Avguru, you jump to conclusions when you state: I know you are sitting back smugly waiting for
me to eat crow... This couldn't be further from the truth. I was simply trying to offer you an option, at your request, while also including my experience with the EMC 1-UP SE. It's clear from your resistance to the Exemplar 2900 illustrated by your distrust of the 6Moons review that you don't expect much from the Denon. That's OK. It won't hurt my feelings. But, you clearly favor the DV-50, and while you ask for options, you also dismiss them out of hand. So, I will gracefully bow out of this thread. Best of luck on your journey. Have fun! |
Avguru and 711smilin, I, for one, hope you two get together to A/B the Exemplar and/or APL Denon 2900 and the DV50. I think it would be very interesting to read your individual comments about this comparison. Please keep us posted. |
Avguru, just FYI, here's a link to the 6Moons Exemplar Denon 2900 review, where the reviewer compared the redbook performance of the Exemplar Denon 2900 to the Reimyo CDP-777, which is considered by many to be the best redbook player made today. The Exemplar is said to be nearly equal to the Reimyo, for $10,000 less. |
Um...I'm going to humbly point again to the Exemplar Denon 2900 (or 3910), which is in the price range of the DV-50 (actually $2000 less for the 2900), and has redbook playback that compared extremely favorably to the Reimyo CDP-777 in the 6moons review. I know you're prejudiced against the Denons because of the build quality and parts content, but you owe it to yourself to get together with 711Smilin and hear one. You may forget all about the "build quality". By the way, I also owned an Empirical Audio modded EMC 1-UP SE. The EA modded EMC 1-UP addressed all the negatives you mentioned in your earlier post about the EMC 1-UP. The Exemplar 2900 beats it. |
You guys are greyhounds chasing the rabbit around the racetrack. The greyhounds NEVER catch the rabbit.
But, at least they're having fun while they're running.
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Guys, Jayctoy's machine, and the machine Dan Wright of www.modwright.com modifies is the Sony DVP-9000ES DVD/SACD player from a year or two ago. It is not a current production model.
Jayctoy, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Gosh, and I remember just a few months ago when the Siltech wire upgrade was the must-have Exemplar tweak.
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Exemplar does not have balanced outputs. |
Mgottlieb, yours was a very cogent response. There is no doubt transport quality matters. A modded one box machine with a superior transport should outperform just about anything, and it's an intriguing possibility.
I believe the magic of modding is in what it can do for a "budget" machine...as far as bringing it up to world class reference standards on par with $14,000 competitors. Those willing to spend $4000 on a modded player, even with its inferior transport, can own a machine that rivals, and some say bests, players costing triple. That is the benefit of modding as I see it. |
I've owned highly modified CD and/or Universal players from APL,
Modwright, Empirical Audio and Exemplar...with and without tube
stages. My system has evolved from all solid state to all tube. I have also
heard state-of-the-art solid state CD players in 100% solid state
systems. To my ears, in my system (both 100% solid state, 50/50 solid
state/tube, and 100% tube), CD/Universal players with tube output
stages convey three dimensional, holographic soundstages that cannot
be matched by 100% solid state machines. |
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Guidocorona, are you going to purchase any of these Esoteric products, or are you just poking the hornets nest with a long stick? |
Guidocorona, it's a plot. The old "planned obsolecence" as perfected by the Detroit auto industry. We taught the world well, yes?
Buy something and be happy. You'll never catch the rabbit on the rails.
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Bob.
First thread answered on Audiogon and that's what you have to offer?
Does that mean you don't believe 711smilin's comments carry any weight? You don't agree? Please feel free to add to the discussion beyond the sarcasm.
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I don't know what's best. I only know what I've owned and heard in my system...Underwood Shanling T200, Modwright 999ES, Empirical Audio EMC 1-UP SE, Marantz SA-14, APL Philips SACD1000, Exemplar Denon 2910, and now the APL Denon 3910. To my ears the APL 3910 is the winner: musical, dynamic, airy, detailed and holographic.
Did I mention holographic?
There may be something that sounds better, but I haven't heard it. |
Let me ask you Chicago Shoot-out guys a question. If and when this ever occurs, what is it going to tell you about what any given machine is going to sound like in your personal systems? Isn't it conceivable that the machine that is crowned the King of the 2005 Winter/Spring Chicago Digital Shoot-out may not be the best in every system? I mean, as it is I'm willing to bet the differences are going to be minimal, and one's preference is going to come down to a matter of personal taste.
That's why I'm following this thread with a big grain of salt.
I've been priviledged to be involved in a couple of listening session during the past four months which compared only two SOTA source machines per session. Each session lasted four hours (not be design), and I think the participants would agree that the results, while fascinating, were certainly not conclusive during such a "short" audition. You guys and gals are in for a serious marathon of critical listening, and I'm dubious that anyone's attention span will be able to sustain the barrage.
It's fun. But it's also a tad gruelling. I can't begin to imagine what a session involving four to six machines is going to be like.
It seems to me that at least some of you could've auditioned a couple, if not several, of these machines in your own systems by now, and trusted your own ears to tell you what you liked.
