search avsforum.com for "ValhallaPC" |
If you do a deeper search, you'll find that ERS cloth usage has to be used very carefully. In general, I've read that using too much ERS can actually " throw some of the baby out with the bath water". Trial and experimentation is required to fine-tune the sound where you use the product. |
I've had great success in using it wrapped around speaker terminals, interconnect terminations and inside CD player right above transport. Also wrapped around powercord plugs.
This stuff definitely cuts out the digital glare and harshness from your digital components. Plus lowers the noise floor.
It is a tweek that truly works!! |
ERS cloth is best used as a dusting rag for the CD/DVD player. It is like putting a blanket on a hot surface. Heat is the #1 reason for equipment failure. It does nothing for EMI, verified by meters around the world. We once used 5-sandwiched layers of it and did not drop EMI signal by even 1db. Worst yet, is that at "best" it reflected 1db back into the source... kind of defeats the purpose of in-or-out shielded appliance. I still suggest listening to equipment without re-injecting distortion. You can read more about this under the "theory" page on Audiav's website. Please, for the sake of the audio community and it's actual role in legitimacy, do not fall prey to Music Direct's eloquent spins. The best thing to do is use anything but ERS cloth (unless dusting)... many tweaks could help you- namely anti-vibration and anti-magnetism. EMI is a concern due to the processing chips on the board, but unless your chassis is made of plastic or a top-load that has not been properly designed, the disc player may not be a culprit for EMI shielding. There ARE redeeming traits to may of the technologies out there, but you should do the testing yourself and not jargon from those that have not tested it. Go and buy an EMI/EMF meter for $150+ and see what happens before & after you apply the ERS cloth. If nothing happens, then your meter is working fine :) |
Hi, it seems that almost everyone is encouraging the use of these ERS cloths and the like (for example Shakti stones). Imho the use of this kind of ERS absorbers most of the time reduce the "musicality" of a system. With musicality I mean a kind of texture (might be a form of noise) that makes the sound somewhat more... fluid. This is analogous to dither with digital sound reproduction.
Chris |
I have never used it and when it comes to investing money into tweeks sometimes you need to use common sense. I did a search on this one and here are some links with information for you to decide- at $20 pr sheet I guess it might not hurt too much to try huh?
http://www.stereotimes.com/acc030903a.shtml
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/ers_cloth_e.html |
Dazzdax, that is certainly my experience. |
This is in response to Audiavreseller thread. Anybody who's been in audio any length of time knows that you cannot measure with meters or anything else what tweaks do for a system. It is what you hear with your ears that determines
whether or not something makes a difference or not,ie; why do amps with quote unquote poor specifications sound better than amps with so called excellent specifications!
Why? because you can't hear specifications!! This has been
proven some time ago. |
Dazzdax, I think your right to a point. I have a bunch of this stuff and it's so important where you put the stuff. Some places it is bad and others transforms things. Try putting some by your circuit breaker....amazing!!! |
Freemand, I have yet to find a good place but have not tried the circuit breakers. Where do you put it? Just on the front of the panels? |
tbg,
I have some inside but don't usually recommend people playing inside breaker box. I have good results taped inside the front door and on top of box around where all the lines come in. I also have about 4 pieces inside my wall behind my outlets in my theater that plugs my system in.
Try concentrating the ers around ac and digital. Around my amp and processor is where I have had bad results though there is a little there. I also just place a sheet on top of all my cables that plugs into my dvd player.
Power conditioner is another good place. Just look at the BPT 3.5 which is loaded with ers and that conditioner is solid in its price point. |
Thanks to the serious posters. I'm surprised this thread is also recieving frivolous responses. I posted it feeling knowledgeable and serious comments would make good reading and hopefully better sound. It is an inexpensive product; may well have merit. To those who know feel they know we're all ears. To others; Everyone, even children know 'if you have nothing good to say-say nothing'.w'wink-n'nudge. (Manners are fun, aren't they) |
Thanks, Freemand, I have one sheet of ERS and will concentrate on the circuit breakers and the box. |
Tbg, let me know your results. Try your power conditioner too. |
I posted (2) links with reviews on this product- they are both interesting reading, I think that this product is worth looking at. Again I have not tried them but I am going to. The following came from a review at StereoTimes, I think these guys write some very good reviews.
"The Stillpoints ERS cloth is a significant product. Its potential in audio design from loudspeakers to electronics is limited only by the imagination of the designer. My interest is piqued to hear new audio products incorporating the ERS material. Since the most common complaint about the sound of existing systems is harshness and artificial brightness, lowering EMI/RFI's contribution to that complaint is a genuine boon. Congratulations to Stillpoint's Paul Wakeen and Larry Jacoby for bringing such an effective and inexpensive product to market. Thanks guys. Highly recommended."
http://www.stereotimes.com/acc030903a.shtml |
Vx700, all that I can say is proceed slowly as your experience may be like mine. With the exception of one cut up sheet, I sold all of my ERS cloth. I am going to try Freemand's suggestions today or tomorrow. |
Reply Tbg:
Thank you my friend, as you said I would definitely proceed slowly, 1 piece is more than enough to try, the thing is for me- the best improvements are typically room treatments or new equipment. Most tweaks (for me) are such an insignificant improvement that I dont spend money on them; I would rather spend the cash on a CD, SACD or DVD.
But some of our fellow members enjoy tweaking, so for those that do I think this is one worth looking at and I support there attempt at this tweak as opposed to some of the snake oils out there (like polished river rock stones) |
Vx700, if by polished river stones, you mean Brilliant Pebbles, I can say that in at least some circumstances, I have found them useful. I am using none now and I am using no ERS cloth now. In my experience I cannot place the ERS cloth as anything other than snake oil, but this apparantly is not the case with some other people. |
Tbg- HA!! I hear you buddy!
