Whitecamaross,
We integrated our stereo into a home theater system, with an emphasis on stereo.
We have two Pass XA-200.5's (mains) and three Pass X-250.5's (sides, center/sub, rears) with Meridian 800 digital electronics and Wilson speakers.
Regarding the heat - it's nothing our central A/C can't handle.
Regarding the sound quality, when I took our family to the movie theater - our 2 children both said wow once the show started. I impulsively asked them if everything was OK - and if they like the gigantic screen? They both said they were amazed on how good our home theater sounds!
Me, I enjoy music and reading your reviews.
Keep up the good work and thanks for your insights :-) |
whitecamaross - so hoping you get the Alexia II's.
It's the speaker I've been wanting to get.
It would be fantastic to get your perspective on them. |
whitecamaross - I had the good fortune to meet and talk with John Atkinson. I believe he's more like us than he is different. That said, I'm fairly certain that he is aware that he is employed by a magazine that promotes our high end audio equipment commodity and industry.
He better serves everyone if he states things positively - equipment manufacturers, consumers, the magazine that employees him and the industry in general.
He is undoubtedly aware of the impact of his statements, and attempts to get the best performance from a product and accurately describe it's character, it's strengths and weaknesses.
I don't think we would want to rip apart a company's product and possibly contribute to it's demise, but rather demonstrate the product in the best possible light - while accurately explaining it's weaknesses.
The only exception I take with the magazine is they usually don't evaluate a product that doesn't advertise in (and support) it's magazine. |
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Guys, can we leave this thread for whitecamaross to share his experiences with us?
Taking the thread sideways does no one good.
Contributions from others are great, and we are all different. whitecamaross has keep his thread going because many AG members are interested in what he has to say.
Can we let him and his thread continue without the getting adverse with each other? |
Unfortunately, the Wilson speakers are out :-(
They cannot be bi-amped.
I still am looking forward to whitecamaross getting a pair of Alexia's in and what he has to say about them. I've only read good things about them and would like to have a pair in our home - while series II would be nice, I'm confident series I makes beautiful music.
Fed Ex is delivering our front end electronics today (Meridian 861v8 and 800 transport), they were out for repair / upgrade - so my family and I are eager to listen to music again. |
techno_dude - I'm a Wilson owner, for decades with over $72k invested (stereo and home theater with a major priority on stereo). So, I'm admitting that I'm Wilson biased when I say this:
Martin Logins are a special speaker, I've heard the 15's.
They were paired with a Rel sub-woofer and I was stunned with the dramatic improvement in imaging the Rel sub-woofer made. With the right music, I was very impressed with this pairing - very.
While I'm eager for Alexia II's, I'm baited to read whitecamaross describing his Neoliths.
Fed Ex left us a note yesterday, couldn't leave our Meridian delivery because no one was home to sign. Delivery is due back today, can't wait to get our system operational. |
whitecamaross and techno_dude - the size of the panel makes a dramatic difference in the speaker, and it effects much more than merely the size of the imagining (imaging being a critical issue).
The size of the film allows the speaker to reproduce signals with much greater
coherency, fidelity, dynamics and authority. The speaker doesn't work nearly as hard and experiences significantly less distortion (something I observed with a pair of Vivid B1 speakers I got to demo in our home). Increasing the (active) driver size improves both strengths and weaknesses of this speaker.
What I immediately recognized with the ML's I heard was how well integrated they were (they use a single Mylar film driver with a crossover for bass only). Few speakers match it (in this regard). Think of Quad's (EL34?) and how well they reproduced midrange rich music. Reminds me of the Classic 60 and then the V-70 Audio Research tube amplifiers I enjoyed early in my audiophile journey. Beautiful midrange, decent highs, fat bass. But beautiful midrange - few could match it, none for a competing price (at that time).
Well, think of the Neoliths as a fully integrated version of the Quad's.
I would be shocked if it didn't sound better than the Alexia II's - it is almost twice the price.
We're starting to get into a serious performance level, so evaluating things becomes critical. Small steps make dramatic improvements in the rendition / illusion of a live performance. And in my humble opinion, at this level - recreating the illusion of a live performance is what it's all about.
PS: Even a statement piece like the Neoliths are not without limits.
PSS: whitecamaross - I've never written this much on a single post. We're ALL awaiting your evaluation(s) :-) |
mikepaul - our Meridian pieces came in, Marc Koval did the repairs/upgrades. Marc has become our "go to guy" of all things Meridian since our local retailer no longer carries the line. Marc is EXCEPTIONAL!
Work and supporting our neighbor (who's 21 year old son OD'd) has kept me from setting up and configuring our system. I apologize for the negative in such a positive thread.
I will most certainly post once our system gets up and breaks in.
Have to admit, I'm really eager to what whitecamaross experiences with the Block amplifiers, a quick inquiry from the provided links seems very promising.
We have a great group and an special leader in this thread!
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Viber6 - I would really enjoy the opportunity to share an early evening of music. I live in central NJ and am finding your offer hard to believe (meant in the most complimenting way)!
Count me in, I am very much looking forward to the experience.
