Mating power cords with APL 3910

I'm using a Michael Wolff Source cord with excellent results (they're now available at half price while they last). I also tried a TG Audio 688, which was very good, too. The Wolff Source cord provided a "smoother" texture to the sound...less edge...more natural sounding. This was true whether they were plugged directly to the wall or to a power conditioner. I am running the Wolff cord from a Hydra 4. I believe this is also important to note, since the sound of power cords will most probably be affected by the power conditioner being used.

I'd suggest trying cords that you either obtain used, or that you can try with a return policy. Speaking of cords with a return policy, Chris Venhaus also has a new cord...the AirSine...which may be worth investigating. It's designed to compete with the "best of the best" from Electraglide, Elrod, Synergistic Research and the like. I guess that makes me a shill for Chris...

Chris Venhaus is President of VH Audio.

Ozzy, thanks for your candor regarding the upper midrange glare. I experienced the same thing during break-in. It's important to share these idiosyncrasies so new users know what to expect, and don't start changing things...like power cords...too soon.

I can't comment on the Hydra 4 vs. Hydra 8 since I've never heard the Hydra 8, although I have to say I've never read anywhere that any Hydra product is current limiting. Can you provide a link or reference to something you read?

I have all my components plugged into the Hydra 4: VAC Phi 110/110, First Sound Presence Deluxe II, APL Denon 3910. The Hydra mitigates some edge in the upper mids and highs. Something on the order of 2-3%, if I had to quantify it. The effect is really one of ease and relaxation. I find with the APL going straight to the wall I want to get up sooner. I get fidgety. Frankly, this applies to any component that I run straight to the wall. Is the music more palpable? Is the soundstage wider or deeper? Is the bass tighter? I can't honestly say yes to any of these questions. The differences are much more subtle to my ears. I guess it just sounds more "live" through the Hydra. I certainly don't have any issue with limited dynamics using the Hydra, which is something one might expect with a conditioner that limits current.

Yikes. All this from a power cord? Apparantly, I've been concentrating on the wrong parts of my sysem. :)

John, I asked about the source of the Hydra info because conjecture runs
rampant on the web. If you come across a bona fide review that
mentions the current limiting issue, please let me know. I'm fairly
certain the non current limiting aspect of the Hydra is advertised by
Shunyta as a feature of the unit. The following quote is from a
Soundstage review . "The Hydras do not limit current in any way, so they’re compatible with pretty much everything in an A/V system."

Howard, I was being a smart-aleck insofar as I am dubious about all the
system benefits attributed to power cords. I know you're very tuned in to
the sound of your system, so I give your comments considerable weight.
I just know that what you hear in your system has more to do with your
choice of components and their synergy than it does with power cords.

Howard, whatever works is what's important. I played with 5Bs, 3Bs, 7As
,7Bs and massive marching sticks the size of which I can't recall. Maybe
my adaptability to several stick sizes was an early indication to make my
living in another profession. :)

Happy listening.

The Hydra conditioners also back filter in both directions as Davehrab describes above (although perhaps not in the same way...I don't know). This is explained on the Shunyata website under the description of the Venom filters.

Ozzy, what power cord do you use to feed the Hydra?

Sean, you've answered your own questions. You don't need to be greedy to improve product design. You just have to want to produce better products. Your talents are being wasted on Audiogon, my friend. But, who's fault is that?

John, are you stuck on the Hydra 8 for a particular reason, or would three Hydra 2 or some combination of Hydra 2 and Hydra 4 work?

Also, the Running Springs conditioners are interesting, but there's a dearth of user comments available here. Almost the only mention of them is from Dedicatedaudio, who is a dealer for the products.

John, other than the use of FeSi-1002 compund on the Hydra 8, I have
not read of filtering increasing through the Hydra product line either on
the Power Snakes website or in reviews, although I have read Clement
Perry's Stereo Times review in which he expresses his subjective opinion
that the Hydra 8 sounds better in some respects than the lower models.
Then, later in the review, he writes of the wonders of using two Hydra 2
conditioners together. That's safe reviewing, wouldn't you say? I believe
the rest is marketing strategy.

