No, thank you. Was having a problem with 2 boilers chewing up pilot valves mysteriously and it was my research into your problem that led to the Okaya snubbers. Won't be sure if it worked until the valves last for a couple years.
HELP I think I have an electrical issue??
A few months ago I had 2 20amp dedicated lines with hospital grade duplex's installed. All was well with my Bel Canto Ref1000 mono's. Well a few days ago I just got a pair of Genesis m60 tube amps. I was noticing a clicking noise coming through my speakers. I first noticed this when I was just warming up the amps with no source on. Then I also noticed the clicking when a source was on with music playing.
So it turns out that the clicking noise is my electric ignition of my gas furnace, is somehow playing through my speakers (Or maybe its just one of them, not exactly sure yet) This is a very strange and annoying. If anyone has any ideas please let me know!
Tim
So it turns out that the clicking noise is my electric ignition of my gas furnace, is somehow playing through my speakers (Or maybe its just one of them, not exactly sure yet) This is a very strange and annoying. If anyone has any ideas please let me know!
Tim
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Well, unfortunately the fix was short lived, as the heater starting up is just much quieter than before and I could barely hear it. When I tried the paper shredder though, it came through very loud through my speakers. Oh well, I am going to try new amplification in the coming months so hopefully that will fix it, and if not that maybe balanced interconnects will be the way to go for me. |
I know this thread is now almost a year old but I just wanted to give an update as so many people were kind enough to lend a hand and give me some advice with this strange problem that I was having. After having an electrician out and him not being able to do anything to fix the problem. I just figured it was something I had to live with until I went back to balanced interconnects?? Anyhow it was really bugging me so I took off the cover to my panel and looked it over real well. Then I noticed there was 2 wires in 1 breaker?!? For some reason it was difficult to see the other times I took a look. So I moved 1 of the wires to its own breaker and now I cant hear all of the various fans turning on and off in my house. (oven, and bathroom) As well as the furnace ignition clicking several times before it lit! So regardless this has made my night and I just wanted to share, as it only took me just about 1 year to fix this annoying problem! Thanks again to the people that helped me a year ago trying to fix the problem! tmesselt |
No neutral, highly unlikely.... Well yeah, I actually have a neutral coming to my house, there seems to be some sort of sub panel in the rear of my house maybe that is where the neutral is. However it does not seem there is a neutral in my main panel. I will get pics up soon, unfortunately my camera is down, hopefully my camera can do it justice. Tim |
A few days ago I noticed I have no neutral coming in from my meter, it seems to come from the power line to my house but the actual metal pipe that connects my panel to the meter only has 2 power cables and it looks as if there is no room for a neutral in there.No neutral, highly unlikely.... Go outside your house to where the power company's overhead power line attaches to the house. Look up at their cable. You should see 3 wires. 2 insulated conductors and 1 bare conductor. That is if you have a 120/240V service... The bare conductor is the neutral conductor. See if the 3 power company's wires connect to 3 wires coming out of the weather head of your homes electrical service. How about some pictures..... The electrician I had take a look said the houseprob never had one?!Find another electrician! . |
Not sure if this will totally resolve the issue but I am hoping so. A few days ago I noticed I have no neutral coming in from my meter, it seems to come from the power line to my house but the actual metal pipe that connects my panel to the meter only has 2 power cables and it looks as if there is no room for a neutral in there. The electrician I had take a look said the houseprob never had one?! I'm actually away til early next week so when I return I will get the electrician back over and try to come up with a solution. |
First- did you ever try shorting the inputs to the amps to see if this made any difference?I might have missed this? Second - a trick that I picked up from a broadcast engineer friend of mine is occasionally helpful in tracing down this kind of problem - simply plug in a long heavy duty extension cord still rolled up or "hanked" as it came in the package.This basically is a inductor - if the problem goes away - you know the power line is the source - this can also be used to isolate the source of the problem -you keep plugging it in between the wall and different appliances until the noise attenuates - bingo - that's the problem unit. In your case this isn't necessary since you've identified the noise source as the furnace - but if you try this on the amps - that may tell you that the noise is riding in on the power line (probable). |
