Jkull,
Have you had the opportunity to hear the vintage Western Electric 310a tubes in your 219ia yet?
Charles |
Jkull,
Well that would suggest to me that the stock 310a tubes may be pretty good quality tubes and/or the input stage tube "may not" be as impactful or critical as the preamp section 12AX7 in the 219ia. "You just don’t know until you listen to the various tubes in specific amplifier circuit sites. Your approach is the way to proceed.
Charles |
Good decision, you’ll be covered regarding the 310a for many years. It’ll be interesting when you get around to the 300b driver and the 845 output tubes. I have good experience with both especially the 300b. I’ve heard 11 different brands in my SET amplifier (both my own and via "generous " loans from fellow audiogoners). Good 300bs aren’t cheap but the better ones definitely sound terrific.
Granted I’ve only heard the 300b as the output tube and not functioning as a driver tube as in your amplifier. When it comes to the 845 the Psvane W.E Replica was superb in my friend’s Absolare Passion Signature PSET. We both felt that they surpassed his NOSE RCA 845, subjective of course.
As I’ve said before, you Line Magnetic 219ia deserves the best tubes you can comfortably afford. I’m listening to Miles Davis as I type and I feel as though I can reach out and touch the musicians, so real is the sound. A high quality 300b tube in a good amplifier is just natural and beautiful. I believe you can relate to what I mean. The same is true for the 845 tube.
Charles |
"I wasn't able to get that done before "
Well that's a beautiful and concise summation of where the LM 219ia has taken your system and listening enjoyment.
Charles
|
The EAR 868 is very highly thought of in the realm of good tube preamplifiers. Quite a compliment for the 219ia preamp section competing so closely.
Walter I'm curious to know how the EML XLS works out as a driver tube in your amplifier. It's splendid as an output tube in my amplifier.
Charles |
Hi jkull,
I appreciate your update post. You did make a pretty drastic change in the direction of your audio system (mega watt solid state driving demanding speakers). I’m happy for you that you took a chance with a near polar opposite approach and have found such satisfaction.
Simple circuit lower power amplifiers and efficient easier driven speakers is a very fine option that can provide long term contentment. Do you that you’re listening to music more often and/or for longer listening sessions ? Is there more of an emotional connection to the music? Charles
|
Jkull,
I haven’t commented extensively on the 300b options because I’m only familiar with it as an output tube and not as a driver. It’s certainly possible that the brand characteristics remain consistent regardless of duty they provide in the amplifier.
If that’s the case then for the type of sound you desire I’d say you’re on the right track with the TJ Full Music carbon plate and the Psvane W.E.. Replica. These two may be a bit fuller/warmer than the Shuguang Black Treasure tubes. I used the Black Treasure for about 2 1/2 years and it’s a very good tube.
I’m not sure of voltage issues with the EML XLS . I can only report that its an outstanding tube in my SET amplifier in both sound quality and reliability. EML also offers a standard 300b that is said to be excellent.
Charles |
Hi jkull,
I've had the sheer pleasure of owning the Elrog, Takatsuki and EML XLS 300b tubes. These are simply top-tier tubes that sound superb yet each has its unique character. The EML XLS is admirably natural and transparent I can’t say that it "adds" warmth. Rather it reveals the inherent warmth or lack of it in a recording.
For example I have recordings that really convey the full bodied tone and warmth of tenor saxophonists and the colorful and rich harmonics of jazz guitar chords. The EML is a wonderful conduit of this realistic reproduction, it preserves the soul and emotion of music. It is a very stout and durable tube.
Charles |
Jkull,
The upscale Czech 300bs are excellent all around tubes. I used a pair of the KR XLS loaned from a friend. I'd say that in my amplifier the EML XLS is a "bit" more open/airy and the KR XLS slightly darker (but not dark if you know what I mean), subtle difference. Overall both are terrific in my opinion.
