Twoleftears,
Guess you never listened to an Esoteric player. Are you going to trash one of the Highest end players on the planet if not THE best player because it has 8 Filters to choose from?
Marantz SA-10 arriving Monday!
I've been hearing and reading all I can about this player during this last year. I have a 6005 right now and it's a nice player but not as good as my analog rig (10k) so it's not a fair comparison. Elizabeth mentioned that her SA-10 is better than her analog. I will be comparing the 2 SACD players side by side. I have at least 3 CD's in which I have duplicates. I'm fascinated about how the circuitry upsamples to DSD SACD. Well not exactly but somehow an improvement over Redbook CD. I have a 2" thick maple block coming in the same day for it. It's going to be a long weekend. I know it can't work miracles on all CD's. If there is jitter in the recording then supposedly you will never get that out. Speak up if I'm wrong about that.
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For astru, You OWN a SA-10. You should read the owner's manual. The XLR pins in the SA-10 DO conform to the Japanese standard. The owners manual mentions it, and tells what should be done.Marantz US download Sa-10 owners manual page 27: ""Phase Switches the output signal phase for balanced outputs. (XLR connectors) (v p. 8) Normal (Default): European system Inverted: USA system 0 The output signal for unbalanced output changes when the “Phase” setting is changed. It is recommended to keep the original setting (“Normal”) when using an unbalanced "That is from the owner's manual. try reading it.I use both the balanced to my Bryston BP-26, and the RCA to the Conrad Johnson ACT2 |
Hry shadow cat. Room adjustments are many times can be a bigger jump in equipment. I almost got the 14s1 last year but settled for the 8005 until finances would allow. I had a chance to buy an Sa10 for $4400 Last year and just couldn't do it at the time. The seller offered it to me at the low price because of an inferior product he sold me 15 years ago I think. I won't say who he is but he is one of the good ones left |
@riaa... etc. Hey rhea, no trashing going on. More of an abstract musing on how designers conceive of what they're doing and what their goals are. Before some DACs had filters, there were those cubes that came with B&W, KEF, etc. That always irritated me too. If the correct sound was *with* the cube, why were the cubes optional? If the cube exaggerated the bass, why were they available at all. I suppose one could make an argument about different rooms acoustics, but those cubes were hardly a Lyngdorf. |
astru"I believe the point of the settings is that the PCM format is not lossless, and Marantz provides the option to play with different settings because there is no agreed way to reconstruct the original acoustic signal." You do not know what you are talking about PCM audio is a clearly established, defined and standardized format there is absolute, complete, and universal agreement about how to recover an analog signal from a PCM data stream and this recovery can be done as has been demonstrated completely error free so it is absolutely bit-perfect "lossless" and there is no debate, uncertainty, or alternative to this scientifically developed protocol so you might want to check your research, references, and facts. |
Yeah, but the Marantz in not using PCM to recreate the signal. The SA-10 is using DSD with upsampling of the DSD plus other unique stuff to decode the signal.And I have to say if you think the PCM decoding is 'perfect' and always gives the exact same answer from the same digital read every time from every player playing the same disc... You are deluded. they may be similar. but they are often only approximations of the 'same'. Otherwise why do different chips sound different?Why can one spinner read a disc, and another has errors? because they are not identical? Then the same it true of every decoder. They are not the same. Just because 'in theory' it can be perfect. Does not make it so in practice. |
I have had the display off since day one.(I love that the SA-10 can stay on, and the display stays off if I have it to Toslik with the other disc spinner on. (the SA-10 display will turn on if the digital connection is broken by the other player being turned off) And the phones output turned off. I did not remember if I had the digital out off. and trying from a distance, the readout is too small to see.. So getting closer I made sure it is off. But since I failed to see from a distance, I have no idea if it WAS off before. I have not played with that since I got it. |
