O-10:
Also listened to CD7 of the 100 best set. You are right about the sound quality.
I heard bass on Jimmy Smith's 'Sermon' that actually startled me. :) I was at 'realistic' levels.:) I didn't think my Yorx's had it in them! Great tune, even if Coltranesque in length.
Mingus' 'Better git it in your Soul' Wow! How does he do that! He should rank at the top of Jazz composers. Right up there with Ellington.
And why don't we ever talk about Dinah Washington when discussing Jazz Divas? She has a very distinctive voice.
Ray Charles was Ray Charles!
The set gets better as time goes on. I now stay on the look out for similar sets.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
I read the Jazz.com article, and kept thinking, 'Hog Calling Blues' without knowing precisely why!
Are you back now, or just dropping in from time to time? Are you available for questions?
Cheers |
Is everyone familiar with the 'JAZZ ICONS" DVD series? New to me, and it appears to be great. Check it out on Amazon and you tube it also.
This is one by Quincy Jones with big band. On this one we get everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpwWYLMxYA
A French Horn errr excuse me, Horn.
Two females, one on piano and Melba Liston on Trombone
Phil Woods when he was younger and much, much slimmer
The tunes 'Moanin', (should make the OP happy), 'Lester leaps in' and several more good ones.
This series seems to be worth checking out. Nice one by Monk aand others also.
Cheers |
part two might be even better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Egi1EQ2Ecw
cheers |
All of these several clips are very interesting. This one most of all. The part we never see. The preparation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcGcig8Wj_A
Cheers |
O-10:
If you look and listen closely, you will notice when Battle leaves Carnegie and goes to church!!
Cheers |
Battle goes to church. forgot to post the link! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIAEKQ7GmY
Cheers |
Learsfool:
Wow!! You are in a tough arena!! You answered the question I asked and all the ones that arose from that answer. very thorough! left me question-less!
I suspected it was as you said. A person has to be really dedicated and be able to earn a living until, say, the guy on third trumpet keels over.
Comparing it to acting is very accurate. Thanks for your time and sharing your expertise with us all.
Can't wait to read how one becomes a conductor. I will find it facinating that one system could accomodate such a wide variety of personalities. With folks like Bernstein and Karajan on the loose, How did a guy like Bohm get a job. :)
Thanks again
Cheers |
*****Here's "New York Sketchbook" from that album.*****
I like it. Sounded like NY to me. Which is amazing, considering I've never been there, save JFK. Maybe the Gershwin effect, An American in NY? :) But once you know it's by Mingus, you know there is something there, and the playing will always be of the highest order. All the listener has to do is pay attention.
I don't have that Album or that tune. I thought I had EVERYTHING by Mingus.
Cheers |
Learsfool:
The plight of assistant Conductors and the newly hired conductors seems similar to Backup Quarterbacks in the NFL, and New 2nd Lieutenants in charge of a platoon of Infantry. Tough Jobs!
I will get the book. Checked it out on Amazon. I love stuff like that. Perhaps it will show, that I am correct, in thinking that Rattle got the Berlin position, because of his hairdo! :)
Again, thanks for your time in doing this. Very thorough as always.
Cheers |
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O-10:
I have Dinah singing the Fats Waller songbook. Also a great CD of her singing with Brook Benton. "one more time brook" hahahahah I love to hear her say that.
What is the correct name of the song: 'What a difference a day MAKES ' or 'what a difference a day MADE '? I have accused the woman of mispronouncing that word for years.
The 100 best set lists the name as what a difference a day made!
Cheers |
O-10:
These will bring you on board for sure!
Three great clips of Gergiev with the LSO and Vienna. Note the change in his appearance from each performance.
On the 'Scheherazade, he looked as if he had slept in his suit. Needed a haircut / shave, and forgot his baton. Someone should have pulled him aside. :) On Bolero he just looks weird and on Romeo & Juliet he plays it safe and goes Nehru.
BOLERO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODeNHRtVNO4
Scheherarade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNymNaTr-Y
Romeo & Juliet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxj8vSS2ELU
Outstanding Camera work on all three!! Outstanding playing!! I love to watch these folks play. Great shots of the Sax player on Bolero. The LSO wins the BABE battle hands down!! I think the LSO performances were taken at the PROMS. Great stuff!!
Cheers |
**** What are your favorite tunes by Dinah Washington?***
As of this minute, Stardust is!!! Wow, that was really a compelling rendition. I don't recall hearing her singing such 'sophisticated' arrangements before. I always had her pegged as an down-home R&B singer. 'Invitation' was good, 'Stardust' was on a differnt level. You could hear her.