Hevac1, Thanks for digging into this for me, I am going to start with calling my electrician and make sure the furnace and dedicated circuits are on separate feeds. Hopefully that will take care of it. Also thank you very much for your offer, unfortunately that is a bit out of my means but very nice none the less. Thanks Tim |
Well I talked with one of thier service tech an he said this happened to a friend of his that has a home theater also. He said his friends unit was on the same feed as the power for the home theater so they changed that around so it was not. Then he (this may be an electrical code issue in your area)install at ground rod at the unit and ground it to that instead of the ground to the box. That took care of it. Call an electicain in you area and ask him to make sure your furnace and your sound system is on differant 110 feeds from the 208/230 coming in your house. You could also ask him if he can install a grounding rod. He will know if it is allowed in your area. Ruud factory service around here is Granite Group tel.# 978-458-3200 they were very helpful. They should be able to give you your local reps number. They were not easy to find. No wonder I don't see thier units very often around here. Tell them mikie sent you. LOL Other than seeing your system. this is all I can do. If you have the means I will be happy to come to your location unless you live in the Boston MA. area then I'm around the corner. |
I wasn't serious about Tim digging into this himself. We know the tech won't have any kind of line filter in his truck and it's not likely stocked at the local distributor's either and might have no idea where to look. Unusual stuff, espescially for residential. Tim is more likely to get a shrug and "call somebody else" than a solution, if it does get complex. I'm pathologically not serious. I'm not being serious right now, seriously. |
This still sounds like a faulty ground or miss aliened igniter. I have always had tube equipment as part of my setup. I have never had this problem. Please post the maker of your furnace, Model and Serial Numbers also Style number if available. Carrier & Bryant use style numbers, they are important. Email them if you like. I will call the manufacturer and find out how to repair and or lookup service bulletins if available. I will send you what ever I get but do not try to repair it yourself. WARNING: Gas furnaces can be very dangerous and should only be repaired by a qualified tech. A furnace is NOT a do it yourself product. |
Ngjockey, A word of caution for Tim.... Any tampering/modifying of the furnace wiring could void his manufactures warranty. In most cases the manufacture only warrants the parts. The labor is picked up by the Heating/air conditioning mechanical contractor. It may also release the manufacture of any responsibility to solve the problem. I would not touch the furnace at this time until Tim has exhausted all avenues for the manufacture/mech contractor to solve the problem. Any line filter device installed at the furnace should be installed by the Mech contractor or his electrician/contractor. Jim |
Tim, Good that the gas Dryer did not cause a problem. That is a plus I would think. Before you contact the installer I suggest you do a little homework. I asked you to post who made your furnace and the model number if possible. I spent a little time on Google last night and I found there are others out there with similar problems as you. Check this out...... Quote from Link: FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION Enforcement Bureau Spectrum Enforcement Division 1270 Fairfield Road Gettysburg, Pennsylvania 17325-7245 CERTIFIED MAIL-RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED August 28, 2006 (name withheld) (address withheld) Lebanon, PA 17402 Dear (name withheld): The Federal Communications Commission has received a complaint that your residential furnace ignition system is causing harmful radio interference to an operator in the Amateur Radio Service. The complainant is: (name withheld) (address withheld) Lebanon, PA 17042 The FCC has the responsibility to require that such problems be rectified within a reasonable time if the interference is caused by faulty consumer equipment. Under FCC rules, equipment such as a furnace igniter is classified as an "incidental radiator." This term is used to describe equipment that does not intentionally generate any radio-frequency energy, but that may create such energy as an incidental part of its intended operation. To help you better understand your responsibilities under FCC rules, here are the most important rules relating to radio and television interference from incidental radiators: Title 47, CFR Section 15.5 General conditions of operation. (b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator. (c) The operator of the radio frequency device shall be required to cease operating the device upon notification by a Commission representative that the device is causing harmful interference. Operation shall not resume until the condition causing the harmful interference has been corrected. Title 47, CFR Section 15.13 Incidental radiators. Manufacturers of these devices shall employ good engineering practices to minimize the risk of harmful interference. Title 47, CFR Section 15.15 General technical requirements. (c) Parties responsible for equipment compliance