Elizabeth, take a look at page 8, bottom of the middle section. They use the word "phase" for polarity. However, all you need to know if that the unit comes wired with pin 2 hot (+) and pin 3 cold (-), as I posted in my previous message. I do not know the XLR polarity setting for Bryston BP-26; the Luxman C900u in my system allows to set the polarity for each input and for the output. @clearthink: I have a PhD in engineering; the Redbook standard does not provide a guarantee for reconstructing perfectly the original acoustic signal |
Elizabeth, I mistyped something in my previous message. I meant to say "is that the unit" rather than "if that the unit". I am just trying to clarify the meaning of those Marantz settings. Clearthink, can you enlighten us with an explanation for bit-perfect acoustic waves? After that, we should get the discussion back on track to Marantz SA-10. This thread should be for people who own the player, had some experience with it, or may be interested in knowing more about the experience of those first two types of people. |
It was a real bummer when Sony decided to stop supporting the big SACD players that they produced in the late 90's. I bought one of them. At the time, I thought it was great that "Sony" got into the fray with high end because certainly, they will support the product for years and not go belly up. Well, we all know that transports for those two units are gone as is hope for their future. What to do? Will Marantz fair better? Joe |
Worse case scenario lets say 10 years from now my transport dies. I hope streaming units will have become user friendly and the sound quality will far surpass what we have now on Redbook CD. By that time I will be able to copy all my CDs with a super sophisticated quantum DAC that can decompress the horrid recordings of this decade. And maybe give it something a little extra in the resolution department. Im a little uncomfortable using ny transport all the time like Elizabeth warns, just how long does a top quality transport last anyway????? My Shanling T200 from 03 started giving me trouble reading discs about 8 years ago and got to the point 2 years ago where 90 percent would not decode. Shanling stopped supporting this unit years ago. I just hope Marantz is a more customer friendly company. I still wish it would work because after the Parts Connexion mod it was very musical. In some ways more than the Marantz. Fast bass attack. The midrange was more forward and that's not a bad thing for rock music. It now sits over on a shelf on top of my records.. I don't want to take it to the dump. Amazingly it will still play a Mamas and Papas remasted by Steve Hoffman. That is the only CD that it has consistently been playable without having to load it a dozen times. I will drag it out one day again. I will see. I'm happy with tbe SA-10. Its a keeper and have it well insured and an updated security system with cameras. They will have to take it out of my cold dead hands. Lol |
In all the years I have owned CD spinners, I have had units fail due to capacitors, motors failing, I have never had a laser go bad. IMO the reason for this is cleaning off the CD/DVD/etc with a soft ’blush (cosmetic) brush. EVERY TIME. no matter how clean they look, I brush them off. Why? Back when CDs came out, there were charts showing how close the reading head IS to the CD. A fragment of airborne smoke is a boulder, a thin human hair is as large as a big tree trunk to the gap. Consider it like driving down the freeway, (reading your data) and all over the place are large rocks and tree trunks as you smash into them trying to read to data road... So Soon your lens is going to look like a beat up useless pile. And IMO THAT is why folks spinners stop reading. No weak laser.. just a messed up lens. (rant over) Anyway, so I brush off every disc every time. |
Good point well taken. I dry brush every record before I drop the needle. All records vacuum cleaner, stored in plastic sleeves with album jackets. I clean all CDs too but not before playing. My Marantz has been skipping about every 30 hozrs of playing. The CD only loses a sec or two. The 8005 I had for 15 months never skipped. Will this get worse????? Like my Shanling not being able to read discs less and less. I remember In 05 it started having trouble reading SACDs I might have to give it 3-6 reloads but it would go. It would never play Tommy. When I had to have it serviced up North around 05. The Yankee said if it doesn't play or has trouble playing a disc now and then don't worry. It was only SACDs at that time. If I had made him fix it while they still had replacement parts it would be working today!!!! Thanks for your professional opinion whoever you were. I hope you read thus post. Hey doctor it hurts when I move my arm a special kind of way. WELL DONT MOVE IT THAT KIND OF SPECIAL WAY!!! NEXT. |
