Holographic imaging

Ok, I understand what you guys are saying. I have very limited experience with tube equipment. Recently I've had the change to home audition a CAT Signature Mk III preamplifier, that is as you know a famous tube preamplifier. When listening to the same tracks (especially vocals) I had the impression that with the CAT vocals had a 3D rendering, while my own preamplifier, the Accuphase C-290V (= solid state design) had less of this 3D effect --> I would say more 2D. This phenomenon was also reproducible with other music. Another example: I heard several times a full Jadis equipment with Sonus Faber speakers that also sounded more 3D than the same tracks through my own system. As you know, Jadis is a tube equipment manufacturer...

Chris

Mapman, if it is true that "holographic imaging" is in fact "bloom", why do I hear this very often with tube amps and not with solid state? Either solid state or tube should be wrong then?

Chris

Mapman, what I mean is: if one way of reproducing music is different than the other, then either both ways are wrong or one way is the correct way.
Example a solid state amplifier has less bloom with a particular recording while the tube counterpart has plenty of bloom and harmonic richness --> which one speaks the truth?

Chris

To me bloom is the same as harmonic richness. Bloom is not fat or warm per se. It is a highly complex (due to overtones) sound with texture. "Air" is the surrounding and expanding sound we generally don't hear in real life. I think air is an artifact of microphones. "Air" is not: ambient clues --> the diffuse reflected sound by hall acoustics and nearby structures. "Air" that appears like an "aura" is totally wrong! We don't hear such a thing in real life. You can hear this "aura" like phenomenon with the older Jadis units for example. Like Dave said: it is pretty but not very realistic (although some people are addicted to this "aura").

Chris

If one says: "Wow, your amplifier sounds very holographic and 3D, far more holographic than my amplifier, which sounds a bit flat" --> then this mean that the holographic sounding amplifier sucks? Sometimes I'm confused about this issue. If "holographic" or "3D" sound is an artifact, then an amplifier should sound "flat", because that is closer to the truth (and the truth is far more "flat" than many audiophiles are accustomed to)?

Chris (member Flat Sound Society)

In a buddy's listening room a set up consisting of Marten Design loudspeakers, Krell pre- and power amplifier (KSA 150) the sound was flat and not musical, while in the same listening room the sound through the Marten Design speakers with CAT preamplifier and Gruensch power amplifier was holographic, natural and dynamic. Which combination was the most "objective"/truthful? Should one disregard units that sound more holographic than most?

Chris

Detlof, yes I believe there can be such thing as "too much holography". For example, I've heard at a friends house a pair of the old Beveridge SW2 electrostatic speakers. Everytime you hear music it's as if the performers are projected in front of the speakers, floating within a rectangular shaped space. This was for me the ultimate holographic imaging, like the Star Trek Holodeck, like a LSD trip. Personally I think this is too much of a good thing (unless you are addicted to it) and unlike the real life situation. I think the objectivists among us do not believe in "holographic imaging". They believe holographic imaging is always an artifact or the result of phase distortions.

Chris

Quote from a ultra high-end German manufacturer (with regard to their top-of-the-line power amplifier):
"...but this was not the point: it just plays even more relaxed, controlled and holographic then the stereo version."
Here being more "holographic" seems to be a major criteria to depict that a unit sounds superior to the other :)

Chris

I'm sorry guys, once more, here another example of a (German) high-end manufacturer of tube electronics who refers to 3D imaging as a quality factor.

Quote: The EK***SE is a true class A line stage pre-amp. Designed for the audiophiles who want pure analog with the highest quality sound available, without the price of one.
The quality of sound is a dream come true, with a true 3 dimensional sound. Where the depth of instruments and their location, the warmth and transparency puts you in a world where only few have been. You will discover that your music has details that were held back and now are being revealed.

It is striking that many manufacturers of tube electronics use this 3D "quality" to underscore the stregth of their products. Question: is referring to 3D quality in fact a marketing trick?

Chris

Do you think that with vinyl there is a higher palpability factor and also better rendering of depth (and therefore better "holographic" imaging)?

Chris