Good listening |
Freemand, I installed two pieces of ERS within the panel feeding my dedicated lines. I put a 5 x 6" piece in the top above the breakers and a 4 x 6" piece on the door above the circuit breakers themselves.
I would not describe the effect as substantial, but it is very worthwhile. The image is higher, the bass more defined, and the noise floor lower.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. This is the first instance I have had supporting the benefits of ERS paper. |
Tbg,
COOL! It's intersting that others find similar results. When you get away from the amp amp and preamp and to the ac. There are great benefits from what I have experienced.
I have about 5 sheets on my breaker box for now and plan on putting more later. It seems like ac always can use this stuff. When I put 4 sheets behind my wall feeding my system It kept getting better and I plan on trying more sometime later. |
Freemand, I have to withdraw my earlier observations. Last night I was listening and noticed that my music had lost its life and pace. It was boring, undynamic, lacking in ambience, with a one note bass. I kept trying to figure out what had gone wrong and could not conceive of what it might be.
While preparing for bed it hit me--the ERS that I put on my breaker panel. First thing this morning I listened again to the last cd I had played. Afterwards, I removed the ERS and relistened. Bingo! The life was back! This is all consistent with my previous experiences with the ERS, but I don't know why I initially got favorable results. Since the panel is on the other side of my house, perhaps the initial impact is favorable but ultimately gets to the system. I really don't know, but my ERS goes back into the closet. |
Tbg, It is strange how so many can have great results and others not.
Where do you live? Country, small town, Big city??
Dan |
Dan, I live in a medium sized city where I seldom hear noises such as acs going on. The voltage is an almost constant 124.3 volts.
I have always been attracted to the speed of components, especially speakers. Unlike many how, as judged by a recent piece in TAS, my whole focus is on realism of the reproduction, not just how musical it is. To me it cannot be musical unless it closely enough corresponds to the real thing. |
I heard the same thing tbg did - loss of life esp. in upper freqs, a certain "hard to put yer finger on it" a-musicality. Once I felt like I was able to identify the peculiar thing the ers paper did to the sound, I went so far as to place some on the building transformer - outside the building. Again I heard the ers stuff affect the sound (negatively). I was also able to hear the ers stuff hurt the sound by just placing a sheet on the coffee table in the room.
YRMV :-)
Cheers |
Geoffkait, just on a coffee table in the room! Maybe I need to get what I have out of the room. |
tbg - maybe so... maybe out of the entire house just to be on the safe side....
Cheers |
Tpg, I ask the location cause big cities can cause issues. I live near huge radio towers that create big issues in my system. Perhaps, what I am benefiting from is reducing all the noise from the towers which proves better results then the negatives of applying it. If I would move up north of here in northern minnesota (you know) I may get some of the chocking out the life, but maybe the huge towers and big city are whats chocking out life and the ers is to the rescue.
I know that I already have about 20 sheets, 8 shakti stones, 400 ferrite cores spread around my house and garage among other things. The noise floor keeps dropping and cymbals become more brassy, and natural.
If I move south on a ranch like I'm thinking, I realize I will have a flood of this stuff that I wont need.
Tbg, your focus of creating a real sound may be the right track. I think some of us, when designing are systems are actually heading down the wrong path of the sound they are trying to create. They create what may sound good to their ears, though that may not be accurate for realism of reproduction.
I use drums and cymbals in music to create a natural sound in my system as I am a drummer.
Geoff, I am not surprised by the results of placing a sheet on the table. I have heard of guys lining their room walls with a large roll of this stuff. |
I have found that ferrous metals seem to reduce low frequency noise while non ferrous metals seem to reduce high frequency noise. Both types of metals seem to reflect one or the other of these frequency bands back into the device that is trying to be shielded. To much of a good thing may become a bad thing. So I have found it very important to mechanically couple all my electronics to ground so as to releave the influence of noise in general.
I have two ac main panel boxes located in my audio room. One box is dedicated to the system only. Both of these boxes are behind a decorative panel lined with long hair sheeps wool..at the 1st reflection point. I will remove the ferrous cover and listen and report any difference either attached or not. Ferrous metal will bend and distort field lines, though maybe not in a negative way with the ac mains. Tom |
Has anyone tried on Video? |
ERS cloth not looking worthwhile at all from this post. Any scientific types have any comments? Noise reduction in CD/DVD players is so worthwhile. |
Psacanli, I think that it reveals that at least in some systems there is an unfortunate side effect given our present capabilities to reduce noise. |
I thought surely there would be applications inside DVD/CD players; especially since the video and display being turned off are such a benefit to CD sound on a Toshiba SD9200 for example. The improvement must be due to reduced noise and 'if' that ERS does what they claim(and obviously some manufactuers have bought in)there must be uses in that digital environment. Anyone out there know anyone involved in the industry who might clarify things? |
Lately, I’ve been upgrading my fuses with the Synergistic Research Black and Audio Magic Super. As a DIY experiment, I wrapped a 1/3" sliver of ERS paper around a large stock fuse in my digital re-clocker. It did help lower the noise floor. Using 5/8" of the ERS paper around the same fuse killed the dynamics. This tweak is definitely not as good as buying a premium fuse but it’s a lot less expensive - assuming that you have remnants of ERS paper lying around.
|
Try putting the ERS cloth over the breakers in the breaker box. |