Charles |
Jkull,
As I wrote above both tubes are terrific. I’d go for the best price in your situation. Either should be excellent as a driver tube in your amplifier. The standard KR would seem an excellent tube driving the 845 tube., in this function I'm not sure the XLS version offers an advantage.
Charles |
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Jond,
Do you happen to know what amplifier the EML XLS user owns? Just curious as sometimes certain tubes are better performing in certain amplifiers. Interesting that he and I hear the very same sonic character of the EML XLS.
Charles |
Jkull,
Yes, that is my suspicion, I can’t produce facts to confirm that however.
Common sense and listening experience suggest to me that a high quality 300b driving a good 845 tube should sound beautiful!
Charles |
Jkull,
I'm more familiar with EML than KR. The EML XLS according to the U.S, Distributor is approaching 40,000 hours of service for some long term owners and still tests well, now that is impressive. The KR as far as I know is built to a similar high standard and could possibly be as durable. Getting them for a very good price is a high value proposition. I believe that you'll have no regrets.
Charles |
Jkull and Jond,
The EML mesh plate is a very airy sounding tube. I had them in my amplifiers for several weeks until they failed. This is a more delicate tube and my amplifier circuit pushes them too hard, so not compatible. They’d be beautiful in the right 300b amplifer.
Jkull I see your point, apparently my amplifier is a better match with the XLS version. I do believe that the KR standard 300b should be fine in your situation.
Charles |
Jkull,
If you learn the EML XLS is acceptable to use in your amp I'd ask Jac if the XLS offers any advantage utilized as a circuit driver tube compared to a standard EML (or KR) 300b. I'm familiar with his site and he appears to be quite knowledgeable regarding the European tubes.
Charles |
Hi jkull,
It appears that the 300b tubes individual character are apparent as driver tubes just they are when used as output tubes. Your description of the sound of the KR is quite similar to how it was in my amplifier. Like I have written previously I gave a slight edge to the EML XLS but could unquestionably live happily with either of these exceptional tubes. No surprise to me that you preferred the KR to the Full Music 300b. I’d check to be sure that the EML mesh is suitable as a driver tube in your amplifier's circuit. It’s a very beautiful organic sounding tube under the right circumstances.
Charles |
Hi jkull,
It appears to me that since your acquisition of the Line Magnetic 219ia your system has taken a sharp turn toward naturalness and realism. No doubt that this change in your digital source takes you further down that road. I don't believe there will be any looking back. I'm sure music played though your current system is organic and captivating.
Charles |
Jkull,
Granted this is just my opinion but I don't believe that you are missing much at all by not having DSD. What limited listening exposure I've had didn't match the preceding hype.
I believe that the Redbook medium is/ can be genuinely excellent "if" you have a very good quality digital source. My listening is predominantly jazz and most of this genre's CD recordings are well done. If could be different with other types of music as far as CD vs DSD recordings.
Charles |
Hi jond,
I've yet to come across a disappointing sound K2 CD. They are exceptionally good based on my exposure. The few RVG recordings I've heard were very good sounding as well.
Charles |
Jkull,
Given your stated sonic objectives and listening priorities I'd go for the Line Magnetic 219i (LM). By all accounts it is exceptionally well made, uses high quality parts, premium grade transformers and very robust power supply. SET circuits by default are simple and minimalist thus a straight and uncluttered signal path. 300b driver tube for the 845 is very smart.
Reviews and word of mouth via owners has been enormously enthusiastic. I believe that this amplifier will provide a combination of SET purity, transparency and nuance along with very ample grunt, bass control and current capacity for your particular speakers. Tonality and naturalness should be truly top tier.
Charles |
|
Jkull,
One other factor to consider is the 300b driver tube is audibly important in this circuit. Those familiar with the 219ai say this driver along with the 845 output tube are sensitive to the quality of tubes. If you decide to go for this amplifier people report that the Psvane W.E.Replica 300b and 845 are exceptionally good.
Charles |
Sounds like a smart approach. I use the W.E. Replica 101d tubes in my Line Stage and they’re clearly an upgrade in sound quality across the board. Well worth their additional cost.