should note that the limits specified in this part will not prevent harmful interference under all circumstances. Since the operators of Part 15 devices are required to cease operation should harmful interference occur to authorized users of the radio frequency spectrum, the parties responsible for equipment compliance are encouraged to employ the minimum field strength necessary for communications, to provide greater attenuation of unwanted emissions than required by these regulations, and to advise the user as to how to resolve harmful interference problems (for example, see Sec. 15.105(b)). The complainant has attempted unsuccessfully to resolve this problem with the furnace igniter and as a result the matter has been referred to our office. The FCC prefers that those responsible for the proper operation of equipment assume their responsibilities fairly. This means that you should resolve the interference caused by the furnace igniter and make necessary corrections within a reasonable time. While the FCC has confidence that most people are able to resolve these issues voluntarily, the FCC wants to make you aware that this unresolved problem may be a violation of FCC rules and could result in a monetary forfeiture (fine) for each occurrence. At this stage, the FCC encourages the parties to resolve this problem without FCC intervention; but if necessary to facilitate resolution, the FCC may investigate possible rules violations and address appropriate remedies. The American Radio Relay League, a national organization of Amateur Radio operators, may be able to offer help and guidance about radio interference that involves Amateur Radio operators. American Radio Relay League Radio Frequency Interference Desk 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111 Tel: (860) 594-0200 E-mail: rfi@arrl.org Please advise the complainant what steps you are taking to correct this reported interference problem. The FCC expects that most cases can be resolved within 60 days of the time they are first reported. If you are unable to resolve this within 60 days, please advise this office about the nature of the problem, the steps you are taking to resolve it and the estimated time in which those steps can be accomplished. If you have any questions about this matter, please contact me at 717-338-2502. W. Riley Hollingsworth Special Counsel cc: FCC Northeastern Regional Director End of quote. FCC Link =================== If you have a 120V AM/FM radio I would set the radio to the AM band, set the radio on a weak station and listen for the ignitor interference. Good chance you will hear it... I would call the installer back and ask him nicely to call the furnace manufacture Tech Support help line and find out if they have had any similar complaints. I would also send along the Link I provided along with any other you may find doing a Google search. At the very least the installer should send one of his techs out to check out the furnace. If the tech does not find a problem nor offers any relief I would then request the installer contact the manufacture of the furnace and request the manufacturer to pay the installer to remedy the problem in what ever manner is needed. The cure might simply be to install an AC line filter on the furnace. |
Doesn't surprize me that the furnace installer didn't come out for free. The suggestions I made in my first post can be above and beyond the manufacturer and code requirements. The installer probably did it right, but it might be better. Be specific: 1) Make sure furnace chasis is properly bonded 2) Add heat resistant ground wire from pilot assembly (not typical) The screws that hold on the pilot are very short and a wire connector will be required. 3) Ensure ignition module is bonded (normal) 4) Bond neutral side control transformer (as opposed to floated) There are filters that can be hard wired into the furnace but you would only require to filter the control circuit/transformer which would be no more than 40VA and not the blower/combustion fans. There are many hard wired line filters/spark quenchers that are available. I'm not dismissing RFI but suggesting tackling the simplest solution first. |
Tim, I have been following this thread with interest. I have two points: 1. Did you say that you had confirmed that your dedicated audio circuit is not on the same hot buss as the furnace? If those two circuits are still on the same hot buss, I would be interested if moving one of them to the other buss solves the problem. 2. A simple passive power conditioner may also solve the probem. In my small cabin, one curcuit feeds my audio system as well as a laptop computer (and refridgerator). The laptop was putting noise on the line simply by being plugged in, and much worse noise when its processors were working. A PS Audio Duet power conditioner eliminated the noise. I first plugged the laptop alone into the Duet and that worked perfectly. I then plugged the amps alone into the Duet and that worked perfectly as well. I run it that way because I can then plug the CD player/DAC into the Duet's other isolated outet. This arrangement isolates the CD player from the amps and allows for the filtering of noise from other things on the circuit (e.g. fridge). Regards, Charlie |
