Update RE: Virtue Audio cables.
My Nirvana speaker cables are now broken in- well over 100 hours. I am extremely pleased.
My Nirvana interconnects have about 50 hours on them and have become noticeably better. At first, they sounded a bit "veiled" compared to the Grover Huffman ICs I had been using, which were of course already well broken in.
Gradually, Jason’s IC’s began to open up, more detail, more "air" and became more "musical". I think the synergy between the Nirvana speaker cable and the interconnects is a key factor. I found that his IC’s needed relatively more time to break in than his speaker cables- that’s my system of course. As always, YMMV
At this point, I’m loving what I am hearing. I suspect that another 20 or 30 hours on the IC’s will yield even further improvement.
One last comment. Jason provides terrific customer service and what he does is clearly a labor of love- great products at affordable prices for folks who appreciate great value and return on their hard-earned money.
No hype, no "magic", no snake oil. |
Something I have learned. Apparently we are being duped in the audio world on cables, especially from popular corporate brands. Cable companies tell us made with copper, but it doesn't mean it is 100% copper. Fillers are in order here. It's like, our burgers are made of 100% beef...yeah, the beef you use is 100% beef, but what about the rest?
I have decided to go with virtue audio cable...Jason Terpstra. His cables are 100% copper, shielded. Here is a guy who does this for the love of it, as his excellent cables are insanely affordable. I will be posting my impressions at a later date.
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Go to Audioquest’s website and download their price list. It will obviously give you retail pricing but more importantly it indicates differences between cables as you go up the line.Always good sounding you can see what fits your budget. Also the low end of Transparent has always been very musical although it’s been a long time since I’ve heard any. Good luck.
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Anybody try ZU interconnects? |
Okay. Well, I would imagine the bjc is similar to my tributaries. I was just wondering if it is possible to get greater SQ in speaker wire that is around this budget as you can in interconnects. I am impressed with what I have read about virtue ic's. Sounds like a winner |
@easola01:
All I can say is, that in my system, which has world class tube preamp and mono amps, Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M and Magnepan .7 speakers, I can definitely hear differences between the speaker cables I’ve tried. Most recently, as I mentioned above, I have replaced the Blue Jeans 12AWG Belden with the Virtue Nirvanas and prefer the Virtues. You can likely get good results from 12AWG magnet wire but it’s s PITA to use, especially in a run much longer than say 5 or 6 feet. I’ve been there. I've got no horse in this race. I'm pretty sure Jason offers money-back trial period. You've got nothing to lose except a few bux in postage. As others have mentioned, there's also the Cable guys you could talk to. Clear Day in Arizona makes some fine silver cables which are well-priced- the owner Paul is a great guy.
YMMV |
Have another related question. I have done a fair bit of reading regarding cables of various types. From what I have gathered, there isn't as much a difference in digital cables as there is in analog. Advice to me has been that you can see a big difference in SQ by putting some upgrade money into analog rca coax ic's, not so much in digital coax ic's. At least, not as dramatic or as important as the analog.
Now, for my inquiry. Speaker cables. There are a lot of articles on the internet that tell us that speaker cable is speaker cable. That you won't hear a difference in the wire between boutique expensive speaker wire and home depot wire. I have also been told from people I trust that you won't hear a difference until you get up into some crazy money wire, like $2000 or more. I have read reviews on this virtue audio nirvana speaker wire, and it is positive. Has anyone had experience comparing the nirvana with other wire? PS...have you? I have simple tributaries 12awg on a spool. Was thinking about putting some banana plugs on this wire and being done with it, but if the nirvana cable will give me an audio improvement then maybe I will go that way.
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@easola01:
Yep. See my post above. Right out of the box they immediately sounded a lot better than my BJC Belden. Smoother, deeper and wider soundstage, and more detail at low listening volume. There's an immediate 'ease" to the music which surprised the heck out of me. That's not to say that it's at all "euphonic." I'd say it's warmer than cold but not veiled.
I’ve also used Grover’s Empress, older MIT garden hose, Anti-cables, Western Electric 16awg cult wire (very hard to find now) Audio Art, a few different flavors from Supra, and some others, which I’ve forgotten. So far, even not fully broken in, Jason’s cables deliver big time. Maybe it’s just fortunate synergy with the rest of my gear, but dang, I’m happy. Another plus is that they are very pleasing to my eye as well as my ear. I’m very eager to hear what his IC’s sound like paired with the speaker cable.
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I second gcp's suggestion. Virtue Nirvana are BIG bang for the buck, and then some. You'll also find Jason a completely stand-up guy who is truly dedicated to providing his customers with excellent cables, at real world prices. His craftsmanship is also exemplary.
No affiliation except as a very happy customer. Right now I'm burning in a pair of the Nirvana speaker cables and am loving it. Once they have another 80 or so hours on 'em, in go a pair of his IC's from preamp to my mono tube amps. |
Looking at virtue cables right now. Have you listened to them ps?
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Looking at virtue cables right now. Have you listened to them ps?