Good luck,
Charles |
mb1 audio,
Do you really believe that jkull is merely seeking pats on the back? I don't get that impression, rather he is attempting to establish a database for 2 amplifiers he has interest in owning. Reviews and forum feedback is a practical way to gain information. It has been very helpful to me over the years. You have to begin somewhere and listening to a product isn't always readily available.
I purchased my amplifier, speakers and DAC as a result of owner feedback combined with reviews and it worked out fabulously. Other components I own I was able to hear prior to buying.
Charles
|
Hello mb1 audio,
I don't believe anyone posting here has suggested your input is wrong, different perspectives are expected on these forums and is how information is gathered. I happen to think that his speaker and LM 845 SET is a very reasonable match with the potential to be quite sucessful. Jkull acknowledged that the Marantz is for temporary use. As far as I am concerned his pathway is a sound one. It is not clear to me what informs your caution.
Charles, |
Hi jkull,
No arguing tone intended at all, just an open discussion. Sorry if I came across as contentious. I avoid personal spats on these forums.
Charles |
Excellent idea to go listen to these various LM amplifiers. Let us know your listening impressions.
Charles |
Jkull,
Al and mb1 audio raised legitimate caution in regard to gain and sensitivity issues and the possibility of excessive noise. It is reassuring to know that you heard a LM amplifier driving very sensitive (104 db) La Scalas with such a fine listening outcome. The Stereophile measurements cited by Al would raise reasonable doubt regarding compatability. Your direct listening experience seems to have resolved that concern, assuming that the LM amplifiers measure similarly. Nothing beats actually listening to a component/speaker. I believe that you’re headed towards sucess. Your recent experience is consistent with what others have reported when using high sensitivity speakers.
Charles |
Hi Roxy,
I've read where people who've listened to both the 219ia and 518i reached the same conclusion as you. Essentially the 518 is "very" good however the 219 is in a higher tier.
Charles |
Trenner-Friedl are exceptional speakers, I heard their RA Box speaker and it was terrific.
Charles |
Jkull.
Yep! Let your ears guide you as I believe you'll find that both LM amplifiers are really good sounding and it's a matter of which one you connect with musically. Both of them have an abundance of power/headroom for your 102 db sensitive speakers. The truth is that at typical/reasonable listening levels you'll only be using tiny fractions of 1 watt of power. In fact I'd wager that you'd seldom exceed the "first" watt of power unless you really crank up the volume.
In your situation the emphasis is truly focused on the quality of the amplifying power and that's what you'll get with either of these 2 amplifiers. Truth be told, you could get by easily with a good quality 8 watt SET amplifier. The two another amplifiers will of course provide you more flexibility if you were to ever change your speakers. Once again I'll say that you're headed in the right direction. May as well get a high quality good sounding power amplifier now and minimize the spector of "upgraditis" down the road.
Charles |
|
Jkull,
I view it this way, many people have/are using the Cornwall with a "wide" array of tube amplifiers. Overwhelming they report very satisfying outcomes, that’s significant and also encouraging. Could the LM 219ia or 508ia be the exceptions that won’t pair with the Cornwallis successfully? It’s possible, but I think unlikely given the "many" tube amplifiers that have been successful across a wide user database.
Of course I nor anyone else can guarantee any outcome, I believe that the odds are strongly in your favor. Although not identical pairings, just how different could the LM 219ia-Cornwall be from the LM amplifier -La Scala you recently heard? Believe me I see the point Al raises and it is a legitimate one. The testimony of legions of Cornwall owners with tube amplifiers spread over decades should provide you some measure of confidence.
Charles |
Shindo is a wonderful product but occupies a different price point. Line Magnetic gains my appreciation for the value proposition. True high quality audio performance at reasonable (although not cheap) cost. To get similar power from Shindo is much more money. The LM 219ia or 508ia wouldn't be embarrassed by amplifiers 2-3x their cost.
