But a dealer told me Shunyata does not provide a cord with their conditioners.... it must be purchased separately. I guess he's correct as I see many questions about which cord for Hydras for either this or that applicaton... and that different Hydras' have different sonic attributes... Well how do you know if right off the bat you gotta add a Shunyata cord to it.. Hydras, like other components, will perform better or worse with power cord changes. I use Hydra 2 conditioners, and the performance of my system improves with the addition of better cords feeding the Hydras. You can get excellent results with Python Alpha cords, but you can also use different brands. I have used the Python, and presently use DCCA Extreme Reference and Elrod EPS3 Signature cords. Frankly, I could've probably stopped with the Python Alpha. How do you know the Hydra is working without using a top shelf cord? Simple. Buy an inexpensive 20a, 14 gauge, shielded power cord from Radio Shack or an electrical supply house and use it to feed the Hydra. You will probably hear some improvement in the system. If you do hear an improvement, you can be certain a better cord is going to ratchet up the benefits. If you don't hear any difference, or if the sound worsens, then you might try a starter Shunyata 20a cord like the Diamondback or Taipan Alpha. If that's not something you want to do, then move on to another product. Buy a used Hydra and a used Shunyata power cord, and you'll be able to re-sell both with little or no loss. Basically, a free trial. |
Just curious as to why you went with multiple 2's as compared to a 4,6 or 8 model. To keep your digital completely separate? That's exactly why. However, a friend has tried two Hydra 2 and one Hydra 4 on the same AC line, and he prefers the sound of the separate Hydra 2s. |
I suppose that's what burns my butt about having to add a better cord, or even 'a' cord is simply that . . .spending $500 to $1000, for conditioning devices and right away having to get into the pocket even deeper, yet again... and not by choice... by need. One would think makers of these items would supply at least something with the item. I understand your point. However, if you look at it from another perspective, one might argue that it's highly unlikely that a Hydra owner keeps the starter cord on the Hydra, and quickly moves up the product chain. For the consumer, the cost of the starter cord was a poor value from the start. From Shunyata's perspective, I suppose they could package the Hydra conditioners with a basic Diamondback cord, but many Hydra buyers don't want that cord, and they would find it an unecessary additional cost to the conditioner for a cord they won't use. Allowing the customer to purchase any one of several potential power cords avoids wasted dollars. If it makes you more comfortable, consider the starter price of a Hydra 2 to include not only the conditioner but a Diamondback power cord.
How would you say the Hydra 2, or 4, differs from the upc 200 given a like cord is on each of the units...??
As I wrote in your earlier thread asking about PS Audio and Shunyata conditioners, you really have to try them in your own system. I once owned a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet HC at the same time I owned a Hydra 2. I used the Ultimate Outlet HC on my amp and preamp, and I used the Hydra 2 on my digital source. This combo sounded pretty good. When I swapped the two conditioners, the sound became strangled and closed-in. When I left the Ultimate Outlet HC on the digital and plugged the amp and preamp into the wall, the sound still was constricted. I concluded in my system, the Ultimate Outlet HC on my digital front end was no bueno, yet it worked fine on my amp and preamp. This is an example of why it's best to experiment with these things in your system. I did swap about some cords in place of the OEM cord... and Yep! It's better with better cords... You've already experienced my point! It's also doubtful I'll be spending more for a cord than the unit it attaches to is worth. Doesn't make sense. Well, you've just admitted hearing the benefits of better cords. I understand your reluctance to spend more on the cord than on the conditioner, but if it results in an improvement, wasn't it worth the price, regardless of the price ratio between the conditioner and the cord? that'd kind of like putting 3000 bucks worth of rims and tires on a 1000 dollar car... to me anyway. I would propose that adding $3000 rims to a $1000 car does not improve the performance of the car, which at $1000 is already a piece of junk, whereas adding a more expensive Shunyata power cord can markedly improve the performance of a Shunyata Hydra conditioner. You will never know if a Hydra and a good Shunyata cord will benfit your system until you try them for yourself. All the questions and answers in these discussion threads won't answer your question. Considering you can purchase used Hydra conditioners and used Shunyata cords on Audiogon and re-sell them for a zero sum game, what's holding you back? Believe me, if you buy them and try them and they work for you, their cost will be forgotten in a week while your enjoyment of them will last months, or years, or...until you get the next itch to upgrade. :) |
I'll simply add that I have always tried to be frugal when it comes to tweaks..and I regard conditioning and cords as tweaks. Somewhere in these threads I have written about and supported using $7 Volex 14gauge, shielded power cords as upgraded aftermarket power cords. I still own one today, and I'm presently using it on my $6500 digital source while my Cadillac cords are on duty elsewhere. I put my money where my mouth is and rarely recommend anything I haven't personally tried. Finding inexpensive and good 20a cords is a little more difficult, but I'd try Radio Shack or Fry's Electronics. If you don't have success there, then you can purchase an ErnieM DIY cord as sold by Audiogon member "Subaruguru". I used one of Ernie's 20a cords on my Hydra 2 for over a year, and had outstanding results.
So, I also generally start at the bottom of the dollar ladder and move my way up. Warrenh is using $500 cords, by the way...at least the one he purchased from me. He happened to pay much less because he bought it used. I'm sure he would agree that any extra money he has spent on more expensive cords has paid dividends.