Tim, Installing an IG recept on an NM-B branch circuit will not have any benefit whats so ever. Using a ferrous metal box in place of the plastic box could actually degrade the sonics of you audio system. IG receptacles are mainly used in commercial or industrial buildings where EMI/RFI noise may be present on metallic electrical conduits, building steel structures, metal wall studs, ect, ect. In this case for sensitive electronic equipment a IG recept may be desired. Lets say a customer bought a piece of equipment that states the equipment must be connected to a 120V 20 amp dedicated circuit with an IG NEMA 5-20R receptacle. First off to be a "true dedicated" branch circuit the circuit wiring can not share a conduit with any other branch circuit wiring. So the electrician installs a 1/2" EMT, (thin wall), conduit from the electrical panel to the new recept outlet location. (Distance is short voltage drop is not a problem) For the wire he selects #12 THHN. (1)Black conductor, hot. (1) White conductor, neutral. (2) insulated green conductors. ** One green wire bonds, connects to the metal rough-in box and the other green wire connects the ground screw terminal on the IG recept. Back at the electrical panel The black hot connects to a 20 amp breaker. The white wire to the neutral bar. And 99.9% of the time both green equipment grounding wires connect to the same equipment ground bar..... NEC will allow the ground wire that is connected to the IG recept to extend through other upstream panels,(that feed the panel that is feeding the new dedicated branch circuit), and connect the ground wire where the main feeder neutral is connected to earth.... How often do you think that happens? Now, that I am thinking about it, would actually hooking up the isolated ground correctly possibly help me get rid of the rf noise coming from my furnace ignition??Simple answer, no.... At this point you can't say for sure the EMI/RFI is being radiated through the air or being carried on your homes wiring... Or Both... You would of thought the Heating and Air Conditioning Contractor would have at least sent out a tech to make sure the ignitor assembly was firmly connected to the burner assembly. And the burner assembly securely fastened to the furnace. That the ignition module grounding jumper was securely fastened to the metal structure of the furnace. What make is the furnace. Manufacture and model number? I assume the furnace is a forced air furnace. When you get home tonight try the gas cloth dryer... The Midwest is full of gas furnaces with electronic ignition/ignitors.... I can't recall ever reading a thread here on Agon or AA where a member experienced your same problem. For what it is worth My furnace is a Lennox high efficiency with an electronic ignition system. It even uses a VFD to ramp down the fan speed before shutting off after a cycle. Audio system, Sonic frontiers Line One preamp, tubes. ARC VT50 power amp, tubes. The furnace does not effect my audio system whats so ever. |
Tim, what is your understanding of an isolated ground? Instead of hooking the outlet like you would to normal outlet. You use a 3 wire + ground (12/3). Black -> Power White -> Neutral Red w/ green tape -> Ground Bare wire -> Ground to metal receptacle box So what I am getting from this is that an isolated ground outlet differs from a standard, is that it the receptacle box is also grounded in addition to the outlet. Now, that I am thinking about it, would actually hooking up the isolated ground correctly possibly help me get rid of the rf noise coming from my furnace ignition?? |
So I have just spoken with the company that put my furnace in. He has pretty much told me that it is RF noise and that the furnace is hooked up correctly or else the computer would not let it start. That included the fact that I asked him about not being grounded correctly, and the neutral and hot wires being crossed, etc.... He basically said to me that there was pretty much no way that the furnace wasn't hooked up correctly assuring me that what they did was done correctly. Then he said I should put a rf noise filter on my amps!! So obviously I am not wanting to do this, but he also said that it is possible to maybe put a rf noise filter in line with the circuit to the furnace. |
... ,I am using 12/2 NM-B romex and so with this wire I can not correctly run an isolated ground??Tim, what is your understanding of an isolated ground? (note: these are no longer in my system) I heard suggestions of a Hubbel above but I think that had an IG??If the face of the hospital grade receptacle is orange in colour or has a orange colour triangle on the face then yes it is an IG recept. Don't confuse a red face with a orange face. But a recept with a red face that has a orange triangle on the face is an IG recept. Albert Porter's Porter ports are not IG recepts..... But they are hospital grade receptacles. |
