Dan, I agree, the P2 sould be better if it had a continuous run. I guess every design is a sum of strengths and weaknesses.
Syntax and i have tried each tonearm in the same system and pretty much share similar opinions of the sonic differences.
My goal was to offer some descriptions of the two by actual side by side comparisons in my system as opposed to speculation, extrapolation or second-hand opinions.
Maybe it is better to speculate, etc since it fosters debates with no clear winner or loser....
Oh well, in the end if you get a chance give both a listen and see what you like. You may even disagree with our read on these two.
Have fun!!
Andrew |
Aoliviero and Syntax: Have you tried either of the Continuum arms? |
Jfrech, it is not just TP owners. I also own a Basis Vector. I do appreciate that part of the reason for all of those connectors is to provide flexibility. However, what if (for people like me) the owner is going to be using the same cartridge on the same table for many years? That person is not going to be going through iterations with cartridges and other things. Why not offer a more permanent, more simplified solution?
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that eliminating connectors would sound even better.
This is not a dig a Bob Graham. Bob is truly gifted and a really nice fellow who did me solid in the past so I have no interest in trying to put down him or his work. At the same time, I have absolutely no interest here in selling anything to anyone for personal or financial gain.
Dropping the tonearm cable connection down through the plinth or armboard also causes me trouble, but that is probably to the point of being a legacy issue now.
As to tweaking the TP. I think Doug Deacon has pretty much covered most everything in that great thread and others. There is definitely improvement over the stock form to be had by way of some resonance elimination. Remove the damping trough altogether, some remove the entire AS mechanism, etc.
!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!
I did not buy my TP at retail, it was a refurbished arm that I got a great deal on. You probably don't want to go down the path I have taken. Removing the arm rest has questionable benefit. I do not encourage doing this, and you had better find a way to provide this feature if you do remove it. It is probably much wiser to wedge something under the stock arm rest, or have someone hold it while you listen to determine if you can or cannot detect any improvement. |
Jimjoyce25,
I have not tried the Continuum. Halcro has some experience with these.
I would like to try some other arms in the future with some other carts for experiment sake. But lately have been stingy with extra cash!
One thing i wonder about the graham is how much the sheer total mass of the arm contributes to the sound. Does a higher mass create some dampening or mechanical grounding effect? |
I wonder if any of you have given any more thought to the influence of the total weight of the tonearm with respect to dampening. I wonder how much of the dampening occurs in the headshell and arm tube versus the rest of the arm assembly.
I suppose that if the armtube is properly damped, then the rest of the arm mass or dampening proerties is not as critical. However, I would think that if the arm tube is not effectively damped then the mass and material of the remaining assembly plays a greater role.
I have heard the Fidelity Research/Ikeda arms (effective mass aside) are considered as effective as they are due to the sheer mass of the arm.
Also, I have heard from the Triplanar tips that removing the damping trough has sonic benefits. If the damping trough is so far away from the headshell and if the arm tube is effectively damped, why would this make a sonic difference?
Any thoughts? |
Can I answer with another question? Why do Graham arms have damping around the bearing? |
The answer is: because it is black :-) |
But what about the gold trim, Syntax? :-)
Should we also pull the Vector into the discussion about fluid damping?
As far as I know, the TP is the only one of these arms that can actually play very well with no damping fluid. But I wouldn't extend that as an offer as to why one design may be perceived as better than another. In the end, each is a sum of its parts. |
That's for colored reproduction systems :-) |
Dan
What you are getting at is that the arm tube alone does not seem to dampen enough. Which I agree with and was really my point.
Clearly the phantom fluid level, triplanar fluid or not, and triplanar trough or not make differences.
I will say that while the phantom fluid does improve the balance it does not seem to obscure detail.
Question is how much of the detail in music is obscured by the mass of the arm? |
Well it is probably a lot more complicated than all of this!!!
I will stop asking questions and "enjoy the music" as Raul says.
Last Friday night's listening session was quite amazing!!!! |
Grasshopper! You have plucked the pebble from my palm! :-):-)
I agree. It's complicated and I'd rather just listen. I just picked up Jorma's River of Time but haven't had the chance to light up my system for more than a week. I'm shaking like a big dose of Starbucks. |
Seriously, and just on a layman's observation, the application of damping is different in that the unipivot-based design dampens in close proximity of the pivot bearing and the TP damping is farther down the arm toward the cart. Obviously different applications of damping for different stimulus-sesses. (stimulii? :-) )
My personal view is the the damping on the TP was to satisfy those who would prefer a more "musical sound", as I called it back in the day. Everybody's right! Especially me.
|
Dan
Is that Jorma K? Is it acoustic and on lp?
I saw Hot Tuna couple year ago in a small theater. Acoustic and electric. Awesome.
By the way, pick up buddy guy n junior wells Going back to acoustic on pure pleasure if you like the blues. Pretty amazing record |
Yes, Koukonen. Folks who own the CD seem to be very happy with this release and I expect good vinyl from Jorma. I missed Hot Tuna last year when they came around. Thanks for the tip on Buddy and Jr.! |
