Laura Nyro-maybe not the greatest, but a true original & one that helped considerably in widening the arena for women in music. I think her lyrics strike this uneasy balance between music and poetry |
How about,
Pete Townsend
Paul Simon
Elton John & Bernie Taupin
Rogers and Hammerstein
John Philip Sousa
Burt Bacharach and Hal David
Sting
Lennon and McCartney
Irving Berlin
Glen Miller
Benny Goodman
Lou Reed
Paul Anka
Prince: Aka Unpronouncable Glyph guy with large head |
John Lennon, Cat Stevens, Ian Anderson |
1. Billy Joe
2. George Harrison
3. Ira Gershwin |
How can there be more than one "greatest?" If the question is 3 greatest, or 5 greatest, then lists are OK.
The Greatest: Dylan
Runners Up: Richard Thompson, Nick Cave, Iris DeMent |
king David
and Leonard Cohen, and Bialik |
Smokey Robinson
Becker and Fagan
Jesse Winchester
Tom Paxton
Donovan
John Prine
Gil Scott Heron
McGarrigle Sisters
Stan Rogers
Some others for your consideration. |
This is an impossible question!
Who is the most beautiful woman ever?
' depends what day you ask me.
But I will put forth a few names that I believe that by any objective evaluation can not be denied. One of the primary factors I consider essential to be on my list is the songwriters influence on other songwriters and their continuing influence on newer, younger generations of songwriters.
The Gershwin brothers - A great organic blend of lyric and music.
Hank Williams - Heart on his sleeve. Great songs to cry in your beer to. Heartache incarnate.
Bob Dylan - The Picasso of songwriters. How many "periods" has he gone through? Songs about everything in the human experience...and beyond.
Bob Marley - Voice of the voiceless.
Puccini - Soars and pulls the heart strings. Beautiful drama.
Cole Porter - Elegant, smart
Antonio Carlos Jobin - Smooth, sexy, beautiful
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On - An inner-city symphony of 1971 America. Young man back from the war. Strung-out. People,the earth abused.
The songwriter of the love song you hear on your car radio Saturday night when your crusing with your girl by your side. And that song is saying everything that is inside you.
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No mention of David Bowie? He has been one of the biggest influences on rock/pop of the last 30 yrs. And XTC, the greatest underrated act of recent memory.
BUT, nothing has ever touched my soul like a Mozart aria. God sang into this man's ear as he wrote down the notes. |
maybe not the greatest but deserves to be mentioned- Paul Simon |
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Andy Partridge/Colin Moulding (XTC) |
I have looked through this thread and can't find Billy Joel's name...not even once. I find that weird. I know these things are driven as much by personal taste as anything but you'd think once? Well, now it has. I don't know if I would put him in MY top 3 but he is certainly competitive with many of the names in this thread.
anywho...
Beatles music/lyrics/infulence/melody/classics...who could claim more in our lifetime in popular music? How many top 10 hits and classic memorable tunes...too many to number.
Dylan, genius but not popular like Beatles or Elton or Elvis etc. but obviously the musical community thinks he is the beat all to end all
Springsteen -energy/emotion/the story/rock/song
That isn't enough because the creativity of musicians and their unique personalities can't be captured in a one two three...but it is fun thinking about it.
happy listening
cd |
Redwood . . .
Your criteria points to Paul McCartney as much as anyone, doesn't it? Paul was definitely good, but most of his post-Beatles stuff was a bit too bubble-gumish for me.
This brings up another interesting topic. What happens to some songwriters? Do they wake up one day and discover they have lost their creativity? Right now, McCartney (the song writer with more #1 hits than any) couldn't write a good song if his life depended on it and hasn't for the last 20+ years. There are others: Elton John, Dan Fogelberg, etc, etc .
On the other side of the coin, Brian Wilson's, Christopher Cross's, last albums were, in my opinion, their best. |
To be the greatest songwriter of all time, one must be able meet the highest ranking for the following criteria:
1. Write songs with words and melodies that are popular, easily recognizable, and easily sung by masses.
2. Write songs that influence other songwriters or
create a whole new trend in music.
