Grey9hound: I didn’t take anything personal. I am just saying that the speakers I chose was simply because I felt like I had a great opportunity, I’ve been curious about it, I Believe it will be good but I won’t know until it’s here. Remember, I am going to also have a shot at trying some monster Monos that are being built as we speak. These will be put to the test in more ways than you can imagine.
I am not leaving magico to try something I believe will be inferior. However, that remains to be seen.
Lastly, the combo I’m getting ready to put together is one that no dealer and nobody has ever done before. I’ve got 2 dealers that will be here to hear this madness once everything is in place. Will I fail? We shall see...
|
I’ve got no interest in vinyl. I don’t hate it but I don’t plan to start buying records.
As far as amps, no it’s not momentum’s since I couldn’t get a deal done with anyone.
I will do what nobody thought could be done. I learn through this journey without really focusing too much on what magazines write. I plan on video taping this once they arrive next week. |
Mrdecibel: I like the way you are thinking :)
One hint: the Monos retail for $65k. Weight 200 lbs each.
|
I couldn’t lock in a deal on the momentums unfortunately. They will come I am sure. It’s all about timing.
The moon 888s are just too ridiculously expensive. |
No deals and those amps were mainly sold in Europe. They didn’t sell many of those here.
|
I don’t want you all to find out easily... |
Ok guys, so i need to give you all an update. A momentum piece has been finally been dealt with and I will be paying for this tonight. I will reveal soon what momentum piece I have bought ;) |
ok guys sooooooo today i bought the momentum integrated :)
i will have it next Friday just in time for the new speakers. Yes i know it is only 200 watts per channel, but i can finally say i will have hands on my first Dag piece. Very very excited. How bad will it whip my Diablo 300?
we shall see :) |
Told you all that things will get going once again.... that said, I’m close to the ceiling in terms of what I’ve always aspired to own. Will I ever own the 700k Wilson wamm and the 250k relentless monoblocks? Not part of my plan unless I win the lottery. I never thought I’d be this high up in regards to audio. I’m getting closer and closer.
Sure there are a few things I’d love to try but after that I don’t see anything else in the near future. I don’t see much change for a few years.
Stay tuned for the arrival of the speakers next week... they will have the gryphon Diablo 300, momentum integrated, and the mystery Monos next month....
Would you all be shocked if I decided to sell everything off and keep the momentum integrated, the new speakers and esoteric dac? Remember one thing, the speakers im getting are about 86-87db efficient so I won’t know if the 200 Watts of the integrated will be enough. I remember that one single Luxman amp wasn’t enough for the vivid audios. That said we know that the momentum integrated is probably underrated in terms of power and it’s probably more like 250 watts per channel.
Lastly, I chose these new speakers because several sources said one thing to me which is something I’ve wanted in a speaker which was “ that speaker played small or big in the same fashion. It does both spectacularly” and lately I’ve been having to listen to music at low volumes so my 2 year old doesn’t wake up. This is key for me in a speaker. It must play with all bells and whistles at low and high volumes.
|
|
|
Viber: I totally feel you there but it’s tough for me to make a u turn right now.
Has anyone here heard the momentum integrated? If so, what speakers? I’ve not read ONE BAD review about it or posting by anyone. The general public seems to have the same opinion about it which is that it is an outstanding unit that can take on expensive separates. |
Interesting mike. I really think and this is a gut feeling by the way that the integrated shouldn’t have issues driving most speakers but if the speakers are demanding then it will still drive them but you can’t be doing 95+ dB sessions. I think there’s a cap.
Something tells me that the integrated will make my jaw drop. I just have this weird feeling. I don’t have any issues keeping an integrated if it indeed can best separates or at least come within 90-95%
If I were to bet between the progression Monos with ref 10 combo vs momentum integrated, I’d put my money in the integrated. The momentun components are supposed to be on another level.
|
Jsqt: I didn’t get a chance to do that. However, the Luxman integrated is special. You’ll be very happy. Do me a favor, don’t turn it off. Leave it on and never turn it off. |
|
i have not said that i don't want horns. i have been told that horns are the way to go and it will be over. I am simply saying that if i don't like it, i will have a hard time selling it to move forward. I have been advised against buying horns if my journey is to keep going. Why? well because their 1800 aesthetics will be a problem for many.
hell i asked myself just now, WHY did i buy the momentum integrated if i am having doubts about it properly handling my new speakers?
i bought it because my good connection worked out a deal plus took a few of my pieces on trade AND i know this was the quickest and easiest way for me to begin exploring the Dag momentum house sound.