You are good at finding gems that are hidden in plain sight! Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
I was trying to find a decent performance of two of my all time favorites, 'Brazil' and "Begin the Beguin', with no success. But I did run across my main man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovPmv5H8jdU
Cugat could learn from this guy!
Cheers |
Not bad! Beautiful music and part of the theme music of a brilliant movie by the same name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLAO5Z6T-rg
Cheers |
better!! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikutCJd13cM
Cheers |
My favorite 'Bolero'. Have many, but always play this one. Talk about building to a climax!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltdEGfmnIv0
Cheers |
**** you see Rok, we CAN agree****
Now Frogman, when have we ever disagreed?
Cheers |
*****Rok, here is the most classic "Begin The Beguine".****
Not bad. I heard a few of his during my search. On several he seemed to be getting ready for the Ed Sullivan show, and I wanted to hear him jamming in Havana!!
Thanks
Cheers |
I was about to ask Learsfool to explain what he meant about the situation in Minnesota, but I read an article today, in the Nov 2013 issue of Gramophone that explains it all. Check it out. Also mentions the New York City Opera, the'Peoples Opera', in NYC, going into bankruptcy.
Rough time for the arts.
For all Time Warner Cable customers: Ovation will air the 'Battle of the Nutcrackers' starting on Monday, 13 Jan 2014. Late, due to the 'troubles'.
Cheers |
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The Frogman:
My current Gramophone magazine also says that Levine is now confined to a wheelchair. Any impact on his ability to conduct, from a player's point of view?
Cheers |
The Frogman:
The charlie rose interview is the most informative and interesting I have ever seen. Great stuff! Thanks.
The second clip was basically the Rose interview again, BUT, the short clip of the rehearsal with the singers, was priceless!!
Same with the short clip of the LvB 5th rehearsal. I would rather see the rehearsal than to see the actual performance. Crazy but true.
He mentioned doing 'Flastaff". I have that on LP box set, Vienna / Karajan. One of the most beautiful and captivating LP cover photos ever! Since Levine spoke so highly of it, I will have to get it on DVD now.
He was very open and honest about the help he received along the way. And to have the career he has had, while in constant pain for a large period of that time, just adds to his greatest.
I found his comments about singers, esp females, looking the part, to be very interesting. And sadly true. It never hurts to be beautiful.
Thanks for a really interesting post.
Cheers |
begin the Beguine:
you can wiki it and get the facts / history. Cole Porter etc.......
A long time ago we talked about 'influences'. This is an example of latin influence. The lyrics are surely latin in style and content. :) After all, it took place on an island.
Cheers |
****she had a deep longing for something that could never be, her 8 marriages might be an indication of that.*****
hahahahahha you are the master of understatement!
Cheers |
Today's listen:
Charles Mingus -- MINGUS AT THE BOHEMIA
Some of the most unique compositions ever, AND, they are explained in the liner notes, written by Mal Waldron, who also plays piano on the set.
On this set Mingus plays two songs at once. He does this twice. First on 'septemberly' and The second time on 'all the things you C-sharp' he even includes a little 'clair de lune'.
The music is up to Mingus' usual high standards. But the liner notes, written by one of the players, are priceless!
Sort of like taking a language class. They say something in the language you are trying to master(the music), and then you read the translation in your native tongue(the liner notes).
I think these guys(any Mingus group), rehearse a lot!
Great stuff!
This morning's first performance in the 'Battle of the Nutcrackers' on Ovation, was a disappointment. Too 'modern'. The costumes were a distraction and added nothing to the ballet. Maybe tomorrow's performance will be better.
Cheers |
O-10:
I have seen Monk dance WHILE playing the piano! :)
I guess we can never own everything, but Mingus is one of those pl;ayers that makes you think you are missing something if you don't own everything he has done.
BTW, how do/did you decide which CD / LPs to buy? When it comes to music reviews, I really miss Stereo Review. Their reviews have stood the test of time.
Cheers |
Sign of the Times!
They forgot to invite the Dixie Chicks and the Berlin philharmonic and a few Divas from the MET. This would be a great venue to perform 'LULU'. And what about our Bluegrass friends?
And once all these folks were on board, and there was still room, hell, then they might as well consider a few Jazz players!!
Can the End be far off!!!