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Suggest:
Always try cable in your system to make any determination.
See the lending library at : THECABLECOMPANY.COM
See JPSLABS.COM their cables are excellent.
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..."but my reading indicates that bjc is terrific for mid to lower fi gear."
The reading is the problem.
Belden 5t00up 10awg equals super hi-fi exotic cables with less resistance, capacitance and inductance (therefore the most transparent, minimal insertion loss at all frequencies) and A LOT LESS anti-physics compounds.
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I’m awaiting a pair of IC’s and Nirvana speaker cables from Jason at Virtue. He is a pleasure to deal with and is very responsive to emails- excellent communication. I think he does what he does as a labor of love, as trite as that might sound, as a service to those fellow audiophiles who don’t have F-You kind of crazy money to spend on cables, and I’m eager to try his stuff in my all-tube system. I have no other affiliation.
More later when I’ve listened. |
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Wow...lots of options. This cable adventure is quite a journey. Jollygreenaudiophile2....try cables free from you or who?
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Morrow Audio makes good cables. Priced from about $60.00 to $3,000.00. I used to have the MA4 RCA between my Bryston integrated and Oppo 105. It was a good match. I thought they were a little better than the Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 I was using. |
Prefacing the comment I am about to make below to state that I am not affiliated with the person/company, but I have used their interconnects
There is a current auction for a Gabriel Gold Refection V2 which I expect can be won at a very good price - this is by far better than any cable that has been recommended to you thus far. |
Anticables should be on your list I feel. I use only their cables except for ethernet which they don't make. I have their reference level electrum cables which may be a bit above your budget. Perhaps you could get something used at the reference level or try out their lower level ones. If you buy from them directly they offer a 30 day home trial. Service is superb. And a 50% trade in value for upgrades if you want to trade up. I can say that their reference electrum cables easily bested more expensive cables in my experience, and are said to be as good as nearly any available and much cheaper to boot. |
Contact Jason Terpstra @
jason.terpstra@gmail.com
for Virtue Audio NIrvana cables best for the money. NOT as good IMHO but also good for the money is Mogami Gold. |
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Would you like to try some very nice "neutral", cables for free? |
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Yeah I actually have watched that video. As I am looking at budget cables, I think I am right in line. I am not so sure that there is NO difference in interconnects between various levels of purchase and methodology. I do however believe that when it comes to speaker cables there probably isn't that much, if any difference. Many articles support this. I have been told by the cable company that in budget cables analysis plus and DH labs are as good as it gets...with DH labs getting the nod between the two
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I had been happy with AntiCables copper speaker cables until I tried a pair from Analysis Plus . Their patented geometry makes a difference and it's available in all their price ranges . They also make Pro Audio cables and have favorable reviews from a lot of professional musicians as seen on their website . Best prices on eBay , from authorized vendor(s) .Have not tried their other cables yet . Look at their Proof online ! |
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set a trap, so you can go off and do more important things....
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Thank you for the advice. I will temper chasing that rabbit hole with patience |
I also have the DH Labs BL1, and it's a good interconnect for the money but not really what you're looking for sonically. Although not absolute, I generally agree with your instinct to go with copper interconnects given your stated preferences. Reviews of Morrow cables seemed to sync with what you're looking for sonically, which is why I recommended trying them, but Dorkwad preferred Darwin and Teo so they may be worth a good look too. And yes, this is like opening Pandora's box, but it's a worthwhile effort that will be an interesting learning experience and reward you significantly in the long run. And hey, wires are about the easiest components to ship and flip, so at least there's that. Not to start a controversial sidetrack here, but I think you'll find those that say wires make no difference are, um, different. Unfortunately in this hobby absolutely everything makes a difference. In fact, ironically, this may be the ONLY absolute in audio. Again, best of luck and enjoy the journey!
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Yes they are...lol
Its akin to chasing the rabbit down the hole.
It is definitely a lot more friendly to your wallet to be blissfully ignorant of what a change of cable can do for you! |
All good advice. Wow, cables are overwhelming |
lower priced Transparent Audio, Clear Day, previous generation Cerious Nano |
I am new to the list and starting out with high end audio.
rotel CD player 1572 with radio shack cables connected with RCA jacks and sound great for my ears. I am a classic rock fan.
Pioneer receiver. Vsx94thx hdmi
$100. Switch
PlayStation 4 hdmi.
Cable box hdmi
VCR/DVD combo RCA jacks from box
Oppo player. u203 hdmi
sonos connect amp for patio speakers
Looking too integrate sonos connect for interior audio only.
Pioneer kuro 5020fd
All controlled by control 4
Any opinions on this for someone starting out?