I have NEVER EVER heard it. Have zero clue as to what it sounds like and i have been itching to try it. Sure, i would have preferred some m400s, but if those don't show up then the integrated will give me the full taste of the amp/preamp synergy even though it may not be at the full scale of the m400, but it should give me most of the sound signature.
Lastly, yes the momentum integrated sells rather easy. Each time one lists, it is gone in a few days. This tells me that i should have no issue selling it if i find that it can't properly handle my new speakers. However, i REALLY doubt that because NOTHING that Dag has ever built under his new line has ever had issues driving any speaker. His designs are solid and built with Balls to drive anything out there. |
Bigdesign3: nice write up. I like your perception of Dan. That said, it’s very scary buying a unit that only puts out 200 watts per channel. Why? Well because you wonder if it can push a speaker with 87db sensitivity. You wonder if it can move those power hungry speakers. However, the fact that this piece is his design is indeed what keeps me more at ease. I did hear from a few people that it drove their Wilson Alexia really easy without issues.
That said, it appears that nobody who currently reads my thread has hands on experience with it. |
I’ve been trying to locate that current measurement. The voltage is about 42a I think. |
Problem with Chord is that you will need to probably sit on it for a very long time before someone wants it.
Yes I am ok. I am just hoping this thing can drive the new speakers.
I will know soon enough. |
Techno: so I get your point. Nobody wants to buy a Range Rover and be at the dealer constantly with electrical issues. It defeats the purpose of having such a nice car. However, I’ve never heard of a momentun catching fire or just having issues. Hell I want a ranger roger myself but their reliability has been exposed multiple times and it’s a car you don’t buy without warranty.
I want to say that the reliability conversation really doesn’t apply to anything that agostino has had his hands on. I’ve never had a Krell amp fail me that I can recall and the momentum stuff is supposed to bring things to a whole other level in terms of construction.
The truth is Amps hardly go bad because there are no moving parts. I think the only amp I had issues with was an emotiva amp (go figure). Everything else has been pretty solid for me. I also keep in touch with most people who’ve bought from me and they haven’t had any issues.
Actually, I do recall 2 issues but they were with tube amps and the issues seemed to be tube related so 3 amps out of 300+ amps which is less than 1%. That’s really nothing...
|
Hi Abyzz,
Welcome to the thread. Unfortunately I’ve never tried those brands you are asking about. I can say to you that I’ve good things about halcro but never owned it. For home theater, I think class d amps are the way to go and ATI has a 8 channel amp that is good for what you need while being relatively cheap. That would probably be my go to amp if I was building a home theater set up.
|
|
Abizzle: yes, the cinepro is a solid amp. very good power and great current on those amps. You should be ok with something like that.
Tommyu1: i am not quite familiar with your front end, but i did own both of the amps you have interest in buying. i think the Plinius sb301 mk2 is a great amp with lots of slam and dynamic, but it does not have the same quality of high frequencies that the 250.8 has. I find the 250.8 better with highs and mids, but it won't touch the Plinius on the lows. The bottom end on the Plinius sb301 mk2 was awesome and better than the plinius sa103. It really depends on what you are trying to do to your system. I personally never found pass labs as a brand known for the full bottom end. They were always somewhat flat sounding in the bass with the exception of the big boys like the xs150, xs300, 200.5.
If it were me, it would take the pass labs 250.8. You can always fix the bass by adding a sub. Not much you can do to fix grainy highs. |
Correct techno dude. Will the dag integrated best a Luxman combo ? Wouldn’t that be amazing to test and see?