Why would anyone pay a premium to buy an 8 outlet power conditioner
for digital sources, which would at most utilize only 2 outlets? Doesn't
that seem wasteful? I'm also dubious of the real world effects of current
limiting unless one is using two enormous 600 wpc power hungry amps
at the first two outlets. This Shunyata web page talks
specifically of the non current limiting aspect of Hydra conditioners. Are
the marketing folks at Shunyata blowing smoke? After all, the
recommended configuration per Shunyata is to plug the amp into the
duplex closest to the IEC, followed by the preamp and finally the source
components. The reason being that amps require the most juice, and
source equipment requires substantially less juice, hence the rationale
for plugging the least power hungry components into the duplex
farthest down the chain. Unless one were to inexplicably plug an amp
into the duplex farthest from the IEC, I cannot fathom current limiting
being an issue.

As you might expect, I'm not of the opinion that two, three, or four
power conditioners are necessary. I believe that idea is solely born of
marketing and misinformation.

To answer your question, I have not tried more than one Hydra...or more
than one of any power conditioner I've owned, and if I were to do so, I'd
certainly try two Hydra 2 or two Hydra 4 conditioners first. If you are
inclined to try multiple conditioners, I hope you do so with an objective
ear, and please report back.

John, I believe the number of Venom filter elements directly correlates to the number of duplexes in each Hydra unit. Therefore, it makes sense the Hydra 2 would have fewer Venon elements than the Hydra 4, and the Hydra 4 have fewer Venom elements than the Hydra 6, etc. IMO, just because the Hydra 8 has 16 Venom elements, and the Hydra 4 has 7 Venom elements does not mean the Hydra 8 has more than double the filtration, it just means it has two more duplexes to filter. However, the number of Venom elements does not multiply out exactly the same for each Hydra model, so this would warrant a call or an email to Shunyata for explanation.

John, you may be correct, but I don't agree with you at this point in time. If your theory is correct, it seems to me there would be a substantial drop-off in performance from the Hydra 8 to the Hydra 2. If this is true, then Clement Perry's observations of the excellent performance of two Hydra 2 conditioners doesn't hold water.

I'm quite happy with the performance of my Hydra 4, and I don't plan to move up the Hydra food chain. Therefore, I don't have any need to contact Shunyata for the answer to the Venom filter question. But, as a potential customer, you might pose the question to them, unless you've pretty much decided to buy the Hydra 8 no matter what.

John, as you said, Samuel may have identified the two key points that explain the Hydra 8 vs. Hydra 2 observations that were made by Mr. Perry. An explanation in Mr. Perry's review as to the causes would have been educational and avoided some needless speculation. IMO, this discussion has beaten the topic to death, especially regarding Shunyata, and it would appear a stalemate is fast approaching.

Best of luck to you in your quest for power conditioning. I'm going to go listen to some music.

Ozzy, now that's what I call full use of the Hydra 8!

John, you might take a look at the PS Audio Ultimate High Current conditioner as an alternative to the Hydra 2. Does not limit current,filters common mode and differential mode noise, does not use MOVs for surge protection.

John, this page might be useful to compare power conditioners from several manufacturers. Also, the UPC-200 competes with the Hydra 4 and other products in this line are forthcoming.

Just FYI...

John, I look forward to Grant's response, too.
You asked: "I would like to isolated the high-current amps from
the low-current APL. And, if its is not too costly to isolate the right
channel from the left to reduce cross-channel talk and
contamination."

The UPC-200 has two isolated power cell modules that I believe
accomplish what you wish to do. From the PS Audio website:
"Each module is connected to a rear mounted Power Port and is
isolated from the second internal UPC module.  This arrangement allows
the user to separately power their equipment, providing isolation for
digital and analog, or power amps and source equipment, or video and
audio."

The PS Audio product comparison chart lumps all the Ultimate Outlet
products (including the UPC-200) into one category: Standard/HC/UPC-
200.

Regardless, having read on another thread about your system and your
power cord short list, it appears you are focusing on a certain price point
which is above PS Audio and other products I've highlighted. My posts
were attempts to offer value-per-dollar alternatives to the most
expensive Shunyata products, and other stratospherically priced power
cords. I'm preaching to the wrong congregation here, so I'm going to
wish you good hunting on your power cord/conditioning quest. I'm
certain your APL is going to sound terrific with whichever product you
choose.

I've been swapping an Electraglide Epiphany and Shunyata Python Alpha on a Hydra 2 that has alternately fed my preamp and amp or my APL. In every case, the Epiphany is more resolving and leads to a greater sense of place on acoustic music (the real test). The Python Alpha is a bit more organic, and I sense that it rolls of some of the HF. The difference is not drastic, and I could happily live with either.

In both scenarios, a Wolff Source Cord connected the Hydra 2 to the APL.

Epiphany (not X) between wall and Hydra 2.