1. Home
  2. amps-preamps
  3. 1252450407

Need preamp recommendation

Well, the quest for the tube rolling didn't go anywhere after a quick phone call to a tube vendor who advised me that low noise tubes won't lower the background noise of the preamp. Unfortunately I need to replace my VTL TL-5.5 to something else with lower noise floor.

The new preamp must have very low noise. My amps have about 25dB of gain, and my speakers are 93dB sensitive. It can reveal small amount of idle noise too well, which was undetectable with the same speakers but with power amp of 15dB of gain. Also the new preamp must have low / no gain, or adjustable gain. My VTL has additional 20dB of gain, and it's just too loud.

Some of the preamps that piqued my interests are Aesthetix Calypso, Placette, and Sonic Euphoria. I've read some earlier models of Calypso suffered from noise issue. I'd like to hear from the owners with sensitive speakers and high gain amps if there is any noise issue.

I'd love to try the new TL-5.5 which was long announced, but I don't think it's shipping yet. Anyone from VTL reading this board?

Any other low noise preamp that I should consider? I'd like the tubes, but as tube gears have inherently higher noise floor I'll also consider solid states and passive designs. The budget is flexible, but I'd like to keep it under $3k. The new preamp will be driving Pass XA-30.5.
jylee

Showing 9 responses by tvad

tvad
9,467 posts
 
You seem keenly sensitive to noise that many people might consider normal,
as evidenced by your statement that you detected hiss with your ear placed
against the tweeter.

Because of your sensitivity to noise, I'm doubtful you're going to find a tube
preamp in your price range that's remotely quiet enough to suit your needs.

I agree with Guido. Buy a balanced, solid state preamp. You will have no
noise, IMO.

I use Pass Labs XA-60.5 with 93dB speakers, and I run it in balanced mode
with an SMc Audio VRE-1 preamp. Dead quiet (but it's over your budget).

Look into a used Pass Labs, Rowland, Klyne or Classe.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Be mindful of the output impedance of any tube preamp you might consider. It needs to be relatively low (I'd suggest under 200 ohms) to produce deep, articulate bass from the XA-30.5.

I used a Lamm LL2 Deluxe with good results (and it's in your price range). Also, a Juicy Music Peach worked quite well.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
I agree with Mitch2 regarding the degree of silence from the Lamm LL2 Deluxe preamp. I have owned two LL2 Deluxe preamps in two completely different systems, and both preamps had some hiss, but they overall sound they created was excellent.

That's why I originally stated that each of us has a certain level of noise we consider normal (or tolerable), and the threshold varies considerably from person to person.

The OP strikes me as one who willl not tolerate much preamp hiss.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Jylee, there's a long way between buzzing in the listening chair and system
noise due to tubes that's "normal" under most conditions.
Buzzing can be a sign of a grounding problem, or of a bad tube. Most
buzzing in my system has been caused by bad tubes, and the buzzing went
away with a tube change.

No argument intended.

Perhaps you can describe more precisely what type of noise, and how much
noise is tolerable to you. Is hiss heard from the listening chair during
moments of no music acceptable?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Jylee, is hiss heard from your listening chair during moments when no music is
playing acceptable?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
09-09-09: Jylee
No, I would consider any persistent noise heard on the listening chair when no music is playing unacceptable.
Then, I know of no tube preamplifier that will suit you.

Look for a solid state or passive preamplifier.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
09-09-09: Jylee
Tvad, I know you are trying to help, but have you really heard all tube preamps?

No I haven't, but I did not claim I had. I stated, "I know of no tube preamp..."

I have owned or heard in my system many very quiet tube preamps: First Sound Presence Deluxe II, Modwright 9.0SE, Audio Horizons TP2.1, Lamm L2 Reference, Atma-Sphere MP-3 MK III, Juicy Music Peach, Lamm LL2 Deluxe. All of these are fairly quiet, but the all make some degree of hiss.

The noise floor of VTL seems to be around -110dB with 1V signal.
-110dB in phenomenally low. About as good as you can get. Are you certain of this spec? How did you arrive at this figure?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
All the preamps I mentioned produced hiss during moments when no music
was playing, that could be heard from a distance of 8 feet away on either
89dB or 93 dB speakers.

Best of luck in your search.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Maybe you and I have different definition of noise or
hiss, or maybe your ears are more sensitive to hiss if you heard hiss from all
the high end tube gears that you have listed far in the sitting distance.
Jylee (System | Answers)

You have grasped the concept I wrote about in the beginning of this thread.

I have no problems with a minor amount of hiss during moments when no
music is playing, as long as the signal to noise ratio during music playback is
negligible. In other words, IMO, if you can't hear the hiss during the music
and if the music sounds good, then the hiss doesn't matter.

I suspect you are more sensitive to hiss than I, since you have stated that
*any* noise heard at a distance of 8 feet from the speakers translates to a
"broken" component.

When you find the tube preamp that suits you, please report back about the
model you selected.
More to discover