Get ready. My mágicos are in their crates as of 2 hours ago. I’m moving to a whole new tier group of speakers. we shall see what these will bring to the table. I already have 3 types of amplifacation waiting for them.
Hint: they will be about 7 feet apart from each other and one foot off the back and side wall and I’ll be about 8.5 feet away from them.
|
Wow. I just got the momentum integrated and I’ve never seen anything like it. Incredible how amazing this looks.
I will be using some Sonus faber olympica 2s that I didn’t even know I had in the garage and see how this integrated compares to the gryphon. My new speakers won’t be here until probably early next week. |
Techno: although I see where you come from with the perception that they build
it to play with your mind, it can’t fool so many people. I mean, I’ve not heard one bad thing about this piece. Not one by anyone. Maybe you are right and I find out that it can’t beat the Diablo. It is almost 3 times as expensive as the Diablo so yes it should beat it quite easily. My mind is telling me that the Diablo will beat it in regards to the bass but it won’t beat it when it comes to mids and highs.
|
Hi jimmy,
i started with integrateds recently and only because I came up on some deals. My main objective are amplifiers here and right now I’m waiting on the next set of amps. As far as your idea, you are right, you’re not the first one to think of it :)
thanks for following the thread. |
Dominick: the Hegel h30 is awesome. That’s one great amp with enormous bass control. I can’t say anything bad about it but the Luxman 900u is a more refined component. |
You guys crack me up. Hey I had them in the corner in boxes and I have a bunch of stuff there that I need to sell off but I’m always too busy and don’t get around to it. I saw the boxes to the speakers and I remembered that I had those there. |
YG Sonja 1.3
wilson audio Alexia 2
wilson audio Alexia 1
wilson audio Sasha DAW
Martin Logan Neolith
Egglestonworks viginti
Nola concert grand reference gold
i have posted my next speaker on the list above.... tic tac... tic tac. What will it be ? |
I believe techno dude offered me his amp for me to buy it from him. He didn’t mention a trade for my gryphon. Hell yes the gryphon is amazing for the money. I could totally live happy with it for a very long time but there’s a mometum next to it that doesn’t let me look at the gryphon :) |
Stay tuned. The shootout will commence but be advised it will be brief. I get my new speakers Wednesday and family is flying into town on Sunday for 30 days so it will be tough to do serious listening unless I get pissed off and kick them out of the house during the daytime on weekends so I can let tbe volume know turn clockwise until it can’t turn anymore. |
|
I will announce the speakers within the next few days. They are black color, can be biamped and some say they have zero competition under 100k. Will that be the case ? We will see.
|
I’m starting to get concerned as to why the mágicos m3 are now being sold again... those are supposed to be amazing speakers and they keep getting listed. I believe the seller is the guy who bought them from the dealer that was selling them here for a long time. He must have had them 2 weeks now ? Starting to wonder what’s happening. |
Mrdecibel,
when I say “ I can live with this equipment and be done” I mean that it is a great sounding piece that doesn’t really make me miss the superior components I’ve owned. It means that I feel it is a well rounded component but I don’t mean to say it is better than everything else ive owned. Through my journey, I’ve learned to identify those more “affordable “ components that I could be happy with if I had to create a more affordable set up in a smaller place. The gryphon Diablo is essentially one of these components. it is full bodied, big soundstage and it can drive a lot of speakers out there. It showed me what an integrated is capable of and it killed my idea of “integrated amplifiers aren’t good”. That’s far from the truth. As a matter of fact, do you know WHY many manufacturers don’t build expensive integrateds? Because most people want real estate when they spend big money. Most people want to see monoblocks and a preamplifier if they are going to spend big money even if the same manufacturer was to build an integrated that has the same topology as their amps and preamps and it sounded the same as separates.
Imagine if gryphon made an integrated that was the collesseum amp and pandora preamp? Nobody would want it even if it was half the price and yet it sounded no different than separates. Why? Too much money that people don’t want to spend just for one component.