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/clapton-springsteen-and-santana-top-2014-jazz-fest-lineup-20140114
Cheers |
O-10:
****** Neil's concept of music coincides with my own.*****
This reminded me of how I felt when I learned there was no Santa!!! :(
Cheers |
Well, to sum up: We have our OP dumping Bop for some guy named Neil Larsen, and having no problem with the Dixie Chicks headlining a Nawlins 'Jazz' fest, and The Frogman is Jamming with Tiny Tim! Ain't progress grand!!!
And you folks wonder why I am so paranoid when it comes to Jazz!!
Cheers |
O-10:
The Bush symphony was interesting. I call this 'video' music. It has no connection to the people in the images. It's designed to make the common seem sublime.
Same for the other piece. When I hear this type stuff, I think, Made up. Based on nothing. Requires a little weed to make a person think they appreciate it.
I will listen to 'Pithecanthropus Erectus' today to get refreshed. Report later.
Cheers |
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The Frogman:
I understand your comments, but a person has to be able to know it when they hear it. Think about it.
I think this clip could meet your definition.
BTW, I love this stuff. I have the CD and the DVD. Highly recommended! Recorded at Fisk University in Nashville. Is it Jazz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRi6yhqmuxU
Cheers |
I can't help it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLCuhwHuEvU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6UDEkqCPE4
Cheers |
Music Lovers:
A Great song! All you folks from down home will surely appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPGDBZdXuk
We don't need no stinking philharmonic!! Some proper acoustics maybe. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTd3ZsvqDiQ
Cheers |
I found the herbie hancock music lacking in dynamic range. Sounded 'muffled'. I think they are better examples of the this type music. Too long also. It has to have that dynamic contrast.
Just one member of the unwashed masses opinion. :)
Cheers |
You cannot state 'your' definition of Jazz, and then have a discussion with others, using 'your' definition as a given fact. What you found lacking in the bluegrass piece, even by 'your' definition, was a matter of degree, judgement or opinion.
The Herbie Hancock piece was not 'muffled' due to the quality of the recording. The music was muffled because it had no dynamic range. The difference between the highest and lowest notes. Booker T and the MG's come to mind. Maybe Herbie Mann? That type stuff. Memphis Soul. Not James Brown as you mentioned.
The music landscape is littered with musicians who possessed the following attitudes: 'understanding' their music or 'getting it' was solely the job and responsibilty of the listener. "take it or leave it". "You don't understand what I'm saying? Well that is just a reflection of your lack of musical understanding" etc......
I would name them, but they are unknown.:)
Bet you can find them on every street corner in NYC. If the artist does not connect with the audience, HE/SHE has a problem! Just a variation of 'the customer is always right'!
Whenever I see the name of a so-called genre with a hypen, I always ask, why is that needed?
Other than these small and insignificate differences, we are in total agreement.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
ahahahahahahah I have to laugh out loud. This is getting to be ridiculous.
I will try again.
We were having a conversation in which you offered a definition of Jazz. A definition that I have absolutely no problem with!!
Before you stated the definition, you made a comment about people saying things like, "I know it when I hear it", and Implied that that was too easy. Sort of like a cop-out.
In respoding to your post, I attempted to show that a piece of music could meet your written definition of Jazz, and NOT BE JAZZ! That's what I meant, when I stated that, hearing it being of the upmost importance. (know it when you hear it).
The point of the bluegrass piece was to show that this was an example of such a piece of music.
I play it often and have always felt it had a lot of Jazz elements in it. I said it COULD meet your definition.
You said it does have improvisation, but does not meet the definition due to the lack of complexity and sophistication of the music, and interaction between the players. I said that these qualities could be a matter of degree or opinion. i.e. maybe the bluegrass players consider their music fairly complex etc....
I did not say, or mean to imply that the bluegrass piece was Jazz, just to show, that a written definition, no matter how well constructed, cannot be the final answer.
The music must be HEARD! Or maybe in the case of a pro, looked at on paper.
The Hancock piece. I listened to it again. At least 12 minutes of it. 12 minutes I will never get back.
The dynamic range thingy. Don't stoop to 'gotcha' audiophile techniques. You knew what I meant.
I think I didn't like it because of the electronic keyboards and the electric bass. And that mind-numbing repetition of the rhythm section.
It does not sound muffled, bad word, it sounded like what I said, Booker T. No disrepect to Booker T. Memphis Soul. Stax. I love music, but I got tired of listening to it. Maybe it got better later on. I will concede that possibility. I am sure his shoes were appropiate to the music being played. Maybe some horns joined later.
Music genres with hypenated names is used to create new catagories or new genres of established music genres, so that the noise makers can play. And get awards. And make money.