How old is your house and the develepment. Most new house the gas and electrical are plastic not metal. The piping to your house could be plastic also so grounding to them will do nothing. In that case the electrician puts 2 rods in the ground 6 feet from each other for house ground. My house was built in the 20s, although I just had gas service ran to my house last fall and that is when the furnace was installed as well. The gas lines are metal in my house. Also last fall when I moved into the house the ground was actually not grounded to anything. So I had an electrician come to reground the house. 2 were ran, 1 to the water main and the other he ran a ground rod in the ground. Tmesselt, I do have a gas dryer, I will try this tonight! So based on all of the suggestions I have a starting point to begin to hopefully isolate where my issue is coming from. So on another note though, I am using 12/2 NM-B romex and so with this wire I can not correctly run an isolated ground?? If so, what is a good receptacle that I can use in place of my hospital grade outlets with isolate ground, (note: these are no longer in my system) I heard suggestions of a Hubbel above but I think that had an IG?? Thanks again for all of the feedback!! Tim |
I am putting this in layman terms.LOL, not for my benifit I hope? I called my inspector today and asked him why I had to change the pastic boxes to metal on the IG outlets on a job he inspected for me 2 months ago. I am putting this in layman terms. If there is any METAL on an outlet not used for powering the outlet it must be grounded no exceptions.AHJ.... He has the final say.... Did you ask the inspector if he would approve a bonding strap, wire, from the yoke of the recept to the grounding conductor? Curiosity killed the cat... You are an electrician, why were you using an IG recept on a non metallic raceway installation? As far as NEC 2008 406.2 (2) if a non conductive cover plate is used it is ok to use the IG recept. We don't know what the AHJ would have to say where Tmesselt lives. Curious where did you read in Tmesselt's responses where he said his hospital grade recepts were IG? |
Jen48, I called my inspector today and asked him why I had to change the pastic boxes to metal on the IG outlets on a job he inspected for me 2 months ago. I am putting this in layman terms. If there is any METAL on an outlet not used for powering the outlet it must be grounded no exceptions. He also said if I could find an outlet without metal tabs for mounting then the way I had it would have been fine. Do you know of any? Sorry if I blabbed or you thead Tmesselt. |
Jea48 I said I knew about the IG and non IG Hospital grade outlets. I will depend on what and from whom they purcahase the outlet from the PS Audio Power Ports are IG. How electrical is run and is terminated will differ from state to state and the NEC is a referance for states to write there own. Some states are more lax on the NEC rules, some are not and some add rules. MEC and not the NEC is what I have to go by. Here in Mass home owners can only pull wires with an electrician (for now anyway) but not terminate no matter the voltage, legally anyway. Not even a thermastat or doorbell. In NH you run and terminate as long as you own it. Your state may be differant then mine is. |
I know not all hospital outlets are not isolated. Most people here who are installing hospital grade are doing it for the isolated ground and unless wired correctly it will not be or can hurt someone. When an electrician or home owner installs it and does not use the correct wire it is a waste of time & money. You must bond grounds.Sorry Hevac your post is a little confusing. I am sure you are aware Hospital Grade receptacles are made either isolated ground,(IG), and non isolated ground type. I would venture to say the majority of hospital grade recepts used for typical home audio equipment are not IG type. Example is Albert Porter's Porter Ports. A NASA cryoed Hubbell HBL8300H duplex receptacle. As for Tmesselt case if he paid the extra bucks for a good quality IG hospital grade recept, say like the Hubbell IG8300 he can still use the recept for its great build quality and sonic benefits it may yield for his audio system. As for the equipment ground I assume the dedicated branch circuits are 2 conductor/ with bare grd NM-B sheathed cable. Did he waste his money buying an IG recept in his case? Yes.... As you, I am aware of NEC 2008 Art 406. You might want to refresh your memory... 406.2 (2) ========= If the recept has a ferrous metal yoke he could always use a stranded wire grd pigtail from the yoke, strap, to equipment grounding conductor of the branch circuit. That is if he thinks the ferrous strap is affecting the sonics of his audio system. Brass un-plated strap... there would be no problem jmho. Jim |
Along the lines of what Jea48 said in an earlier post, disconnecting the interconnects from the inputs is not conclusive unless you put shorting plugs on them. Especially considering the M60's high input impedance (250 Kohms), it seems conceivable that the inputs are picking up airborne rfi and then amplifying it. If you don't have shorting plugs handy, you could take rca cables (the shorter the better), plug them into the inputs, and at their other end stuff in some aluminum foil so that it shorts the center pin and the outer (ground) part of the connector together. Obviously, have the power off while you are doing that. Regards, -- Al |