The mometum integrated is a s200 amp with the momentum preamp. That said, it has one thing going for it which is that it looks like nothing else out there and this alone keeps it being a desired item for many. Hell, I had a dealer asking me to sell it to him once I’m done so he can post it on his site so he can get traffic which allows him to make more sales of other products. Make no mistake that Dan knew he wanted a component that not only sounded good but that also stood out from the rest and let me tell you it DOES stand out. Am I a fan? I’m a fan of what he did throughout his entire career.
Bottom line, there are a few affordable components that I can highly recommend for those of you can’t go to the ultra high end stuff. Make no mistake that these aren’t better but they give you a great taste of what is above them.
|
Remember one thing: most (if not all of you) have either only been told the Neolith isn’t good OR you heard it at a show and you sat on the last row with a ton of old bald heads in front of you while they played some crazy stupid music you have never heard before. If there’s an actual Neolith owner here then speak up. I want to hear from you or else I’ll review it and will give you my take.
Lastly, I understand electrostatics aren’t for everyone. I totally get that, but if you are only talking because you have heard other electrostatics and you didn’t like them so you assume the Neolith is no different then you are already coming in with a biased opinion.
I happen to like panels and conventional woofer/tweeter speakers. Both do exceptional things and it’s a matter of taste. Let’s wait and see what they will bring to the table. Patience guys...
|
The bat gear is gone. As far as momentum vs pass, no pass amplifier that I’ve owned has sounded as close to tubes as this momentum integrated. Not even the xs150 I owned. The momentum integrated is THE CLOSEST to tubes I’ve ever heard.
|
Alright men,
my speakers have shipped. Tonight I will reveal my new speakers. Stay tuned ;) |
Well I will update you all tonight about a preliminary shootout of the gryphon vs momentum. I am using some cheap revel gem2 on stands. Yes don’t laugh, I also had these in the garage somewhere. The olympica 2s have departed my home today. Preliminary update coming to you all soon. |
|
Ok guys,
so after many weeks and countless nights of deciding what would replace my s5mk2, I considered many options. I was very very close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Alexia 2s but the store blew the sale due to their demeanor so I walked away (glad I did). My heart was set on a pair of Alexia 2s simply because I wanted to see what they were capable of. I felt like the Alexia 1 was old news although still a worthy contender.
I then had a chance to get a pair of magico m3s and the day I was going to pay for them I was told by the store who had been trying to sell them for about 4 months that someone else had bought them the same day I called to pay for them.
So, I was bummed out and felt like if something doesn’t happen for you then there’s a reason for it. No need to force things.
I then had a few conversations with several people and dealers and the stars finally aligned, we agreed to terms and price so I am now the proud owner of Martin Logan Neolith. :)
i read so much on these and had (still do) many people who belittle their capabilities.
However, I just couldnt believe it. I mean I remember owning the Martin Logan renaissance and living with them the longest out of any speaker. I actually owned the 15a twice. So how can the Neolithi be a failure? Just doesn’t make any sense.
The so called “small sweet spot” is something I never really detected so I never thought of it. I listen to music alone so how can a “small sweet spot” affect me?
yes guys, im back to my roots with panels. I also felt like the fact that these are passive woofers is a great thing because I’ll be able to really see what amplifiers are made of. This speaker drops to 0.5 ohms at 20khz. I will be taxing the hell out of amplifiers with it. This speaker will be an excellent tool by which I can judge amplifiers. I don’t care to listen to the bs that some have said about this speaker. The only person whose comment I can take into consideration would be the person who owned it And lived with it. I can’t go by what people heard at shows. Shows are sometimes pure bs. First, there’s a bunch a chairs and people in front of you. Second, half the time they play elevator music or music that is played at a spa while you are getting a facial. Lastly, I want to really know what this beast will sound like in my room, with my music, my front end and I simply DO NOT believe these speakers will disappoint. PERIOD. IF the 15a Logan’s didn’t disappoint then why the hell would these me inferior?
i went all out and selected the best speaker Martin Logan makes today and I’ve owned pretty much all of their current electrostatics with the exception of the Neolith. It was time for me to catapult this journey to something I didn’t think I would own.
