+1 with what Kiddman has said about horn speakers in general, my most enjoyable listening exsperiences have come from Horn speakers through out the years of past, to this day, I believe the folded surround woofer's has the most taunt accurate bass I ever listened to, even over these over thought out designs of today, even Cerwin Vega got this one right years ago along with JBL, who still makes a folded woofer design for home audio these days?, last time I used one of these, it was PA speakers that was made for the keyboards on stage, best mid range ever, LOL, most of the mid range came out of the 15" woofer along with the bass, vocals were incredible real sounding,mated with world class High end audio componets and cables, spooky!
Does JBL get a bad rap?
For years, all one heard regarding almost any JBL product, especially vintage consumer grade products was that they were all boom(bass) and sizzle( highs). I feel this is an unfair generalization. Surprisingly, I find much of their budget minded gear(80s-90s) actually soft in the treble and very non-fatiguing(titanium laminate tweeters). I also have experienced the L100T and found them fairly well balanced and nuetral. The midrange does lack some realism magic especially on vocals but so do other highly touted speakers. In short, I am a little late to the game in regards to the JBL, but as a mainstream maker I am impressed. And that doesn't even take into account their 4xxx studio monitors which are highly regarded. Back me up jbl fans!
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There is a very old Audio Critic issue where a Disney engineer gave advice and schematics for what he felt to be the best speaker you could buy or make. All of the drivers were JBLs. He felt they made the best drivers in the business but (at the time) weren't so good with their crossovers, or something like that. When I saw this review http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-450&lang=en of the JBL 4429 I lusted for it for the longest time. :-) All the best, Nonoise |
Hi Nonoise, that was a great!, I enjoyed your link, It appears this speaker might have been the beginning of the JBL synthesis model line of today?, the appearance is strikingly exactly like the cost no object JBL speaker line of today, check out the similiarity's of the JBL-DD Everest 67000 speakers and the JBL 4429 you are speaking of, Happy Listening. |
Hello Audiolabyrinth, The JBL 4429 is actually one of their current offerings but you can only order them from Japan. As to which came first, the 4429 or the Everest, I can't say. The speaker and article about the Disney engineer was this one: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_19_r.pdf Scroll down to pg (pdf) 24 and the article begins there. Sorry if it was confusing referring to one article and providing a link to another of a different speaker from the same maker. Either way though, I'd still like to hear that 4429. All the best, Nonoise |
Hi Nonoise, not ever knowing about the JBL 4429 monitors, I thought that they were a blast from the past speaker, My mistake, I am glad you said that the 4429 is a current offering, now Dave_72 says something about the 4365's, man, this is very interesting!, I am learning about some new models here, the both of you got my intrigue going good!, tell me more!, what does the 4365's look like?, post a link?, cheers. |
Audiolabarynth, here is a link to the 4365, which seems to be the bigger brother to the 4429: http://eu.jbl.com/jbl_product_detail_eu/studio-monitor-4365.html Again, seemingly available everywhere except here in the U.S. All the best, Nonoise |
Thankyou Nonoise for the link, I am shocked to see that JBL is making what all of you call pleated surrounds, in the pro audio world when I was making money as a musician, this is called a folded woofer, I am also supprised to see Kiddman have the same opinion as I do, believing that a folded woofer has the best bass, also, Dave_72, I did not know that your s4700s has the folded woofers, Kiddman, I do not understand why the Everest DD-67000 does not have this folded woofer design, what is your opinion as to why not?, is it something to do with power handling? |
Audiolabyrinth, the 67000 does have a pleated surround! The 66000 did not, but the 67000 does. Measurements I have seen show lower distortion at low frequencies for the pleated surround version of two identical woofers, one with pleated and one with rolled. It is only at higher frequencies, where folks want to run a woofer way up, that rolled surrounds were better, at a cost of higher distortion in the lows. But then rolled surrounds took over, they seemed to be looked at as the "modern, latest cool thing", even though in some models with low crossovers pleated still should have been used. If you are crossing over at 1khz or below pleated is open to you, assuming a good design. Note that on the Westminster model by Tannoy also went to pleated surrounds years back, after using rolled surrounds on that model. |
wow!, Thankyou Kiddman, I did not know that the 67000 has folded woofers-pleated, as a matter of fact, I could hear less distortion with deep bass the last time I owned a woofer design such as this, that is why I said that I liked the design better, that is really great news that the pleated woofers are making a comeback, better believe that I am getting the folded-pleated woofers in my next JBL speakers, Kiddman, do you think JBL would sell the pleated woofers to go into the 66000 speakers?, you know, replace the one's that are in the 66000 speakers, would it work kiddman? cheers. |