3. Write songs that have a strong influence on society.
4. Write songs that become classics (songs that remain popular for decades or centuries).
While most of the nominations so far are popular, only a handful have met the above criteria. But the question originally proposed was who was the greatest songwriter of all time. OK, OK, let's narrow it to the past century. The clear cut winner in my opinion is George M. Cohan. What other songwriter has received the U.S. Congressional Medal Of Honor for writing songs that positively influenced so many people during both world wars and the depression? |
Kate Wolf, Folk Singer. She was a great-singer/writer. Also,
Alan Jay Lerner & Frederick Loewe, & Oscar Hammerstein II. |
SPRINGSTEEN, Richard Thompson, Brian Wilson. |
Music: Frank Zappa
Lyrics: Tonio K. |
Lots of great choices so far, and I agree with some of them; but I guess we're not sticking to Rock. So, for something different I nominate Franz Schubert and Ernesto Lecuona. |
PINK FLOYD they made some of THE best music IMHO. But i like more of the stuff after syd barrett left the band |
Philefreak, How dare I over look Van the man Morrison. I agree 100%. Love the MAN VAN. |
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I second Van Morrison,also John Lennon,Joni Mitchell,Paul M.,Steve Winwood, and several others. |
Listening to the new one titled "Used Songs" by Tom Waits, a compilation of songs from the early years, reminded me what a great songwriter he is, so I'll add him to my list. |
Obviously, we're just talking about ourselves when we join in these "greatest" lists. For all we know some Calabrian peasant in the pre-electronic age was the "best" songwriter ever. As you said way up there somewhere, most of us are talking about the best (in our opinions) in our lifetimes.
But it is fun to celebrate the genius of those who have impressed or influenced us. We are about the same age, but I really had no appreciation of Buddy Holly until I was an adult. I knew about him primarily from the crash that also took the life of local hero Richie Valens, a minor singer-songwriter not in the same league at all. As a teenager, I heard the Stones doing "Not Fade Away," and that was a revelation, but it was only years later, after a lot of classical music exposure and listening to lots of singers that I really came to a full appreciation of Buddy Holly.
I thought it was a lot of fun when then-VP-candidate Lloyd Bentsen said he liked rock and roll. When the reporter asked him to name a rock and roll artist he liked, Senator Bentsen answered, Buddy Holly. |
Paul,..guess I was eight, or so, when Mr. Holly's plane went down..being from Iowa, we all remember it like people in Madison, Wi. remember Otis and his plane going down in Lake Monona. Anyway, Buddy was one of the very few to have his impact great enough to have a group name themselves after him..ie: the Hollies. Wonder if Bobby Vee would have had a career without sounding like Mr. Holly?
Seems like Buddy Holly song's are so good that no matter who(m) does their cover....it still sounds good. |
You guys have a good point, but, while I acknowledge the greatness of the composers listed by Rayhall, still Buddy Holly was the best composer since Bach, and the best songwriter ever. |
Rayhall,.. could not agree more. My post further up had zip impact on people thinking beyond their own time. It is a bit too bad since most of the late 20th century writers that most above are speaking of..were greatly impacted by those that came before them.