You all WILL KNOW from MY EXPERIENCE whether these are worth their price tag or not. Forget what others who only heard it a shows have to say.
|
Neolith is 87db based on the actual measurements. Not an easy to drive speaker.
The color is black gloss. I didn’t get the gorgeous red because when it’s time to part ways I’ll hear potential buyers complain about the color being too loud. Black gloss is a color that nobody has issues with.
Although I did want to try the Alexia 2s, I couldn’t work a deal with the dealer and they were too rude. Maybe in the future I’ll try Alexia 2.
The Neolith should be something special. I don’t think I’ll be disappointed and I say this simply because I’ve owned many electrostatics and not once have I been dissatisfied.
|
|
Mikepaul: your 15a is an awesome speaker. I always have flashbacks of that speaker. Just crazy detailed and a 3D effect that always sounded jaw dropping to me.
The 15a is really the reason why I am going to the Neolith. That speaker was so good that my mind wants to hear how much better the Neolith will be.
Unfortunately, there are not many Neolith owners that can speak about it. I believe that there are less than 50 pairs of Neoliths around the world which is WHY you don’t see then listed here. The only time one pair listed was a pair from Europe which really doesn’t count. Not one pair has ever been listed domestically EVER and these speakers have been out for about 4 years now. This will always protect the resale value of this item and as I was told by Martin Logan, the. Neolith won’t be replaced for at least 10 years or more.
|
The momentum is easily the best all in one box I’ve owned. Again, I feel like this could easily beat many separates out there. Trust me that I don’t see a reason why anyone would have a single complaint about this piece. There’s simply nothing to fault it other than MAYBE I wish it was 400 watts into 8 ohms but I’m sure that’s what separates are for.
|
Wilson will have to wait. The Neolith was a much harder acquisition for me. The Alexia 2 will be on the used market soon.
Techno, you sound like you already know the Neolith is going to demolish the mágicos lol. Is this why you are requesting for the Alexia 2s ?
I’d be shocked if the Neoliths don’t blow away anything else I’ve owned. I expect them to come in and just shock me. |
Techno: one of the biggest things that the Neolith brings to the table is dynamics. I confirmed this through a few of my sources. The Neolith is the most dynamic ever built by Martin Logan. Essentially, the dynamics not present in the other models are present on this model. The massive panels is indeed what makes the difference. A bigger panel isn’t just a little more sound than the model below. You wanna know HOW I know? I owned the 13a and 15a at the same time. It took me one day to realize how much better the 15a is over the 13a. It was a huge difference between both. The extra panel surface on the 15a just made it sound 10 times bigger than the 13a. Imagine the gab between the Neolith and the 15a.... yes, the dealer I bought all my Logan’s from has all the models on the floor. He sold me the 15a and told me I would be floored. I went with what he said and yes it was an awesome speaker. He continued to tell me for the longest that the Neolith (which he has on his floor) is just the best he’s heard. He had yg Sonja, persona 9h, 7f, Sonus Faber cremonese (which I also owned) and he again, showed me videos of all of these speakers on his floor and he said it “ the Neolith is on a whole other level, remember when I told you the 15a was amazing? Well I’m telling you once you hear the Neolith you will fear going into anything else because the huge sound is intoxicating and no conventional speaker can compensate for it. You’d need a speaker costing 100k+ in order to bring the Neolith any sort of fight”. Again, I’ve been doing business with this person for a long time and he’s really never steered me into something I hated. As a matter of fact, he also has Alexia 1s on display and said the neolith makes them sound broken.
I flew in to listen to the Neoliths last year and I remember not liking the Alexia after hearing them. I remember they sounded muffled in comparison. That said, all I gathered was that the neolith sounded huge like Godzilla and everything else sounded lethargic and small in comparison.
This feeling of “small” is what most speakers sounded like to me after hearing the Neolith. Of course, overtime your ears get adjusted to it so I forgot how big they sounded. If you were to hear them next to another speaker then you’d realize how much bigger it sounds.
Remember, panel size makes a HUGE difference with panels. That is like swapping out an engine. It is that much better.
|
I had the wife sit down just now and played one song for her: “you and your friend” by dire straits. She heard it on the Diablo and the momentum. Both integrateds have been on for the last hour. Her words were and I quote: “ the shiny one seems to sound more engaging and brighter” and the black one sounds like it has less treble.