I don't know if they would sell the woofers. Beyond that, though, the woofers would have to be padded down as the bass is too strong if just a woofer switch is done, there seems to be a difference in efficiency of the new and old woofers. This was easily accommodated in the 67000 as it has all new crossover boards for all of the drivers. |
also, Dave_72, I did not know that your s4700s has the folded woofers Yep. Check out the pics out there via google images. Again, the top of the line studio monitor, the M2, uses the same woofer that the S4700 does! The M2 is considered the best sounding JBL product out there regardless of price. Only the Everest competes with it. But it's only available in packages with DSP and ampiflication either from Crown or Levinson. The M2s have no internal crossover. |
I believe JBL does not get the recognition they deserve here in the U.S.A., I mean, here on Audiogon, if you say you have JBL speakers, they believe they are junk audio, they blast me for tring to tell them anything about how much better the JBL's are than what they have when they ask what speakers are great because they are in the market to buy new speakers, my question is how much better is the Everest 67000 speakers compaired to the K2 9900's? |
Good question. I haven't heard both side by side, so I can't give you a definite answer on that one. Just going by memory, however, the Everest is more dynamic, transparent, and more authoritative than the K2s. The K2s are no slouch, but I believe they are a bit overpriced, as are the S4700s that I use. However, it's pretty well known that JBL slashes prices quite a bit, and I was offered to buy a pair of new K2s for half off the retail price. Anyway, I don't think you can go wring with either one, but if you can swing a good deal on a pair of Everests, then by all means go for it! |
Audiolabyrinth, imo the S9800 and S9900 weren't even as good as the previous generation K2's, specifically the M9500. There were some minor issues with the low frequencies but my main issue with them was the lack of tweeter integration. They always stood out when I heard them. The DD67000 is designed and made to be a K2 and for the best since the M9500. I would have them if I didn't own the M9500 and other horns. They're really good! david |
The used market for the 66000 here on audiogon looks appealing, the thing is, I do not like the battery scheme for the cross-overs, it would seem if the battery's were half charged this may effect the over all sound?,Dkarmeli, how does the 66000 compaire to the M9500 you are talking about?, Kiddmann, Is it worth it to get a pair of the 66000 speakers on the used market over the K2's and other JBL's that are not the 67000 speakers?, The 66000 used market speakers are more in my budget than the 67000 speakers, do these speakers ever sound bright?, considering that they have 40 khz top range. |
Audilabyrinth, First, 66000 & M9500 have a similar sound and sonic signature. Of course there are differences but sonically I don't see them make or break either speaker. Visually I like both but the DD66000 is a stunner, a real classic beauty. The M9500 is more utilitarian in appearance but still quite pleasant. The 66000 has a smoother midrange and the addition of the super tweeter adds a feeling of extension and air on top. The M9500 has the better bass, I haven't had a 67000 in my room to comment on. You shouldn't worry about the batteries in xover, just check them and change them every 3-4 years. I have them in the M9500 too. Here's a link to a brief history of the K2, S9500 & M9500. http://audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/k2.htm You can also go to my System link, I have the M9500 in the near field setup. david |
Macrojack, what you're asking if properly answered in detail will fill many pages. Briefly, I'm familiar enough with 3 of the 4 brands to confidently tell you that bar the S9800 which I don't like, they don't even come close to a JBL K2! david Disclaimer, I'm a dealer but don't sell any of these brands and I have no horse in this race. |
DKarmeli, wow!, what a fricken kick ass link!, heritage on the Everest JBL speakers too, I am in your debt, thankyou!, accordinally to Kiddman, the 67000 Everest is a substantial departure increase in performance over the Everest 66000 speakers David, Kiddman knows alot about these two speakers, he owns both or had the 66000, I do know he owns and uses the 67000 speakers now, I have talked to him in the past, he can tell you the attributes of everything 67000, I hope he chimes in to you about these fine JBL speakers, cheers. |
Hi DKarmeli, when I get ready, I am pairing one of the Everest models with a modded Krell 700 cx, this would be fun to hear, major slam!, I already have some vintage JBL L-7 speakers that I modded, the krell and these are excellent combo, so going from these to likly the 66000 speakers should be an exsperience to behold!, cheers. |
Ok, thanks Dkarmeli. As just about everyone knows, I currently use the S4700s. It's not a bad speaker at all! Pretty damn good even. But they need a lot of break in time. They weren't very good right out of the box. Also, they're very sensitive to equipment changes and quality of said equipment. If you use a cheap receiver or amp/preamp with these, you're gonna be disappointed. So, they're very revealing. The upshot is that they're easy to drive. You can use a lower powered Class A amp with no problems. Also, they are not too sensitive to placement and they sound great off-axis. So yeah, it's a good solid choice in a high end speaker, imo. Sure, you could do better (at a higher price though,) but you can definitely do worse. At the current list price ($15k) they are a bit overpriced, but from what I understand, there's some great deals on this model as well as the rest of the Synthesis line out there. |
