@wolf_garcia
No, would never suggest you shut the hell up!
@jjue
Thank you for the link, very interesting reading! |
@jjue
Many of those fine amps will be WAY out of my range, they are at the pinnacle of integrated amp engineering.
While 10k is not insubstantial it will bring me high level not the lofty heights! |
Speakers are Wilson witt series1
Not the most low power friendly units out there.....
On one aspect I am going to be firm, it will need to have digital inputs which does rule out a lot of aforementioned items I know. Yes I can add an extra DAC I know but if going for an integrated it may as well have everything..... well integrated!
Phono stage not so important as have a good phono stage I can use. |
While I do not disagree that desiring an onboard DAC may compromise my sq a little do not forget this is for a second system.
Appearances with no extra boxes and cables is also high on the radar for the WAF !
My main system in,my room I can do as I like, this application is high visibility so her who must be obeyed has given her thoughts on the matter.....
Possibly I could add a DAC and hide it as you say....food for thought.
Main listening will be from 2 sources, Tidal streaming and Amazon Prime streaming with possibly an analog source if I can wrangle it! |
@twoleftears
200w is not an imperative, but was part of the "wish list"
@david_ten
You could be right and that's how my preliminary research narrowed it down to the two main protagonists I mentioned, ml585 and ma7900.
It just may come down to which I get the best deal on for those pair.
BUT I also know I do not know every option out there and always welcome valuable input especially from actual owners or prior owners. |
Just been looking over Hegel h300 and 360, both of which seem to have had good reviews and both have decent onboard dac, no phono but that was bottom of my wish list anyway.
Anybody here had actual experience of either of these? |
@jjue
As far as prices on Hegel I had come to same conclusion and was part of reason for asking if anybody had any real life experience of them.
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Decided to save some dollars and have purchased a Hegel H300 for the princely sum of $2000 right here on agon.
If i get 90% of the ml585 for 25% cost I am happy considering its role.
It already has the WAF from showing her the pix so that is half the battle.
Will report back on actual sq once it is here.
Thank you for all your suggestions! |
Some great suggestions but I already pulled the trigger on a Hegel H300 from the classifieds here on Agon.
The better half had made it clear that a turntable was NOT making an appearance in this system so phono input became irrelevant. |
The Hegel arrived this morning and I wasted no time getting it set up and into play.
Not sure if not been used much previously because the sq has improved by the hour( been on about 9 hours now).
It compares very favourably with my Exogal/BAT combo in most areas except possibly imaging is not quite as well defined and the soundstage not as expansive.
Plenty of horsepower and bottom end is tight and nicely defined, not a case of one note bass.
The onboard DAC appears to be of fairly high quality, Tidal streamed through sounds very respectable.
All in all I am very happy with my last 2017 present to myself |
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I do not believe the beast I am looking for has truly been made yet so maybe a compromise is in order.
Something along the lines of an integrated with tube pre section and a separate DAC although that puts me back to where I was a couple years ago.
Oh what fun this hobby is.
Maybe a BAT VK3000SE along with a Mytek Brooklyn or Benchmark DAC. |
Going to try to resurrect this rather than start a new thread entirely.
Suggestions for a tube integrated that could handle my needs as I have never tried tubes and have an opportunity to set up in a new hopefully acoustically better room.
So my requirements would be analog inputs both balanced and single ended , an onboard DAC that can handle 2 spdif and 2 toslink inputs, preferably a headphone amp and most definitely analog outputs to drive subs. Power does not have to be huge as I am running very efficient Triangle Altea ESW speakers.
Long laundry list I know but no point in trying if I cannot achieve all features I desire.
Thank you!
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David,
Yes I realise the Lyngdorf 2170 is going to be a hard act to follow after the flexibility I have gained from it.
After all this is what I am doing with it right now and what ANY prospective amp will have to match.
GoldNote ph10 phono into xlr input
Nakamichi 582 tape into rca input
Pioneer dv79 into rca input
Bluesound Vault into spdif
Samsung TV into toslink
Samsung bluray into toslink
Analog out set to run a pair of subs
Digital out set to headphone running into an el cheapo digital to rca analog converter box to feed Schiit Magni 2 headphone amp. ( this actually sounds MUCH better than when I was running the analog out direct to the Magni 2 oddly enough)
A lot to ask for indeed I know.
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Actually that is not the worse idea I have heard for sure. A real pity the 2170 does not have two sets of analog outputs.
If it did just trying a tube power amp could be worthwhile.
But with just the one set I would then lose the outputs I am using for the subs right now.