I have not read all of the responses, so I may be repeating what has already been said. Many ignition systems use a high voltage gas tube spark gap to insure ignition.It creates noise just like a spark plug would in your car. The noise has always been there but the Bel Canto had built in line filtering that eliminated the noise. You can purchase filters, from Mouser or any other supply house which might do the job for you. They come in different current ratings and must be wired for your need. The one I have in front of me is ten amps, it's a metal box 2"x1.5"x1.5" It has the internal component stamped on the out side of the box, it filters both sides of the 120 volts.If you have any question you can e-mail me. The info on the filter is SRE |
Tmesselt, How old is your house and the develepment. Most new house the gas and electrical are plastic not metal. The piping to your house could be plastic also so grounding to them will do nothing. In that case the electrician puts 2 rods in the ground 6 feet from each other for house ground. This has been an issue here in Mass and else where and do not know if it has been resolved. For now we do both just to be safe and pass inspection. Like i said before it could be your furnace wiring. I myself have found a few wired backwards it still work cause its 115. The motor or most anything 115 volt does not care if you connect the blacjk wire to common and the white wire to hot it will still work it is just not correct. It could also be your ignitor has a loose ground. Have your service company check the wiring to make sure all parts are in phase. It could be just the control transformer output grounded on the wrong side. Ngjockey. This is why I am thinking line reactor for my equipment. |
Jea48, you stated If the receptacles are isolated ground recepts you could have left them in.... NEC requires if an isolated ground type receptacle is used with a plastic box the cover plate has to be made of a non conductive material... Plastic, Nylon, wood, ect.... For insolated ground outlets in Mass you can not use 2 conductor with a ground that is connected to other devices it also defeats the purpose. The ground wire must be insolated all the way back to the panal. If the bare ground is used it must be in a metal enclosure. Either purchase three wire no ground or 3 wire with ground and use metal boxes or cut the ground off and tape it. |
Jea48 I know not all hospital outlets are not isolated. Most people here who are installing hospital grade are doing it for the isolated ground and unless wired correctly it will not be or can hurt someone. When an electician or home owner installs it and does not use the correct wire it is a waste of time & money. You must bond grounds. |
Up here, we don't require the gas line to be bonded unless it's underground. In the States, NEC (250) and Fuel Gas regs are a little confusing and ridiculous, but it certainly doesn't hurt to do so. The gas line can't be used AS the ground. Neither should the water line. "Joe the boiler guy" probably knows more about the control wiring than an electrician. Can't be wired backwards, depends on a rectified signal to prove pilot. Jea48: It's more likely that the thousands of volts in the spark are polluting the AC, dedicated line or not, than creating RFI. |
Tim: disconnecting the audio input interconnects from the amps tells you the amps themselves are picking up the "clicks". Could be incoming via the AC power, or could even be airborne RFI from the furnace highvoltage arc. You already switched to the opposite AC phase which is a good thing to try. A high current AC line isolation transformer may or may not help, but you could try that if you're committed to keeping the tube equipment. Ensure that the furnace is well grounded. You might try running a temporary ground cable draped across the floor, directly from your distribution panel to the furnace chassis. You could also try connecting a 30uF 400VAC filter capacitor across the AC Hot to Neutral at the furnace (available at your local electrical supply house) which won't cost much and is easy to do. Ferrite filter rings (such as Audioquest sells) placed around the AC line conductors at the furnace and/or at the panel on the dedicated power circuit feeding your amps is also inexpensive & easy to try. I am not surprised that tube equipment would do this because tubes have extremely high input impedance, making them highly noise susceptible. The BelCanto's being solid state are current mode devices which are far more noise immune. Your only fix may be to eliminate the tubes, which is certainly what I would do. You make no mention of AC line conditioning which might be a viable cure; borrow a line conditioner to try it. Some listeners don't care for line conditioners on amps, but there are high current models available that won't adversely affect your sonics. I use line conditioning on my whole rig, not only for noise supression but also for AC line transient protection. Catastrophic experiences with lightning damage have previously resulted from my not using any protection in the past; repairs are quite costly not to mention long downtime. I have a "Chang 9900 Amp" high current 20 amp AC line conditioner sitting here unused if you want to try that let me know via email. |
Or it's possible that the neutral or ground at the boiler switch is reversed. Or worse, the neutral is bonded to the ground screw. Just have him check everything - sometimes Joe the Boiler Man does his own wiring. I have noticed that on my panel I dont really have a neutral bar and a ground bar I just have ground/neutral bar where they are both plugged into. Ground and neutral wires are not separated. Do they need to be separate? |