Charles |
Jkull,
When will you audition the two LM amplifiers? I've read that the preamplifier section of the 219ia can be considerably improved with better quality 12ax7 tubes.
Charles |
"with me ?"
Oh yeah! Your priority of excellent sounding midrange is the same as mine. Of course many sonic parameters are important but organic character and realism of the midrange takes precedence for me otherwise it's a waste of time. Many posters on audio forums seem to obsess about bass, I'll take great midrange with "merely " good bass than the other way around. I really believe that you're going to be very happy with the LM 219ia .
Charles |
Jkull,
Obviously I’ve no objective/scientific evidence to support my opinion, just a "gut feeling " based on my listening experiences and reading your thoughts and desires. I’d definitely go for the LM 219ia as I believe that it is an exceptionally good SET amplifier that will give you what you’re looking for. Again just my gut talking 😊. No knock on the McIntosh intended, but a good SET can go straight to your musical soul.
Charles |
Hello Wig,
Congratulations! I can imagine the pairing of that amplifier with your Acoustic Zen Crescendos, beautiful.
Charles |
Hi Wig , I’ve heard the Crescendos driven by the Triode Corp of Japan TRX series 845 PSET (higher tier model line of their amplifiers) on three separate occasions and that pairing was excellent each time. Mr. Lee (Acoustic Zen) has good taste and ears (and he was gracious and friendly). I truly believe that the LM SET amplifiers offer very similar sound quality at a quite reasonable cost. You have assembled a terrific system.
The SS Vitus and VAC push pull Pentode amplifiers you had are without doubt very good, but your SET offers more purity, transparency and emotion.
Charles |
Jkull,
After reading your listening impressions of the Cornwall I realize that your sonic/musical priorities are very similar to mine. If the Cornwall is more natural sounding than the B&W it’s the superior quality speaker. Natural is what you strive for otherwise you just have canned hifi reproduction.
If the Cornwall impresses you driven by Emotiva then you’re in for a genuine treat. I’d be near astonished if the LM 219ia isn’t a significant upgrade, every aspect of your sound should improve.
I’d strongly recommend that you at some point upgrade the internal wiring and crossover. From all I’ve read the Klipsch speakers really respond to this type of modification. Your amplifier deserves a high caliber speaker to reveal all of its potential, so these upgrades to the Cornwall are justified.
You are well on your way towards serious improvement in your audio system and listening enjoyment. For what you’re seeking to accomplish, the 219ia will be a better fit than the Emotiva amplifier.
Charles
|
John wrote "All transducers have their faults"
And so do all sources, electronics and cables. Furthermore all listeners have inherent biases. I have come to certain conclusions over the years based on hearing many types of audio systems and thus my own developed bias. Higher efficiency speakers paired with lower power amplifiers more often than not sound superior to inefficient (hard to drive)-speakers paired with high power amplifiers.
So for jkull to go from B&W with 500 watt Emotiva to klipsch Cornwall with a 22 watt SET amplifier makes absolute sense to me. This is my generalizing viewpoint and I do recognize that there are exceptions as always.
Charles |
Jkull,
When you do decide to modify the Klipsch crossover be certain to select a very high quality capacitor at the tweeter (high-pass filter) as it is a worthwhile endeavor. You will hear the obvious improvement in sound quality. I did this with my speakers and it was money well spent. Better parts do matter.
Charles |
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John,
The consistent finding for me in addition to the ease is a more natural sound and aura of performer presence. Particularly when a SET is used. I can’t go back in the other direction, ever.
Charles |
Hello jkull,
It’s gratifying to read how pleased you are with the sound of your system with the addition of the LM 219ia SET amplifier. I’m not at all surprised and was pretty confident that it would turn out well for you. Your listening impressions are very early and quite enthusiastic, the good news is that the sound quality will further improve noticeably as the new amplifier burns in.