Lol.
Well I will do more listening tonight and try to translate what she meant plus post my opinion. |
Yes mikepaul. The Neolith will strip naked any amp that doesn’t have balls under the hood. It will get bright sounding at moderate volumes and it will present loose bass.
That said, are you all ready with my preliminary findings on the gryphon vs momentum?
Well, here I go:
momentum:
1. The very best integrated I’ve heard. Even more satisfying than the belcanto black.
2. Immense detail, soundstage and a level of liquidity that I don’t remember hearing from any other component I’ve owned.
3. Gorgeous highs and the mids are just perfect. They are evenly balanced.
4. More detailed than the gryphon. More clarity, more 3D effect with a sense of depth that the gryphon can’t match.
5. The most tubelike sound I’ve ever heard from any other solid state piece I’ve owned.
6. The blackest backgrounds which result in music coming the from the back and with long VERY LONG decay. Instruments linger in the air for seconds longer than on the gryphon.
7. Engaging, romantic and with a presentation that makes you want to sit and listen.
8. Amazing sound even at low volume (<85db)
Gryphon Diablo 300:
1. Awesome muscular sound signature
2. Big soundstage
3. More mellow highs when compared to the momentum.
4. The background is silent but nowhere near that of the momentum.
5. The best bang for the buck without a doubt. You get a lot more here for the money than on the momentum.
With that said, and again this is my preliminary feeling, the momentum is just on another level. Had I not heard the momentum next to the gryphon, I wouldn’t have heard the flaws or weakness on the gryphon. The momentum just exposes them with ease. At 3 times the asking price of the gryphon, the mometum is not only better built and far more beautiful but so is its presentation and overall sound. This integrated is really an integrated to compare against separates.
I will spend more time with them and the Neolith in the next few weeks so I can examine the bass and give you my feedback as to who has better bottom end. For now, the mometum bests the gryphon on highs and mids.
|
Techno: I want to let you know that typically in this hobby it is hard to beat a component by choosing a component that is half the price. It’s a different budget constraint for the engineers designing it.
For example, you think I’m going to try and beat the Rowland 925s by choosing Amps that retail for 30? It’s just not possible man. There are tier groups for a reason. I know that no Parasound is going to beat the Rowland’s. It’s just not possible man. I’ve tried this before in the past and failed miserably. The Luxman is meant to fight the progression line and not the momentum. The momentum is for the Rowland 925s, constellation, soulution, etc. Heavy hitters if you will. If your mom gives you 50 dollars as a kid to buy shoes, and mine gives me 150, I don’t care what shoes you buy for $50 dollars, you won’t match my Jordan’s. You know what I’m saying?
|
Well that’s being too broad though. Are you saying that the Neoliths are all just paint and a prettier design than the plastic looking cheaper models? Not the case man... same with Wilson. Is the Alexx just a bigger Alexia but not really better? Far from the truth...
Anyhow, I’ve said Parasound multiple times and now I might try a pair of jc5s for fun and see what these do that the old jc1s didn’t do. |
The jc1s had amazing bass control. Far better than many amps out there. It reminded me a lot of the Hegel h30. It didn’t have the best highs or mids but they weren’t lacking either. The bass really stood out though. It drove the 800d2 I had briefly with crazy bass control. The entire recliner vibrates when I pushed it.
I may biamp the Neolith though. I think this speaker is that speaker that can be tons of fun and almost like an experimentation needs to happen with it at all times to bring the very best from them.
How many of you really think the Alexia 2 would kill this Neolith? I bet nobody would place a nice bet against the Neolith losing a battle against anything that retails for less.
Hell I haven’t owned the speaker yet and I know I couldn’t bet against this speaker. Not until I own and have hands on experience. The biggest sounding speaker I’ve owned was the vivid audio g1. That sounded massive and fast sounding.
|
Techno: before Ria comes here to slam you, the integrated is 45k. Not 65k... |