And I am really trying to avoid going backwards to the separate pre/DAC and power amp route again. |
Audiotroy.
The only reason was using the digital out for headphones was it was the only way left to do it.
To drive subs and a headphone amp the prospective new amp would need to have 2 sets of analog outputs.
Agreed on ph10 phono I could use rca instead of xlr.
And yes I can run the Samsung bluray into tv via HDMI as I am doing but the sq when fed back through the tv toslink is noticeably inferior to the sq of the Samsung bluray feeding the 2170 with its own toslink.
I have had time and opportunity to try most options available...lol.
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May have to rethink the whole approach but for now still enjoying the music. |
Sitting here listening to music on my second system and I am staring at the amp, and staring.....
WTH?
It fills all my checkmark I was looking for in main system!
3 rca analog inputs( can use rca out the ph10 phono)
2 spdif.
2 toslink.
1 Usb.
2 analog outputs( fixed and variable).
Built in headphone amp.
Tube in the preamp section.
What is this beast??
Peachtree Audio Nova. ... Lol.
So why can nobody build something similar on a higher fi scale?
Even the newer nova150 and 300 are steps backwards for me as just 2 rca inputs and just 1 fixed analog output which is not sub friendly.
Doh......
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You know
Got another 2 weeks before allowed back to work.
Don't be surprised if I throw the Nova in just to see...... |
Well I am stumped on the Hegel for now on how to get headphone output.
I saw it had rca preouts so assumed to be able to connect a headphone amp to these outputs and should be good to go.
Yes it works BUT music has to be playing through the speakers as well, which sort of defeats the point of headphones!
When I hit mute on the amp it also mutes the pre outputs as well, something according to the sparse manual it is supposed to do ( yes should have read up first!).
This seems to have been the only way I can see to have got headphone output out of the Hegel but cannot now be used.
Any other Hegel integrated owners have a solution to get headphone output? |
Unfortunately this earlier model does not have a headphone jack.
Now it does also have a coax digital out but looks like that is meant for a DAC loop so not sure if that would work to take an output to a headphone amp that had coax digital input like the Aune or SOtM or similar.
And before I wasted time and money on one would like to see if anybody knows for sure |
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That review is interesting but does not really shed any light on if the dig out COULD be successful in feeding the dig in of a headphone amp |
I read that as just what it says
Making it a loop and having to bring it back into the dig in of the Hegel?
What it does not explain is if the dig out will work direct just on its own.
In other words take say my tt analog signal and just send it out to a dig in of a headphone amp and nothing coming back into the Hegel |
Sort of confirms my fear that the Hegel will only output a digital signal, if it is getting one to start with expecting you to then loop it. As op of that thread stated he could get no output over the dig out using any of the analog aux inputs.
Exactly my situation indeed.
One suggestion was to have the pre outs internally modified so as not tied to speaker volume. Sounds simple enough although not sure how the next potential purchaser would view that modification...lol.
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@chrshanl37
I do appreciate your posts, not knocking your suggestions at all so please do not think so.
Rather, your findings have made me feel it could well be a lost cause entirely without some mods |
Yes what I wanted to try and do was to output ANY signal I feed through the Hegel out into a headphone amp.
So this could be xlr from my cd, coax dig from my Vault, analog rca from tt and tape deck.
It just does not look like that is possible which is a bit of a bummer as every other aspect of this amp is near perfect.
Maybe Hegel will reply soon with some words of wisdom...... |
Picked up an Esoteric d-07 DAC and an Ayre A7XE for very fair money and will be giving that combo a try out.
Have to say will be hard to beat out the Lyngdorf in my main room but want to test this combo in there and hear what it can do.
If not a better fit than the Lyngdorf then it will have a home probably with the Scansonic speakers in the upcoming summer home so it will all be good.
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There are a number of things I have learned on this journey of integrateds.
I really do not need to spend 10k to get what I need, heck there are some super little integrateds out there for peanuts, take the Vincent sv236 for instance, can be had for 1k used!
Also if you truly do get a full all in one well then you are stuck with that house sound for every aspect, dac, phono, headphone etc. If you can live with that perfect, if not and you want to change one aspect well then you need buy that component , add it into the mix and then you defeated the whole object of that integrated...lol.
So not sure where I will end up yet, maybe I will just end buying a MA7900 or ML585 and be done with it all.
Maybe I will keep the 2170 and ph10 and schitt magni as it works well.
Maybe I will go back to all seperates again.
Interesting voyage!
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David.
Think I am coming to that conclusion.