Jea48 So my first move should be to my furnace company? (This is somewhat overwhelming for me as so my responses with different advice have all came in) But afterall the furnace would more than likely be a free service call due to the fact that it is so new, and then just figure it out from there. Also I have checked the furnace ground. They grounded it to the gas line that runs right next to it, then there is another ground coming from the panel, inside the furnace there is a wire nut connecting these 2 grounds to the actual ground for the furnace. All of those connections seem to be in correct. Could any of this be caused by double tapping my ground bar in my panel?? |
Popping sounds are caused by arc faults. People hear them through speakers when turning on a light switch also. Have the electrician check the wiring connections from the boiler ignitor to the control panel. There should be a black and a white wire from the ignitor to the boiler control box (120 volt). Sounds like you may have a loose connection. That sound you hear is from an electrical arc that is caused by a space between the wires and the connectors. The loose connection is either at the ignitor or the control box. Also have him check all the boiler wiring from the boiler shutoff, to the 24 volt transformer and to the boiler control panel. It is also possible that the ignitor itself is bad. Or it's possible that the neutral or ground at the boiler switch is reversed. Or worse, the neutral is bonded to the ground screw. Just have him check everything - sometimes Joe the Boiler Man does his own wiring. If that's not the case, have the electrician check to see that the boiler wiring is not "borrowing" a neutral (he'll know what that means). If it is, then a dedicated circuit for the boiler wiring may solve the problem. |
03-28-09: TmesseltIf the receptacles are isolated ground recepts you could have left them in.... NEC requires if an isolated ground type receptacle is used with a plastic box the cover plate has to be made of a non conductive material... Plastic, Nylon, wood, ect.... Run a subpanel with just my audio equipment on it with its own dedicated ground??? Would this have to be another stake drove into the ground??Dedicated ground? A dedicated earth ground for the sub panel that is not connected to the main grounding electrode system of your home? Don't do it. And if your friend is a licensed electrician he won't do it. Also I just unplugged my ICs, so all that was hooked up was speaker wire and power to the Genesis amps and the clicking was still there so even though the ICs were a long shot they are no also ruled out.Did you install shorting plugs on the inputs of the amps? Call the people who installed the furnace. I am no Ham Radio Operator but if one has been following this thread they might chime in. If the ignition module or ignitor is not bonded, grounded, properly to the frame of the furnace a resistance will exist between the ground of the module/ignitor and the grounded furnace chassis. This can amplify the transmitting RFI of the ignitor.. A transmitting antenna. Ngjockey, am I correct in my thinking? . |
Well, due to the fact that I was not wiring the isolated ground correctly I switched out my outlets to a standard 20amp outlet and the clicking is still there, but at least it is connected correctly. As far as the Ref1000s I sold them along with the balanced ICs that went with them to fund the purchase of the Genesis and my new ICs which have not gotten here yet. As far as my house ground, I just had that installed a few months ago also, he drove a stake in the ground and also grounded to my water main. So, now I am at a crossroads, the clicking is not all that bad, can this power do harm? Is it possible that this power that is causing this clicking thru my speakers is also causing a degradation in my overall sound quality (even when the furnace is not starting up?) I say this because it is possibly something I can live with for a bit. On the other hand, I have contacted my electrician who has not gotten back to me yet, but what would I want him to do? Run a subpanel with just my audio equipment on it with its own dedicated ground??? Would this have to be another stake drove into the ground?? Also I just unplugged my ICs, so all that was hooked up was speaker wire and power to the Genesis amps and the clicking was still there so even though the ICs were a long shot they are no also ruled out. I really want to thank everyone for their input, it is very nice of you all. Best Regards, Tim |
Hevac1, Hospital grade receptacles do not have to be isolated ground type receptacles. The ever so popular Hubbell HBL 8300H hospital grade duplex receptacle Hubbell IG8300 hospital grade duplex receptacle. |
If you put the previous amps back in place and the problem is gone I would blame the Genesis amps. Like I said, not necessarily that they are malfunctioning, but that they just don't filter out issues with your AC. Maybe they are just more susceptible to noise on the AC line. I have had amps that showed quirks where others did not. BTW, what did you do with the Ref1000s? |
