Upgrading the whole thing?
For me that would cost $70,000.
(and if I actually HAD $70K I would blow it on MBL 101e speakers!)
So I have to say it is a totally impractical notion.
Plus upgrading the whole thing would always be all around minor upgrades. Instead of worthwhile major ones.
Took me eight years to upgrade my speakers.
Almost twenty to upgrade from my old DAC. (though I had tried a new $2,300 one in 2010, only to return it, as my old DAC was just as good in my system)
Now that I have a better digital sound than my analog..
I am daydreaming of buying a $12,000 phono box to even the score.
I could go for a lateral move, but WHY?
(it being what I think is my next needed upgrade. Though a better TT might.. I think the phono box would do more and THEN a new TT and cart.)
If I would have 'upgraded everything' I would have a pair of Magnepan 3.7i instead of the 20.7 I do own now.
And a new amp I never really needed, as my old amp is just great.
I would have Ygg from Schitt instead of the Marantz.
|
Years ago I would have agreed speakers are the number one ’problem’ as far as what is the most difficult to get right. But once up in a ’better’ speaker zone, the electronics become a huge part of "where is the crap coming form?" The speakers already can let the bad noises pass right on through!
So once you have high quality speakers, (or even just decent ones) then the electronics become a huge issue, since now, you can hear their faults! (back in the 1980’s I could scoff at folks touting huge $$$$ amplifiers, thinking are they nuts?. But NOW, I understand the reason for them.)
Previous to my Magnepan 3.6 speakers, the speakers covered most of the little faults of the electronics. (Or I did not have the skill to see them clearly?) With the 3.6 those faults in the electronics became more evident. So the quest to find and fix those faults in the electronics became the goal.
(For myself I actually upgraded several items at that time, and bought some top notch power conditioning. But I read others buying 3.6 and wondering why they sound bad.. IMO It is the electronics crud they could not hear before!!!)
With my new 20.7 Magnepans much better midrange and overall tonal balance, I can now hear the electronics like never before, so can appreciate finding the right gear even more. Thus my ease at adding a $7000 digital bit of kit. It just does the right things via listening to it. I doubt I would be able to hear a lot of what the Marantz SA-10 does ’better’ without the speakers I now have.
And that brings up another point of upgrading.
If I buy stuff which is way better one at a time, how can I know it will ’be there’
ie can do way better than I can currently hear from my system!
Like the Bryston BP-26 preamp I have. So far it really does clearly have what it takes to let the goodness through! And it just (after all these years) got mentioned in TAS as being worthy of buying. So in a way I 'lucked out’ buying it on faith? that it could cut the grade in the future.
These are the problems it is hard to ’know’ how to work around and solve when one cannot just throw money at it endlessly! So upgrading everything a little, vs going big one item at a time, the work to find that stuff which is going to 'last' or going to be able to show it is worthy when it gets combined with other better gear on down the road...
|
""
If you evaluate and upgrade only one component at a time, you can avoid a lot of missteps.""
That is true.
But how do you KNOW which component to upgrade?
Are you guessing at which one is the worst sounding of the bunch?
Perhaps you are dead certain which one is the worst?
Choosing the cheapest/oldest one?
Picking one you want to replace because you saw a shiny new 'better' one in a review?
Perhaps because you have a long term plan and you just go on down the list as you can afford to upgrade the next item on the list?
You happened by accident to see something for sale at a great price and decided 'Why not'?
You have a BIG pile of money to burn and buy your dream components?
(I think in my 50 years as a person who owns stereo equipment.. I have used all of the above as reasons.)
But what is YOUR methodology?
|
""
it can frankly be impossible to tell""
I think there are ways to figure it out, just trying to find what folks think are the ways?
In fact I also think it is a great challenge to find the weakest link.
Part of it is knowing what one really wants to have 'more of'..or 'less of'.
Like less grain. or more clarity, greater dynamics, less treble harshness... greater warmth, less wooly bass ... etc.
I can see where if folks are unsure what they really want.. it would be impossible.
|
Thanks Ivan, great posts.
The way I consider ’the weakest link’ as a bottleneck.
All
the other bits could sound better, but the weakest link is holding the
rest back, since the bottleneck is at the peak of it’s performance. And
if it is replaced with a better bit of kit, the whole rest of the system
can move up, to what is the next block of the component which is doing
all it can, and then is the one holding back the other components,
which if given a chance, could sound better.
And to willemj Agree about speakers.
Disagree about CD playback being superior to vinyl.
I
do confess I have an expensive LP playback setup: Bought here on AgoN’
Kuzma Stabi/Stogi S with a Dynavector 17D3 to the also bought here: ARC
SP-15 phono.
The closest I get to that using CD is a Sony SCD777ES.
My
LP playback is definitely better. Though i do play CDs for ease of use.
(I typically use a eBay $40/$80 max 5 disc changer( (most changers
sound like doggie doo. I found a few models I can enjoy) to my DAC. The
sound is slightly less than the Sony SCD777ES playing CD, but good
enough for everyday use. ’(saving’ the Sony for as long as I can) If I
spent a bit on perhaps a yggdrasil my CD playback might improve? I would
never spend more than a few grand on a CD playback DAC.
|
The discussion has kind of wandered off 'how to find the weakest link'
(in one's current system, to upgrade etc) to a 'what are the components order of importance.' Which has been discussed many many times in other threads. Though the order of importance does matter greatly in how we decide what should be upgraded next. I would like to stick to how to find the weakest link in setup already in use. I agree it is hard to define, but I am hoping for some insights.
timlub, I sold the Adcom preamp years ago! I bought a Bryston BP-26 almost 8 years ago. (when I also upgraded amp and speakers)
|
Thanks timlub,
glad to be back.
Yes I still enjoy my Adcom DA700
I think DACs are constrained by the original specs of The CD format, and the different implementations of chips and oversampling and filters cannot change that limitation by much.
|
I guess Geoffkait has finally slipped up? PC in the post Geoff is mentioning is not PC for powercord but PC for 'personal computer'
|
On my Smartphone I keep a pile of different cites time.
For example it is 3:04 PM here .. but 5:04 AM in Singapore, 10:04 PM in Paris 2:34 AM in New Delhi, 11:04 AM in Honolulu
|
I am waiting for my new speakers as I type this. Two weeks down, about two weeks before they are in my apartment, I expect.
I could also upgrade my amp (Bryston 4B-SST²) to a pair of Bryston 7B3, but i decided to wait and break in the Magnepan 20.7 with my old amp. Get used to the speakers and see if I really think I need a pair of new amps...
|
|
Now, a few weeks after getting the first pair of Magnepan 20.7
Which has a flaw and were replaced with another new pair.(minor issue but replaced, not going into the story here) Now that new pair are about three weeks of use breaking in..
Last week my dealer loaned me a Marantz SA-10 SACD player. I like it so much I am buying one from them. ($7000)
Main thing it brings is better treble and cleaner sound to CD. Plus I can play my other CD players through te SA-10 DAC. I own very few SACD, but play a lot of CDs.
My dealer had told me not to upgrade my amp as it would not much f a difference. I think he is right.
|