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easola01,
Obviously you need to do what you are comfortable with doing , but you have listed some quality electronics, not sure you are going to get the musicality they offer with $60 -100 cables |
Having had quite a few of the recommended cables mentioned so far, Darwin cables were the first interconnect that were considerably better sounding in all ways than Morrow MA-3 & 4, Crimson, DNM, Kimber PBJ, Magnan Type 2, Signal Cable to name a few. The Darwin Silver ICs were my first Darwin, followed by the Ascension, and Ascension Plus. The Ascension was better yet than the Silver and the Ascension Plus was even better yet. I still have all 3 ICs which got replaced by Teo Game Changers ($500 each) that have a more organic sound but otherwise are similar sounding in detail, beautiful mids, transparency, great dynamics and bass. The Darwin have a very simple, straight forward approach to building their wires, and they don't look too impressive, but the sound is WAY above their cost. If you read up on them, there are many great reviews on their website. The 2 Ascension ICs are 1 mtr. long with RCAs, and the Silver is 1/2 mtr. with RCAs. The 3 sets I'd let go for $495 total. It's a little over your budget but the sound is well beyond anything mentioned. The 3 listed for over $1500 total. They are about 4 years old. I used these with a TRL DUDE, Nuforce Ref 9 V3 SE monos, Modwright 5400, West .30RDT SE phono, and VMPS RM40 BCSE speakers. |
Experimenting is always a good thing, but yes, to begin with I would put the best interconnects on the phono stage or dac. Sometimes, though it’s not clear which one is best, that’s it might be component dependent. Best for phono stage might not be best for dac, best power cord for dac might not be best for power amp.
I have a simpler system and it is easy to figure it out. Speaking of phono stages, you somehow would want to match the cable that goes from phono to preamp to your tonearm cable. I now have two very high level about equal performance different brands interconnects in the system, and one works slightly better with phono stage than another, and I believe it is because it matches better with tonearm cable. |
Okay, yes, I do have good power cords. Bought them from a good guy in Florida here. So....you are saying that my best interconnects should be outputting from my sources? And, best power cords into preamp and dac. I connected my best power cord to my wells power amp...but will switch. Thanks
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Just remember that the sound will be as good as your weakest cable. I suggest going higher with at least your main source interconnects. Also, with better power cords interconnects suddenly start sounding better. Power cords on preamp and dac are often though not always most important. I think, $300-$500 new is where performance starts. |
Thank you. It is a great club. Looks like DH Labs it is! More recommendations here for DH than other cables for a budget
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+1 for DH Labs cables on a budget for sure.
Used them myself before upgrading.
One way to get a lot more cable for your money though is once you have semi decided what you might like to buy, go look for them used here or on eBay.
That way you get a lot more bang for your buck.
For example if you had a budget of 125 for a pair of interconnects you most likely will get a used pair that originaly cost at least 250 for your 125.
And they should be nicely broken in to boot!
I have only ever bought one new pair of speaker cables in my life, and they ended up being returned...lol.
All my cables and subsequent upgrades have all been purchased used but not abused!
Good luck and welcome to the ever maddening group of "cableguys"
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DH labs look pretty good. Not sure what you mean by system details dekay, but I listed my system above. Thanks |
How bout you list your gear/system details?
Find the replies to your query a bit odd considering that you have not done so.
DeKay |
Everybody has their own favorite. I went with DH Labs silver Sonic BL-1 some time ago. They work well for me, I diy speakers and cables and wanted something affordable that passed the signal fairly neutral and these fit the bill. Wires are like french fries, there are a lot of good ones and some not so good but in there somewhere is your favorite. |
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Okay. Cardas and cerious technologies. Well, am looking for the best cable I can get for the money. Used cables for a better price will certainly help. Going to search now. Thank you, and yes, the wells is a great amp. Not sure what power you currently have...the wells is 150W per channel. Good power but not up there with a number of mono blocks and some other amps
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Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme is a great cable for the cost.
Check out my thread on the Cerious Technoligies cables.
ozzy
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Great system! Wells is at the top of my list if I ever feel the need for more power.
If you use some components much more than others, it might be worth it to splurge on those connections (and skimp on the least used, at least temporarily). Of course, if you're into DIY, then your budget will go much farther.
FWIW In MY system, I found entry-level Cardas to sound significantly better than Audioquest, Belden, Mogami & Wireworld, and not at all like what some reviews would have made me believe. To me it's full, dynamic & detailed--the oft used term "laid-back" does not come to mind.
I'm not trying to suggest that it's therefore right for you, so much as it's definitely worth the time to try at least a few options out. Good luck!
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Thank you. Actually this is a brand new system for me and I need interconnects. I do however have tributaries speaker cables. I will look into these suggestions. It seems to me that for a tubey sound copper might be best, as I understand silver can brighten things up a bit |
Ah. Sorry I misread your post. So, just for reference and now that we know what you're looking for, what interconnects and speaker cables are you currently using? It just helps to know what your current reference is to help make better recommendations.
That said, in my experience you're looking for a tough combination of traits at that price point. Off the top of my head and if I'm you, I'd demo some Morrow Audio MA2 interconnects and maybe also SP2 speaker cables. You might be able to strike a deal with multiple cables as well and very low risk to demo on your system, which is invaluable. I'd be surprised if you're disappointed, but if you try them make sure they're broken in before making any firm judgements. Again, best of luck! |