Thank you for your kind, generous offer!
Most sincerely, Thomas Foti. |
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I thought this thread was great before . . . .
Did I say I can't believe viber6's kind offer? |
I'm humbled and grateful viber6, very much looking forward to meeting you!
Thank you again for you kind offer :-)
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Whitecamaross,
First - a safe, healthy, prosperous and Happy New Year to all :-)
I've heard the Lamm 1.2's, a while ago but the key points still very much remembered. The equipment was familiar - Wilson Sasha I's, Meridian 861v6, high end MIT Oracle cables. The listening session was an extended, private session at a high end retailer in NYC with other audiophiles.
I was doing this because we were going to invest in amplifiers for our integrated theater system (our set up has an emphasis on 2 channel audio) and I wanted to specifically evaluate the Lamm 1.2's.
Before I comment - I have to state when evaluating equipment (and set ups for that matter) that my personal objective (with our system) is to recreate the live performance as convincingly as possible, with my reference being actual live performances. While I cannot compare all recorded music to it's live performance, critiquing a system in this perspective distinguishes components in a manner that is different from outright performance. Case in point with the great Lamm 1.2's.
Our current system, while not near the level of performance of your system / components, strives to accomplish this and does so convincingly (I was astonished when our son played his saxophone in our music room and I play some well recorded saxophone music). Room acoustics play a very significant role as well (being an engineer, I crudely treated our room with good results).
Back to the Lamm 1.2's - after CRITICAL listening to Momentum amplifiers (the most similar to our own Pass XA200.5's but reviewed as having better bass in a major magazine - I couldn't tell this in that system and time frame), Spectral amplifiers (SLIGHTLY dry) and Lamm 1.2's (SLIGHTLY bass heavy).
The Pass and Momentum amplifiers reproduce and allow one to hear into the recorded venue as it was performed - something that is critical to me. In this system, most noticeably the Lamm 1.2's produced slightly more bass then the other amplifiers - a critical evaluation here but noticed by all present and confirmed by those present who were intimate with the performance.
BTW - the previous comments on the other amplifiers were also easily recognized and agreed upon by all present once properly described, except for the Pass / Momentum comparison - which is my own comment.
So, while the Lamm 1.2's were SLIGHTLY bass heavy in that system (synergy no doubt playing an issue here), with their performance being very very good, someone who evaluates equipment on outright performance might prefer the Lamm 1.2's because of their slight increased bass. Yet, when compared to the live performance, this SLIGHT increase in bass wasn't natural.
I hope not to get involved in any negativity that has occurred previously in this thread. I'm a humble individual who respects everyone's experiences and opinions and believe everyone benefits from sharing while respecting each other. I no longer have the time to go and evaluate equipment like I used to, and there are significantly less brick and mortar retailers with this level of equipment - so I very much value our sharing. This is the intent I post with.
While I have a million things to take care of daily, I will most certainly assemble a room and system that I'll be willing to share with fellow audiophiles with a sense of confidence. How long it will take me is a good question - and while others compliment our system, I think we all can agree that we're the most critical of our own system when sharing it with others (at least I know I am). I found myself explaining our system's limits / weaknesses after extended listening - while a few very good friends told me to shut up because they were enjoying the music!
Best New Year to all :-) |
I have a different perspective, it's not to say my perspective is "the right one" though I will say it's the right one for me.
I strive to assemble a system that reproduces the recorded performance and venue as it was performed, as accurately as possible - as if I / we were listening to the live performance being performed in our listening room. I strive for and admire a component that is ruthlessly revealing. Most live performances I've not listened to, but there are a minority of live performances I have listened to, and our moderately high end system reproduces them pretty darn well.
I strive for components that are ruthlessly revealing because I have found these components to bring the most lifelike reproduction of the music as it was recorded. Bad recording sound bad - make no mistake, and at this level of equipment performance - the quality of the recording is critical. Exposing myself, when wanting to "take in" a great performance, I've become extremely critical of software. But, with great recordings - the enjoyment of listening to a lifelike reproduction of a great performance is the reason I've invested in our audiophile system. It's for the enjoyment of (the illusion of) live music; great live music stirs our senses and moves our souls!
In addition to the quality of the recording, I've found with our system the venue of the recording is also another critical issue. Because our speakers and room aren't grand (we have Sasha I's in a 16' wide by 23' long room with the speakers across the 16' wide front wall), our system reproduces smaller acoustical performances convincingly and conversely doesn't do nearly as well with large orchestra performances (which I'm fortunate to enjoy live).
In the past when evaluating a component that "homogenized" sounds - that is, made recordings sound more similar (which helped poor recording sound better) - I noticed specific sounds of fantastic recordings weren't nearly as distinguished. I believe we can all agree that at this level of equipment performance, small performance differences (in addition to being very expensive) can be the compelling difference of reproduced music being involving as opposed to being enjoyable (all else being equal).