Look, I'm not trying to sell anyone on more expensive power cords. I'm simply trying to make an argument for not dismissing their performance benefits out of hand because of their price tags. Like most tweaks, the benefits received never seem to be commensurate with the admission price, but that's the way it is.
Whatever you decide, I wish you enjoyment on the journey. |
My position remains that a seller of components should supply what it needs to operate with as standard proceedure. That's all. Period. Understood. I just like having a choice. I hope nothing I've posted was taken personally as it was not intended that way. No comments of yours have been taken personally. I simply hope they're listening. Sure couldn't hurt their PR. 01-21-06: Samuel
Just as an FYI. There is a quality 12 gauge 20A cord included with Hydras upon the customers request. All dealers should be aware of this and inform the customer. Apparently they were. :) |
01-21-06: Samuel
Just as an FYI. There is a quality 12 gauge 20A cord included with Hydras upon the customers request. All dealers should be aware of this and inform the customer. Grant, thanks for this information. I mentioned your post to two friends who have purchased Hydra 2 conditioners within the past six months, and the availability of quality 20a cord with the Hydra was news to them. It certainly was never offered by their dealers. Why is it the responsibility of a Shunyata customer to ask for a cord, rather than the cord being included with the conditioner? It seems to put the customer in a rather awkward position to have to go back to the dealer and request a cord. |
Grant, I understand Shunyata's reasoning, and I alluded to similar logic in my earlier post.
It's still not clear to me from your post what cord is included with a Hydra purchase (Shunyata brand or generic Belden 12 gauge), and if it's still the responsibility of the customer to request a cord.
It seems to be a policy that's in flux. |
Bill, what do you have plugged into the Powervar?
Ideally, you should plug your amps and preamp into one dedicated line, and your digital components into a separate dedicated line to prevent digital hash from contaminating your analog components. However, plugging your digital components into a Hydra should be sufficient. |
As an option to the Hydra, I have heard excellent things about the Sound Application units (two friends who have owned Hydras now own SA conditioners). The XE-12s has, I believe, 12 outlets, and they are divided between those intended for digital and those intended for analog. Used around $1000-$1250. Commonly used in conjunction with an Elrod power cord.
Personally, I still use two Hydra 2 conditioners on two separate dedicated lines.
I would think it'd be good to separate your digital gear from the rest of the equipment on whichever conditioner you choose. |
Grant from Shunyata gave great advice.
Regarding plugging the conditionier into the same circuit as the amps or into a separate circuit, this is something you'll have to try yourself.
I would not recommend using an outlet extender with the Hydra. If you need more outlets for the less critical components, use your Powervar on the remaining wall outlet. |
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Would it be okay to plug the Rel Storm 3 sub bass unit and the preamplifier into that dedicated line along with the two monoblocks, or would that screw up the isolation? Yes, it would be okay since these are all analog components (your preamp is analog, and there's no digital amp in the Rel, right?). Also, you might consider purchasing a Hydra 2 (remember to ask for the supplied Shunyata power cord), and plug your Rel and preamp into the Hydra 2, which is plugged into one of the four outlets in your dedicated circuit. This would leave one outlet on the dedicated circuit into which you could plug your Original Hydra. At least this way, you could play around. One other idea is to purchase a used VH Audio HotBox 4 Outlet extension box to use in lieu of the Hydra 2. This could be used for your Rel and preamp, too. I saw one for sale recently on Audiogon. Couldn't a second dedicated line be run next to the one existing dedicated line? After all, you already have a four outlet gang box in the wall. Plugging all that equipment into the same line as your amps seems like too much to me, although I'm sure the line has sufficient amperage to avoid tripping a breaker. Still, it's nice to have extra juice for those dynamic transients. |
I owned both the Audio Magic Stealth Mini and Digital Mini. Neither did a thing in my system. Then again, my system was completely different back then. Now, the Audio Magic conditioners might be the Holy Grail. One never knows.
Also, I'd offer the point that what a conditioner does on one digital player might not be appropriate for a different digital player. For Warrenh...you initially used a Mini Digital on an Audio Aero Prima, yes? Have you heard the Mini Digital on an Exemplar 3910? I expect the sound of these two player is quite different, with the Exemplar being much more detailed (this opinion according to a friend who is an owner, and on my past ownership of an Exemplar Denon 2900). What the Mini Digital did on the Prima, may not be correct for the Exemplar. Not a criticism, just a relevant observation.
All this stuff is system dependent, and all the varying opinions demonstrate that one can never know which unit will be preferable in one's system until each unit has been auditioned. PITA, but true.
Everyone I know who has tried the Sound Application units say they are the best they've heard. In my opinion, that's sayin' something.
Can you tell I want to try one? Yup. |
Bill, if the cost of running a dedicated line by a profesional electrician in your area is equal to, or less than, the cost of doing the same in Los Angeles, then it should cost less than a Hydra 2 and an accompanying power cord. perhaps your situation is different. It cost me a total of $500 to run two dedicated lines, including two Porter Ports.
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...In other words, it requires my wife's cooperation and time. Both of those things are in limited supply when it comes to my audiophile habit.
Mdhoover (Reviews | Threads | Answers) Gotcha. Crystal clear. |