We really have no disagreement.
I will now go into Chief Joseph Mode, and fight no more, forever.
Cheers |
O-10:
Pithecanthropus Erectus: With a title like that, and coming from our OP, I thought it best to define terms!:) Walking upright. Got it!
For those of you that want to listen to modern, progressive and cutting edge Jazz, you need go no further than Mingus. He can go to the far reaches, and NEVER LEAVE JAZZ. To me, that is his greatest. No hypen needed or required.
The liner notes on this CD are great. Again the music and it's intentions are explained by Mingus himself. Nat Hentoff gives his thoughts also, but who better than Mingus himself to expalin his music.
The title track is my favorite. There is something about it that rises above the usual Jazz tune. I wish I had the words to explain it, but I am glad I have the ears to hear it.
I recall the CD 'Art Pepper meets the Rhythm section'. A great set. Pepper playing with the Miles Davis rhythm section. They never rehearsed! Met for the first time the day they cut the record. You just know that would not and could not, ever happen with a Mingus set. He demanded more than just blowing, and he got more.
I remember when I was in college, a friend, who introduced me to Mingus' music, made a comment about the strict and high standards he set for his players. How true. That is the hallmark of his records, Playing at the highest level. No blowing sessions.
Calling him a Jazz player, is like calling Einstein a Physicist. It's true, but totally inadequate.
O-10 thanks for reminding us.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
Chick Corea -- LIGHT AS A FEATHER
The album from which your clip of 'Spain' was taken.
Corea is a lot of things, but noise maker is not one of them. We are in agreement already. And I hope we can agree that the singer should be banned from ever recording again.
'Spain' is for sure the best track on the CD. I just don't get the need for the electronic stuff. It takes some getting used to, and I don't see the improvement or advantage over the acoustic stuff. Farrell was a welcomed presence.
Visualize for a moment: All the well known great piano players in the history of Jazz. Now, visualze them sitting in front of some electonic thing with several keyboards in front of them. The Duke? Bud Powell?
Now visualize all the great Bass players. Now try to see them with a bass guitar around their necks! Mingus? Really!
The very thought of such a thing is absurd!
But Corea is a great musician. After all, I bought this one, and several more.
The main problem with electronic instruments is that you can get close and actually cross the line between music and 'sound effects'. Note the 'wah-wah' at the end of 'Spain', and in the title track also.
Good album. Would have been better with Steinway and upright acoustic bass.
Cheers |
Great clip. Reminded of my days in the Fatherland, back in the 70's. I thought I was back in the Mexicana Bar in Frankfurt. :) Those were the days!
Some more hip bass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkcHSgfDdkI
Cheers |
Today being saturday, I thought I would give Bop and Classical a rest and stroll down memory lane. A little Motown and oldies but goodies.
Happened across this:
Quincy Jones -- BACK ON THE BLOCK
I remembered it had a good rap tune with Ice-T.(a masterpiece, by rap standards) And also a version of Birdland, which I liked.
While listening I looked thru the booklet for the first time. I was stunned! Here are some of the people ivolved in this thing:
Ella, Ray Charles, Miles, Dizzy, Sarah, Mcferrin, George Benson and god knows who else. Amazing! Outrage!!
They even included recorded voice of Lester Young! Damn! Even the dead aren't safe from these people.
But, the reason I am posting is to show what I think is the danger of electronic instruments in Music and esp Jazz.
The players are credited with the usual things, vocals, sax, trumpet etc.... here are a few new, to me, ones:
synthesizer programming
kick and snare drum sounds
keyboards (no more piano)
synthesizer arrangement
rhythm arrangement
herbie hancock, synthesizer pads and M1 pads
synthesizer strings arranged and composed by...
M1 programming
WTF??? Mount up regulators!! Ride to the sound of the 'drum sounds'!
It's called a slippery slope.
Cheers
I think it's a good CD. Had to be, it's Quincy! |
|
You know you love it.
At 2:44 she leaves Carnegie Hall and goes to church. Watch her hands and head movement.
I love this woman!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIAEKQ7GmY
Cheers |
The Herbie Hancock music reminded me of this, And I LOVE this! Got me thru ther 70's. Along with EW&F. This is better than the Hancock piece. Of course Hancock is more than just one clip. Hell, I have him playing Handel!
Back in the day, When I cranked up the WAR piece on my JBL L-150s WOW!
Music is not about Perfection!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBJa6rKgy3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfa-n_zYSo
Cheers |
O-10:
Is that Nica's Bentley on the WAR album cover?