Listening via headphones (Rudistor RPX33 mkII, Sennheiser HD800) and checked the 'options' Definitely like noise shaping mode 4-0. At least to play Deep Purple "Machine Head"!And discovered the AC plug into the Rhodium duplex, the sound is more mellow than in the gold Furutech (from Furman REF20i Technical power section)I know some would listen via the Marantz SA-10. but I own the Rudistor, (which is a really great headamp) and the Senns phones cord it attached to the rack next to it. So the music comes out the SA-10, through the Bryston BP-26, to the Rudistor on Tape out.I could see trying the SA-10 out. But I refuse to cut the zip tie holding the phones cord just to satisfy some imaginary audiogon reader. |
I think the headphone jack on the SA-10 us dandy. Detailed and what Rain man might say, "sparkly". I still like the filter one setting and factory default on the other settings. I just out the new Zaolla silverline balanced interconnects on the 14b3. Music has a little more zip and excitement but leans a little to the edgy side. I know silver can be brutally revealing bring out a components weakness. Music has a little more impact and that is expected since silver is a faster conducter. The KGACs were fast and some songs that start out woukd actually jolt me a little. I finally gave up on them because they were to revealing to the older equipment I had. I wish I had kept them but hey trade in for new toys is the game. I did burn them in for a week in my cable cooker and that helped. I hope the Zaollas break in and mello some. I stay on the filter 1 setting. I still use the factory default settings on the other sound shaping options. This player is the bomb. It decodes a fantastic digital signal into a lush landscape of sonic pleasures. With that said, however I'm not retiring my TT. |
I threw out my (KImber) KCAG years ago. They are 'old school' sound and not the most revealing IC. (actually sold them to Used Cable.) MY current IC are Kimber KS1016 (RCA) and KS1116(XLR) with a few pre-buying of KS series, Cardas Parsec. IMO modern cables walk all over the early ones. There really is advancement in cable design. |
bluerangerMuch Thanks! for providing your thoughts/impressions on the SA-10.The hope lies in Marantz learning from Sony/Philips on "not" what to do on their Reference spinners. Keep all marketing tactics in place for entry, mid and highest end players. Additionally, reach out and touch this company w/ an email or phone call expressing your pleasure with their Digital products. Inquire about their intentions to stock essential/critical parts as well. Happy Listening! |
I have to say the Marantz SA-10 has more detail and finesse than my LP playback does. The LP playback is different, but more veiled. I would need a lot better phono preamp to get ahead of the curve again with the LP playback.I own a Kuzma Stabi/Sogi S arm with a Dynavector 17D3 to an Audio Research Sp-15 I keep just for the the three tube phono. Before the SA-10 it was the top of my listening experience. It is good, but now I think it could be better with a top drawer phono preamp. |
Replacing all my duplex outlets and installing Furutech GTX-D (either gold or NCF-Rhodium) has really brought the Marantz SA-10 abilities out. I do not think I would have found the new duplex to be nearly as much of a 'game changer' if I did not have the SA-10 as a source.Equipment that can just seem better and better? The Marantz SA-10 is one of those. |
@elizabeth do you have isolation transformer or other power conditioning device in your system? I use Torus AVR30 wall mount (I live in 240V country). It was only after I have the SA-10 I know the true capability of my system. My SA-10 is in its second week. I don't think the break in has completed but it's sounding better and better. In my experience, playing discs directly using SA-10 transport gives the best results followed by a high-performance USB thumb drive. My hard disk player (Sony HAP-Z1ES) is not up to the standard of SA-10. While the Sony supports gapless playback in all formats, the sound is inferior when using SA-10 USB Audio input. I think to get the best from USB Type B input, need a much better player/streamer costing close to SA-10. I wish SA-10 supports gapless playback when playing from USB drive. Right now it mutes with relay clicks at the beginning of each track which is annoying. I hope Marantz will fix this through firmware upgrade. |
anwar, yes my SA-10 is connected to a PS Audio P=600 regenerator.All my digital gear is to the PS Audio, and my analog gear to a Furman REF 20. The amplifier is to the wall plug. I do not use the USB input on the SA-10. anwar, Have you called Marantz help line? See what the number is on the Marantz website (For your location) and give them a call about the USB issue.. |
elizabeth, it is a well know issue for SA-10 when playing from USB thumb drive. please see the 2nd paragraph from the link below: http://help.nativedsd.com/handling-and-playing-dsd-files/file-management/creating-a-gapless-playback... I just hope Marantz will fix this. |