What you described is what high quality SETs are capable of providing with an appropriately matched speaker. Natural and realistic music reproduction that breathes life and emotion that is in some capacity unique to SET amplification. I can appreciate the stark contrast you distinguish between the SET and the SS emotiva, very different indeed. There is a genuine purity of the sound that enables an undeniable organic flesh and blood awareness to the listening experience. It makes some other amplifiers sound flat, uninspiring and frankly lifeless by comparison. As you've noticed already, tone and harmonics are just more believable and resolved.
You’ve received much feedback and opinions on this thread leading up to your decision to purchase the 219ia. I’m glad you took the opportunity to try this type of amplifier. In my opinion your admiration and sheer listening enjoyment are only going to increase over the course of time.
Charles |
I believe that there are numerous paths towards developing a truly satisfying audio system. I don’t doubt that a well restored vintage McIntosh tube amplifier is a good example. SET amplifiers by default have really simple circuits and fewer parts. This minimalist design if implemented to a high standard is going to result in a high degree of musical purity. jkull is hearing what he does in large part for this specific reason.
In an ideal world it’d be rewarding to directly compare the LM 219ia and McIntosh MC 225.
Charles |
Hi jkull,
The Decware ZP3 is "very" compelling for the following reasons.
1 Decware has earned a strong reputation for high quality sound and well thought out engineering and design.
2 The circuit is very simple triode based with tube rectification.
3 No negative feedback is used ( a major plus in my opinion).
4 The power supply is stout and over specified (good engineering decision).
5 Jupiter Beeswax capacitors are an available upgrade for 150.00 USD. Jupiter makes excellent capacitors. Your system is good enough to exploit these superior capacitors. Well worth the money.
This quality Phono Stage combined with the high caliber 219ia will yield a pure upper tier signal path,this = very natural and emotionally involving sound that many systems cannot achieve.
Charles |
Here's my take jkull. The 219ia is a serious no BS amplifier that has elevated your system. From this point onward every decision concerning further system changes should be based on the aspect of quality. You've moved beyond the sound/hifi stage and are in the realm of music reproduction and engagement/communicative interaction. This is where you want to be.
Charles |
Jkull,
At your listening levels are you usually above or below 1 watt of power? My "guess" is that you're using fractions of a watt.
Charles |
"I'm loving this thing "
I understand 😊
The really special components pull you straight into the heart of the music and compel you to continually listen.
Charles |
When I used to tube roll with my PP amplifier’s 6SN7 drivers the RCAs and Sylvanias from the 1940s-1950s were very good.
Waltersalas ironic your experience with amplifiers. You preferring 1930s technology (SET) to the state of the art (the future is here now) Devialet. Nonetheless I thoroughly understand your choice. I believe that the 508ia will keep you happy for many years. DHT 300b driving DHT 805 in a minimalist pure class A circuit supported by a robust power supply. Some things in audio are just timeless.
Charles |
Hello Walter,
I looked at your system page and you have good taste. I'm familiar with the VAC REN 70/70 amplifier (a classic IMO). You have two fine amplifiers to interchange, 300b PP and 805 SET. Nice!
Charles |
Hello Walter,
Some people say that the VAC REN 30/30 may be a bit sweeter and organic than the more powerful 70/70 (if you don’t require the additional power). I can’t comment on that comparison but I believe that both are terrific amplifiers . The Coincident Frankenstein is superb for my needs however I feel that the LM 508ia is also superb and a wonderful match with your Daedalus Ulysses speakers.
A friend of mine had the Absolare Passion Signature 845 PSET mono blocks and we listened to a variety of 845 tubes. NOS RCA,Elrogs, Shuguang, Psvane Hifi and their W.E.Replica version. The best sounding were the Elrog and Psvane W.E.Replica, these two stood out without question in our opinion.
Elrogs are Uber expensive and can have some reliability issues. The W.E.aren’t nearly as costly (although they aren’t cheap either) proved to be very reliable and sound excellent. Overall in terms of value and absolute sound quality I enthusiastically recommend this tube. Your 508ia is high caliber and will exploit the top quality tier of tubes.
Charles |