Seems that most are in the 30 to 50 year old range...I guess this same thread a few years from now will bring answers like:
InSync
Madonna
Boyz To Men
Faith Hill
etc... |
Duke Ellington
Jelly Roll Morton
Cole Porter
Scott Joplin
Irving Berlin
George Gershwin
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kern
The following guys were good, but in no way come up to the level of the previous songwriters:
Lennon & McCartney
Bob Dylan
Woody Guthrie
You know, we should all try to get out of our own era and geography a little bit. Nearly all of us have only picked from the twentieth century and most, only from a 30-40 year period within the twentieth century. What about foreign songwriters? What about music from other cultures? What about those from other centuries? Where do Bach, Beethoven and Mozart stand in this list? Remember, although we consider their music classical, it was the popular music of their time and 300-400 years later, we still listen to it. The name of the thread is greatest songwriter of all time, not greatest American songwriter from the last 20, 30, 40 or 50 years who wrote a couple of songs that I like a lot. |
Teams
-Fagan/becker
-Rogers/Hammerstein
-Lennon/McCartney
-Davies/Hodgson
-Waters/Gilmore
Solos
-Brian Wilson
-Sting
-Frampton
-Brothers Gibb
-Maurice White
-Christopher Cross
-Stevie Nicks
-Peter Cetera
-Harry Nilson
-Don Henley
-Robbie Kroger |
Oh ya..Hank of course I mean who hasn't done his songs? Cold cold heart has everybodies name on it.
Townsvanzant personal choice. Guy Clark is amazing the words are ...perfect?Three is not enough
Gram Parsons ,Leonard Cohen,Proffessor Longhair
I mean these guys wrote and could sing?Many more are out there ...these are in my head at the moment |
Bencampbell, I agree. Onhwy61, what about the music of Blonde on blonde and Highway 61. Is this not some of rocks greatest and original tunes? Yea, a bit taken from here and there, but still some of rocks greatest and original tunes. No?
Forever an Onhwy61 fan. |
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Onhwy61-I cannot believe you are serious with that Dylan/tune argument but there's probably been enough Dylan discussion recently...the thread has deviated slightly we were given limited boundaries but on tunes how about Brian Wilson,Paddy McAloon (Prefab Sprout),Jimmy Webb, latter Fleetwood Mac (Nicks/C.McVie/Buckingham),Carole King etc..the list is nearly endless and on more obscure levels Nick Drake,Scott Walker,Todd Rundgren,Suzanne Vega,Rickie Lee Jones......so many......
Oh stuff it,,,Back to Dylan and tunes..Knockin'On Heaven's Door,Mr Tambourine Man,Every Grain Of Sand,Sugar Baby,Jokerman,One More Cup Of Coffee,Lay Lady Lay surely the greatest song ever written about a chicken,can't think of a single Dylan song without a tune.
In fact occassionally one tune would be so good he'd use on about 6 or 7 different songs..... |
Allright! We are bringing in another world of music w/ the last few posts and far more representative of 20th century American music if you ask me. (Don't get me wrong, I love Greg Brown et al...) And Onhwy61 you get an award for mentioning Strayhorn w/ the Duke. He deserves it.
Sincerely, I remain |
My nominations for the three best composers of popular songs are:
1. Antonio Carlos Jobim. (Chega de Saudade, Dindi, Samba de Uma Nota So, Insensatez, Desafinado, Corcovado, Favela, Agua de Beber, Vivo Sohando, Chovendo na Roseira, Aguas de Marco, Amor en Paz/Once I Loved, O Grande Amor, So Danco Samba, Doralice, Meditation, The Girl from Ipanema, etc.)
2. Duke Ellington
3. George Gershwin
After these three, there are many notables: Jerome Kern (All the Things You Are, Yesterdays, A Fine Romance, Dearly Beloved); Irving Berlin (Always, Isn't This a Lovely Day, Blue Skys, Cheek to Cheek); Richard Rogers (Blue Moon, Thou Swell, Bewitched); Cole Porter (Easy to Love, Just One of Those Things, What Is This Thing Called Love, Begin the Beguine); Burt Bacharach; Paul McCartney |
It's always good to hear other peoples musical choices. You may not always agree, but that's not really the point. For instance, as much as I love Bob Dylan - just look at my name - I've never thought of him as a "song" writer. He's rock n' roll's greatest lyricist, but his name doesn't come to mind when I think of someone who wrote great tunes. Something with a melody. Go play the melody of one of his songs on an instrument and see.