IMHO... |
Avguru, I believe if the system we're listening to is transparent enough we will definitely be able to hear general and sonic characteris/differences between each unit and what one unit does better (or worse) than another. Agreed. I will say this (and your opinion may differ). If I am fortunate enough to get a really great piece of gear that's a reference piece and is known to have set a sonic standard in its class (i.e Halcro 58 amp, etc), even if it did not sound good in my system I'd probably abandon that system and re-tool it around that piece. I disagree, only insofar as this has the enormous potential to lead to a never-ending cycle of re-purchasing and non-fulfillment. When do you decide that enough is enough? After you've obtained the Halcro (whatever) and purchased pieces to compliment it, and when the next "statement" piece comes along do you start all over? When does it end? Knowing how meticulous you are in your quest (no criticism intended here), you will spend years re-tooling a system that will never be satisfactory. Are you suggesting you're going to build a system around your digital source? This is, after all, what this thread is about. If that is your method, then I believe you are on the road to disaster. Digital changes too rapidly, and in six months what is state of the art now will be outdated. It's your path if you so choose. But, I'll take the other fork in that road. |
So, c'mon guys...why so politically correct? This was labelled a Shoot-Out for weeks and weeks, and no one is coming forth and publishing their scorecards and/or thoughts about each players' strengths and weaknesses?
You aren't really going to let this ride by saying "they are all so close and all have their strong points", are you? We vicarious participants would like to hear what the strong point and weak points of the players were. Not so much to determine a "winner", but to know what the flavors are.
So...please start reporting...
:)
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Eric, thanks for your candor! That's exactly what we're looking for. I have been one of those who strongly advocates listening in one's own system. Certainly, I read reviews and digest their comments as guideposts to what I might like. Then, I try to listen to the component in my system. You asked: How, if you are not a reviewer, are you going to get three or four or six top-notch universal players into your system for a lengthy test period? Modders don't loan out their equipment to the world at large. I suppose you could buy two at at time, A/B them and then unload one at a loss here on Audigon. Actually, for over a year I have done just as you mentioned...own a couple players...A/B them...and keep the "winner". It's not an ideal method, but it allows one to listen in one's own system and keep the more synergistic component. Thanks again for your comments. |
I've heard both. The Marantz can't begin to keep up with the Modwright. Not even close. A laugher.
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Isn't it possible that a good product, like cream, rises to the top of a discussion? Especially when it's being mentioned by a new listener? Why does repeatedly talking about a product automatically smack of conspiracy? We gotsta lighten up here folks! :)
All we have in these threads are our shared experiences. When we no longer feel the freedom to exchange ideas, then the forums die. Simple.
Kumbaya.
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Bon, I was going to save this for the "Cheap Tweaks" thread, but you've actually mentioned my sure fire cheap tweak for interconnect contact enhancer -- Anchovy Oil. I won't put the Anchovy Oil on my tube pins though, because I can't get the fishy smell out of the house after it burns in the tube sockets. |
Guido, that's an old review from July/August of 2004. While it's a glowing review, I have two issues with it. First, Mr. Levi claims the Modwright Sony 999ES to be the best digital playback available as of the time of writing the article. Has Mr. Levi heard every digital playback system available? If so, he gets around and has extraordinary access to equipment. Second, this review is 8 months old. Much has changed since then in the world of digital and digital modification...the APL Denon 3910 with Upsampler for one, and the Exemplar Denon 3910 for another.
It's food for thought, but it's stale.
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Bon, I'm not going to get into another debate about whether the APL Denon 3910 is better than the Modwright 999ES. Some people hear one thing and prefer it over another, and others prefer something else. I have heard both the Modwright Sony 999ES and the APL Denon 3910 in my own system. There was no question that the APL conveyed more information from top to bottom. Some might prefer the more romantic nature of the Modwright, and some might prefer the accuracy of the APL. To each his own.
My point to Guidocorona was simply that the review of the Modwright 999ES is somewhat outdated.
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Tbg, has stated over and over again his preference for the Exemplar Denon 3910, and his predjudice against the APL Denon 3910. Why would Alex send him a machine? Based on Tbg's previous posts on the topic, the outcome is almost certain.
Also, if you've ever spoken or emailed Alex regarding demo units, you know he doesn't have any. He can barely keep up with orders from his paying customers. As I understand it, the unit heard by the San Diego Audio Society was Pete Watt's personal machine and Alex delivered it for the listening session. It was not a demo unit. |
Tbg, I was certain in your earlier posts you had said you were positive the APL Denon 3910 could not be better than the Exemplar Denon 3910, and therefore you were not interested in hearing the APL. I could do a search and find the quote, but I'm fairly certain I'm remembering this correctly. The statement made an impact on me.
Nevertheless, it's good to hear you would be open to listening to both players in your system, provided you could find a way to be impartial...tough to do without a double blind test.
Thanks for keeping an open mind. If I had the opportunity to hear the Exemplar Denon 3910 in my system, I'd certainly do it.
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