Which is why it will be interesting to see how the esoteric DAC and Ayre ax7e fare in my setup.
With that I can still run my headphone amp from the tape out and ph10 phono in on one set of balanced inputs.
We will see |
So my Ayre AX7E arrived this morning in one piece, quite an achievement considering it was packed by a UPS store and shipped from California to Florida, a hot subject in another thread!
Connected it up to the Esoteric d07 DAC and my analog sources, cassette, cdp and phono.
Have to say with the Triangle Altea ESW speakers it is just to bright.
Changed out the speakers to my Scansonic MB2.5 and I would say the balance is just right.
Now is it better than the Lyngdorf 2170?
Hard call that will need time to evaulate but unfortunately this week I am back to work after my enforced "vacation" and in Dallas, Texas all week, just where I wanted to start again! |
Sure these are infamous last words but... I am done for now.
Time to just sit back and enjoy the music.
Current system as it stands right now.
Ayre AX7E integrated
Mytek Brooklyn dac
Nottingham Analog tt
Goldnote PH10 phono
Pioneer SACD player
Nakamichi cassette player
Bluesound Vault 2
Schiit Vali headphone amp
Audeze el-8 open back headphones.
Triangle Altea ESW speakers
All Nordost ic and sc.
Homemade pc
Equicore 1800 power.
Last couple of years has seen a lot of changes and a lot not always for the better but this combo in my room to my ears is sublime. Nothing stunning about any one item but the synergy just gelled.
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Well I did end up selling the Hegel H300 as I did not want to modify it to give a full line out signal that could possibly effect its later resale value, some people are funny about stuff like that.
But I was sufficiently impressed with the sq that I replaced it with another Hegel, the H160. This has overkill for headphones...lol, it has a headphone jack AND full line outs if I desired to use a headphone amp, now why could the H300 not have had at least ONE of these options....doh.
Any way in the real world of my room I really cannot tell much difference between the H300/H160 250/150w power outputs.
So for now it is just time to play music and listen and enjoy
Now if can just find a buyer for my BAT power amp before I start looking at DAC/PRE units again......
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So as always I wonder if the grass is greener etc.
Even though pretty happy with the Hegel H160, now wondering what a fair chunk more might buy.
Contemplating Plinius Hiato and Jeff Rowland Continuum S2.
Any direct experience from anybody with either? |
@jafant
Unfortunately not in this part of Florida, lots further south but we are in backwaters here.....lol.
Also eying up the Lyngdorf 2170 as the room correction software is very interesting with my crappy room!
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Have a Lyngdorf coming on 30 day trial so will soon see what makes it tick so to speak, really wondering if the room correction can make that much difference |
Will post impressions on this thread.
My only concern although I doubt it will be a genuine issue is that the Lyngdorf is not overly powerful.
But my Wilson's are a fairly easy drive so I think it should be fine.
Should be here Friday.... |
One of the nice aspects of the Lyngdorf is that you can run the room correction software and calibrate it and then you can play with it switched off or in focus or farfield so as to get an instantaneous comparison of the effectiveness of it.
I believe that even after it has done its thing you can still tailor it to suit if you think you know better....lol |
The Lyngdorf arrived this morning so straight to work it goes!
First thing was to run the Room Correction which is so easy to do you would be foolish to bypass this step, about 20 minutes to map as many different positions in your room as you care to with the supplied mike and stand.
After that I set up the names for my inputs and sensitivity and then it was time to rumble....but there was no rumble.
Instead with Room Correction engaged and in Focus mode( seated listening position) it was just good clean solid music, strong and defined bass but no bloat or boom at all.
Turning Room Correction off revealed a sound that although not terrible was definitely vastly inferior to my ears in the bass regions which is exactly where my setup and room has always suffered.
Of course it is early days as amp only has about 3 hours run time so sq will change but so far the Room Correction is doing everything I hoped it would for me.
To be continued....... |
Well now have a few more hours on it and it is certainly making a good impression.
Not sure if it is breaking in or just I am adjusting to a " different" sound but it seems less harsh and brittle and just such tight controlled bass.
It is so good on the roomperfect that I cannot stand to listen to the amp with it switched off now.
I think it has made a huge improvement in the sq in,my very poor room which was exactly what I hoped for.
Hard to describe its "house" sound but neutral with perhaps a slight emphasis on the top end? But again still only about 15 hours of run time so plenty of time for evolution yet.
Is it the best integrated out there?
Obviously not.
But it does seem to be doing the best job of conveying music in my room to my ears so far.
And that is all that matters..... |
Very nice review of a great looking and likely sounding amp.