My vote for the all-time #1 best songwriter in popular music is William "Smokey" Robinson. Honorable mentions to (in no particular order) Ray Davies, Monk, Willie Dixon, Gershwins, Robbie Robertson, Willie Nelson, Joni Mitchell, Ellington/Strayhorn, Robert Johnson, Rodgers/Hart, Chuck Berry, Kurt Weill, Carol King and the Beatles. |
Clueless - They are just among my favorites, had to add a few of those.
Sincerely I remain,
Tubegroover |
Tubegroover - I Second your nominations Tubegroover. I find it almost impossible to believe that with over 40 posts 2 mentions of Ellington and the Gershwins. And Hoagy too, don't forget he wrote Georgia too, and lots of other wonderful stuff. Stevie Wonder and Lou Reed??? I guess we have to disagree somewhere. Makes me want to look up their catalogue and double check
Well, it's the week-end, take a walk on the wildside.
Tubes Rule!
Sincerely, I remain |
The greatest Songwriters are the ones that write the songs that everyone wishes they wrote or the great singers all want to sing. Favorites are another matter.
Dynamic duos
The Gershwin brothers
Rogers & Hart
Rogers & Hammerstein
Lennon & McCartney
Individual- Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, George M. Cohan (some may debate this but he wrote some memorable songs), Carole King, Stevie Wonder, Lou Reed, Hoagy Carmichael (just because he wrote Stardust) and THE DUKE |
I'm in trouble I don't find Rufus Wainwright depressing at all................................. |
Agree with Guy Clark being up there - but Cold Dog Soup didn't do it for me. I reckon Dublin Blues, Boats To Build and his live album Keepers are his best. But the "experts" argue his best song writing is on Old No. 1. Eric Taylor, Tom Russell and Townes are worth a mention each. How about Tim Hardin, Tom Waits, Nick Lowe.... |
most depressing band? easy. fred and patti smith. try "it takes time" from the sountrack of "until the end of the world." an excellent disc and better lp, BTW (gotta get the german lp). -cfb |
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Well it ain't a band, but my vote for most depressing singer ever has to go to Rufus Wainright son of Louden Wainright and of one of them McGarrigle girls. Whenever my 18 year old daughter plays one of his, I swear I want to listen to some Blind Lemon Jefferson. |
I can't resist these parlor games. For the sake of simplicity, I've ruled out the twin tower tandems of Lennon/McCartney and Jagger/Richards.
Hard to narrow it down to three, so how about these groupings?
Songwriters:
All-time, men's division
Bob Dylan
Neil Young
John Fogerty
All time, women's division
Joni Mitchell
Lucinda Williams
Iris Dement
"Alternative"
Elvis Costello
Marshall Crenshaw
PJ Harvey
"Obscure"
Walter Salas-Humara
Freedy Johnston
Liz Phair
"Cult Heroes"
Townes Van Zandt
Gram Parsons
Alex Chilton
Best Singers
Billie Holiday
Al Green
George Jones
Best Guitar
Richard Thompson
Best Growl
Iggy Pop
Best Hair
Flock of Seagulls
OK, somebody want to start a "most depressing bands" thread?
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Oh yeah! I forgot to mention 2 other best rock-poets:
David Byrne, Pete Sienfield. |
cfb-Yes, I have "Poet" also, quite good. I know TVZ didn't write any of the songs on "Cold Dog", but I thought some of the songs GC wrote on it were about, and a tribute to, TVZ. I also recall an article ( S'phile?) about CDS about a year or so ago re same. But then again, the neurons aren't synapsing like they once used to. Age? Possibly. Posited smack dab in the midst of divorce? Naaahhh :-) |
Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Lennon/McCatrney
David Byrne
Bob Marley |
mes: thanks for your second on guy clark's "cold dog soup" but townes van zandt didn't write any of the songs on that cd. sure you're not thinkin' of "poet-a tribute to TVZ." guy's on that one, too. -cfb |
Comsider the following:
Patti Smith - Horses
Leonard Cohen - Any and all of it
Richard Thompson - Shoot Out The Lights
John Hiatt - Bring The Family
Laurie Anderson
Lou Reed |
Oh, you wanted 3? Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry and Bob Wills. |
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