Cheers |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xncznvkB7S8
Cheers
|
Acman3:
This is Real Fusion! Notice how easily Blues and Gospel can be FUSED with Jazz. Esp with a Master doing the arrangements.
The solos on 'Layla', wow! And the Trumpet and Clarinet playing on 'Just a closer walk with thee', if you aren't screaming, there is something wrong somewhere.
O-10: That's Ali Jackson on drums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1koHhFv9IS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A91pY1L9meQ
Cheers |
****but did I hear those solo's a hundred times before?****
Only if you have seen the clip a hundred times before. He is the Alpha and Omega of Jazz today. And can play, at the highest level, in ANY genre. Don't like it? Too Bad.
Cheers |
When I went to the clips of Marsalis and Clapton, off to the side I saw these:
Wynton playing in dubai, an islamic country. A line of children waiting to talk and get pointers on playing / music from him. He was showing a girl how to place the mouthpiece and explaining the embouchure
Wynton driving a crowd crazy in Chile
Wynto playing, with Marcus Roberts, for little children for a kids tv show
Wynton playing baroque music
Wynton on the Charlie Rose show speaking to the country on Jazz
Wynton at Lincoln Center, leading the best, and most important Jazz Band on the planet.
He could be considered the Ellington of this era.
How dare you people criticize him, while you praise freakish looking wannabes, making obnoxious, non-sensical noises.
Cheers |
Acman3:
Well if you and The Frogman and O-10 and Learsfool are kindred spirits, it would be more appropiate for me to go. I admit to having a mental block when it comes to Free, Avant-garde and Fusion music. So being the disruptive force, and I admit to that, you stay. You have more to offer this thread than I do.
Apologies to our OP.
Cheers |
**** I would respectfully suggest that an apology is in order.****
I Agree!
Acman3: I apologize for any comment I made they you felt was out of place or insulting in any way. It was not my intent.
I will have to use more of these :) :) in my rants to try to convey tone / intent. The statement that started with HOW DARE, was directed at the entire thread. I said 'you people' I should have added a, :).
The solos on Layla and the hundred times thingy, I assumed you were talking about Wynton, because I thought we were talking about the Jazz player. I cannot comment on Clapton's solo because I don't own any music by him except the thing with Marsalis. So it could well be old hat, to everyone else. BTW, I did like Clapton's playing.
I agree with The Frogman, yes it does happen, that you make excellent contributions to this thread. Much more informative and thoughtful than mine. You should post more often. That could be because you engage your brain before you type. I tend to skip that step.
I am not a bully. There are enough of those out in the General Population on Audiogon. That's why I never venture out. I also realize, and consider myself to be, the least informed person on this thread, so I am hardly in a position to try and bully anyone.
Again, I apologize.
Cheers |
****Similarities: instrumental, electric instruments, Latin percussion, same era.*****
This is amazing! You nailed it! That's exactly what I thought. Big group, lots of percussion, no singing, and drenched in latin Flavor! 1970's written all over it.
****That's where the similarities end and says nothing about style, and overall vibe.*****
Left that part to you smart guys! :) Maybe I should have used Mongo Santa-Maria's 'Cloud Nine'. More Jazz?
I said it was better than the Hancock piece because, I had already put them in the same bag. Rightly or wrongly. And in the same bag, for me, Santana kicks butt.
****Santana's band was very exciting (dynamic range?) like few others, but was clearly coming, first and foremost, out of a rock bag with Latin and funk elements. Herbie's Headhunters were jazz players bringing that sensibility to a funk bag.*****
Even a pro like you used the word FUNK in a description of both groups. So you can readily see how a novoice like me could get confused and overlook the finer points of the performances. Of course when I hear the word FUNK. I think 'Parliament' or 'James brown and the JB's'. We don't wanna go there.:)
Ideals I carry in my head.
The 1970's were a low point for Jazz. Sterile. I spent most of my time and money on pop and classical. I spent the decade traveling between Germany - Huntsville, AL - El Paso - Huntsville Again - Korea - and Germany Again.
We used to go to our favorite Korean bar and listen to the Stone's 'Sympathy for the Devil', all night!! Slim Pickings, but Better than nothing.
Not exactly fertile grounds for Jazz, except for the record stores in Germany. The whole thing was like a blur, a lost decade for me.
O-10 was correct to mention that 'Bitches Brew' started the decade. A harbinger of things to come. A Jazz date that will live in infamy!:)
Cheers |