You trying to bankrupt me David?
Lol
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I am afraid I do not agree on what one can afford.
If one has a budget of 10k, they MIGHT be able to stretch another grand, might.
Very doubtful they could go to 16k though.
If I say I have 10k to spend then that is what it means,not 14, 15,16, 17k etc.
I do not think it at all reasonable to think someone who can spend 11k can spend 16k.
If so we would all have absolute top flight amps and drive Aston Martin's and all the Chevy Sonics would be sitting on dealers lots unsold. Or preferably just crushed.
☺☺ |
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That has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your broad sweeping generalization that someone spending 11k CAN afford to spend 16k.
Totally irrelevant imho.
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Lol, Inna.
Glad you did not take offense, I was maybe a little harsh!
No Gryphon or Vitus or similar for me no.
I am quite happy with my little Ayre ax7e for now, it does everything I need and my tt via the phono into balanced inputs has never sounded so good.
Now I do have new speakers on the way to test against the Triangles, will see how that goes. |
120v Diablo 300 for 7-8k??
I would say get in line!
Doubt that is going to happen anytime soon |
David.
Not for me, just commenting that never seen one at that price point.
I blew my amp money a long time ago, LOL. I did not spend it quick enough so someone else assisted me!
Quite happy with the Ayre ... For now! |
Have had the good fortune to test in home 4 integrateds over the past few months and all have their strengths and weakness.
Hegel H-300. Very strong powerful amp, detailed bass, great presence only let down by no headphone socket or even a way to connect a headphone amp or it may still be in my system.
Hegel H-160. As above really, maybe a tad less defined in the bass area but still strong, however I did not realise it only had 3 total analog inputs at time I purchased. The headphone output was good but not as good as a dedicated headphone amp of quality. The onboard DAC on both Hegels was very good imho and for my needs.
Still I thought bass was a little uncontrolled in my room so......
Lyngdorf 2170, read much good on the RoomPerfect room correction software and this is indeed the case for my needs.
Down on power compared to the Hegels but more than enough to drive my Wilsons combined with the room correction means the sq is gloriously well controlled, no excess bass that spoils the picture, no more swapping cables to try and "tone" the sound to my liking. This one I think I can live with for quite a while. It has a very good built in DAC, plenty of software options for settings to match input levels, rename inputs, set output functions etc.
At the same time I did acquire a Classe Sigma 2200i.
This I have been swapping in and out comparing to the Lyngdorf but I am now spoiled by the RoomPerfect as nothing sounds quite right now.
The Classe has power to spare, a very nice onboard DAC and fairly decent software to boot. But again bass in my room is a little bloated but I know that is the room which is why it looks like the Lyngdorf is the winner for now.
One thing these exercises have taught me is that todays breed of integrated is a vastly different animal from days of old and for me I just d not see me returning to seperates although they make it easier to upgrade just one aspect like the DAC etc.
For my needs today an integrated of quality is all I need and quite happy so far, until upgraditis sets in of course!
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@robelvick.
You could be correct on the vinyl, I would concur it has maybe lost a touch in the dynamics department compared to say the Hegel but vinyl only comprises maybe 20% of listening.
Mainly Tidal streaming, Bluesound Vault 2 or even cd makes up majority of my listening so mainly digital which with roomperfect is very very nice indeed.
Maybe in an acoustically better room to start with the Lyngdorf would not be so obviously better to my ears.
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@robelvick.
I only went with one option on the Lyngdorf, the analog input board to get xlr and enough analog inputs for my needs.
They did not offer a phono option correct?
I had no use for the HDMI board or the usb board so why waste dollars...lol.
What phono stage were you using?
I am using a dynavector p75 mk3 and am still happy enough with my vinyl sq for the time being.
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TBH, with the Lyngdorf running RoomPerfect if the voices were any more in the room with me they would startle me out of my seat!
I certainly do not remember the Hegels as being slouchs in this department either but everybody is going to have a different result and opinion due to personal taste, equipment, music, rooms etc.
Enjoy the music!
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A Diablo 300 is on the Agon right now, located in Singapore, a 220v version and priced where I would expect at 12.5 k not in the 7 to 8k range.
Course if it ever sells at that price in todays market is entirely another matter indeed!
Plus a decent step up transformer is required.
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@robelvick.
I am sure you will enjoy it...again, maybe this time round the vinyl will be to your liking. I think it is a little more clinical on the analog side but my phono, cart and tt are fairly warm so it did not hurt my sq too much to have them "toned" down a tad.
Let me know your thoughts once you get it and back in the system!
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