Without making specific references to equipment, an example of what I'm trying to convey; we were listening to a very well recorded acoustic performance, performed in a relatively small venue - which was great, like really great. Listening through my system - I mean we all really enjoyed that playback. It was a night I'll always remember. Then, I switched to the new component (which I previously experienced but didn't say anything about) and we heard a new, better defined recorded performance. Images were not only better defined and more 3D like, their separation and position, not only being able to identify what / where they were but what they were doing was dramatically improved. My guests just turned to me (after the performance was over) and smiled as if I did a bate and switch on them - all 3 of them! Even the applause after the performance was better defined and much more clearly distinguished as being in front of the performance instead of being integrated within the performance. We could even easily identify where the microphones were placed. Going back to my system before introducing the new component just wasn't an option. I relate this to when whitecamaross shared with us that he heard new things on the Neo's from a familiar recording - a performer walking across the stage which wasn't clearly defined / distinguishable with previous speakers (which I meant to ask if he felt the performance of previous speaker systems could have been improved with tweaking their set up?).
I still am very aware when I listen to really great systems because when I go back to my own system, I become very critical and - in some cases the past, I didn't enjoy my own system as much as before hearing an outrageous system.
So in conclusion for this comparison (for me and without listening to the both components), the Esoteric seems to be the component I would prefer over the Luxman.
We're all entitled to our own preferences, so long as we recognize and respect each others choices. |
viber6,
Thanks for the compliment - which I'll happily accept from a well respected source.
Your post is very insightful - I learned quite a bit in addition to being humbled!
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WC,
First - thanks for sharing, because without you many of us (me on top of the list) would not get these experiences.
Second - we each have our own preferences, I explained my preferences earlier - with the request that we each recognize and respect each other's preferences. You explained and I certainly recognize the desire to enjoy more music, especially music we've grown up with. There's a lot of merit to that (as I personally experienced disappointment with a lot of songs I grew up with). Explaining "sweatness" and being clear about it allows us to get even more insight with this journey! Again - a BIG THANK YOU!
I did want to ask a question about this past Saturday's listening session (and I don't find it odd that everyone in the listening session agreed on preferences because I've experienced that too).
Were all the cables the same quality / grade level when making comparisons? I'm not familiar with wireworld cables and that's why I'm asking. The same speaker and amp power cables were always used but the interconnects seemed to be different, in addition to being balanced (xlr) verse single ended (rca). I'm uncertain what was used first, then the platinum 8 rca interconnects were used and stated the dac's performance was more competitive. Were these cables the same as the balanced cables used with the ref10 and - most importantly, how do you think this effects the performance in each comparison? I understand the ref10 provides a higher gain output signal and allows for multiple inputs / sources to be used.
Finally - I would REALLY like to get your input on the Pass - XS 300 because these (and the Alexia II's) are the 2 components I would like to get one day (with our oldest going to college next year and 2 additional siblings behind him - I'm uncertain when that will happen). And, if I'm not being too selfish, you could make a comparison to the XA-200.5's (the amplifiers we now have).
THANK YOU AGAIN for sharing your experiences, it's something I look forward to absorbing within my crazy busy family and work schedule.
To everyone: I hope we all realize to appreciate wc sharing his experiences and preferences, think of what it would be like if wc were to stop sharing with us?
Most sincerely - Thomas (stassoc) |
whitecamaross,
I've pm'd you and offered to mail you at no cost a power cord which I found to have the most fidelity of ANY power cord I myself and multiple colleges have experienced.
While our system isn't at the level of your system, it has stunning fidelity and easily reveals component changes. Our system is: the same brand power cords I'm offering but one tier below their top power cord, Meridian 861v8 and 800, Pass 200.5's, Sasha I's, Sound Application RLS power conditioner (for front end components only), and the previous iteration of top tier MIT Oracle interconnects and speaker cables (well over $60,000 retail). I would eventually like to get our speaker cables and interconnects to be the same brand as our power cords (at the top tier) but don't have the funds at the moment (and our oldest will be going to college next year). I did compare the next tier down interconnects with our MIT Oracle balanced interconnects and our MIT's didn't compare. As a matter of fact, this was the post I made earlier here about a component switch I made with 3 other individuals - it wasn't a piece of "equipment" but rather the interconnect!
My offer includes:
1 - you return the power cord with insured shipping (at cables actual cost) at your own expense. You are also welcome to purchase it (terms I addressed in my pm to you).
2 - you not identify the cable (independent of results) until I clear it with the manufacturer (I stated I'm a dealer and need to clear things for multiple reasons).
3 - you not disclose the arrangement specifics with anyone.
After all is said and done, and I confirm things with my manufacturer (independent of results) you can share your findings on this post.
Please respect my reasons - especially if you don't understand them. I'm merely asking you to delay posting the results.
I offered this so I could get your feedback on how this power cable compares to the Odin power cord you have. I want another respected opinion (I would also ask that you switch out each power cable on the same piece of equipment - for the most meaningful, insightful comparison).
I also stated that this is the cable I found with the most fidelity (truth to the original performance) and may not be the one you like best because you define sweetness (very well I might add) as something you liked.
So now I've posted this for everyone to see, and I hope everyone will respect my offer.
Most sincerely, Thomas. |