I'm trying to get more into classical music with the SA-10 in the house. I scored yesterday at a thrift store going out of business. 25 cent CDs!!!! I bought 20 classical titles. Strauss, Horowitz, with Telarc and Grammaphone for the labels. I love the sounds of the orchestra for a change. I don't see how a record could sound any better with some of these. The better the recording. The better your system will sound. Didn't mean to de rail the thread here. |
blueranger.. I am listening to Beethoven String quartets right now. (Denon label box set I must have bought back in the 1980's ) with the Smetana Quartet. Divine sound. If you watch Amazon sometimes Classical box sets are pretty cheap (other times pretty expensive) but if you watch and just stick a pile on your wish list, sometimes it pays off and you can get them are a good low price. |
I was like that with Jazz. I never liked Jazz growing up. Only Jazz album I had was "Time Out" by Brubeck. (when I was young I liked Classical most, as well as Rock) Anyway, on up to 1990's and I watch "Ken Burns Jazz". Suddenly I GET Jazz. never understood before, but now I get it. I started buying Jazz on LP and CD. (Lucky too since it was a lot cheaper on LP than in the 80's) Now I mostly still listen to Classical, and then Jazz. With periods where I like a few Rock tunes. As far as music goes. Classical is like a whole new Universe of possibilities compared to Rock. I would suggest not burning out on symphonies though!! (newbies usually start and get hooked on symphonies) The real meat of Classical is in the chamber music. Quartets, Sonatas.If all I had on a desert island was the Beethoven Piano sonatas, I would be happy. You can never run out of Beethoven.. |
I think the quartet form is an interesting one for Rock and Jazz fans as it also has the (usual) four artists playing against/with one another.Quartets are one of the backbones of Classical music. Schubert quartet: "Death and the Maiden"Beethoven "Middle Quartets’ Rasoumovsky #s 7,8,9 (there are box sets of Beethoven quartets on Amazon for like $17 for all of them. Great deal. (by Hungarian Quartet, or Tokyo Quartet) Actually cheaper to buy the whole box. I JUST BOUGHT both of the above in the middle of typing this. I actually just ordered three Beethoven Quartet complete sets and a complete set of Beethoven sonatas. 7,7, and 9 (the nine includes Bartok Quartets, not for the fainthearted!) , sonatas, 10CDs. so 34 Classical top notch CDs off Amazon for $75. shipped.(One odd thing typical of Amazon, others like Emerson version of Beethoven Quartets, I bought before for $15 are now $35..) One of the lovely things about Classical is interpretation can change the whole thing. So For the likes of me, having five different sets of Beethoven quartets is a good thing. |
My go to Classical composer is Beethoven. He is clearly the top dude of all Classical composers. If I could only play the music of one guy, it would certainly be Beethoven. After that it becomes more personal, Bach vs Handel vs Brahms vs Debussy vs Stravinsky vs Mahler. All different styles for different tastes. Then there is Opera. |
d2girls, I would say the difference between SACD and CD is all in the player. With the Marantz SA-10 the difference is made even smaller than usual. Since the decoding of the CDs is done with DSD also.One of the main reasons I BOUGHT the $7000 Marantz SA-10 is to play a LOT of regular CDs. (I only own a few SACDs, but own over 2,500 CDs)I never liked SACD due to the strange effect of they have no ’background’. As if the music flows out of a Black Hole... Instead of a room. Some folks love that effect. I do not. So I stayed away from SACD. The Marantz SA-10 playing regular CDs does not ’do’ that to the CDs it plays. So IMO the effect is in the mastering? not the playback.And not the playback of CDs using DSD.So for the few SACDs I own that are dual disc, no difference worth shouting out about. And I have no plans to buy any SACDs. CD is fine by me. |
Well over a hundred hours. Got it July 30th. It's been running 80 percent of the time. I've been out recovering from surgery since June 29th. Listening maybe 4-6 hours a day. It's sound is captivating. It will draw you in. I found myself listening to the same CD twice in a row many times. The sound just makes listening pleasurable. I tried some badly made discs and even though it didn't transform them it took a large part of the stridency out. An example of some great discs are Victory at Sea by Telarc is awesome. The Theme from Shaft (80s version) is also superb. |
2nd Note; feel free to list your system gear, like Elizabeth, so that those of us who search for a demo can have a running list of brands that are sonic matches with this very special player. Due to its price, there will be a limited audience and or interest from the majority of the audiophile community. Additionally, there is a small niche' of us who own massive CD, SACD collections that continue to grow every year. This is not a bad thing at all. Happy Listening! |
