I have owned both 4B SST and 14B SST amps. I changed power cords to VH Audio, ErnieM DIY Belden 9amp, and TG Audio 688. I heard no difference between these aftermarket cords and the Bryston stock cord. I'd suggest sticking with the stock cord...perhaps using an ErnieM 9amp cord to increase the wire gauge. But, you really don't need to in my opinion. |
Install two dedicated AC lines before you spend money on a power conditioner. Both my Bryston amps had inky black backgrounds with stock cords plugged into non-dedicated outlets. You might call Bryston and see what they suggest. Their customer service is impeccable, as I sure you know. |
You say you can't hear the buzzing from your listening position. How close do you have to get to the speakers to hear the buzzing, and how high do you have to turn up the volume before you hear buzzing?
I hear buzzing from my speakers if I turn up the volume to 1 o'clock and I get within a foot of the tweeter, and this is with a dedicated line, and Hydra 4 conditioner and TG Audio 688 power cords. Most people, including the manufacturer of First Sound preamps told me this iis normal.
Sometimes the quest for complete and utter silence can get a little compulsive! |
Is it a loud buzz, or relatively quiet buzz? The buzz from my speakers is
pretty quiet...I almost have to put my ear to the tweeter to hear it.
I guess you have a digital volume control (or at least a digital reading on
your NAD), give me some perspective of the scale...what's the minimum
value and the maximum value? I can't get a feeling for -17db-0db and
+9db on a scale.
I'd try to borrow another receiver and/or amp + preamp combo, put it in
the system and see what happens. Do you have a dealer who will loan
you a demo unit?
Have you tried going straight to the wall? If so, is there a definite
increase in buzz?
Also, start with just your Bryston connected to the speakers without your
NAD or any source connected or plugged in. Does the buzz exist? If, so,
you can eliminate your receiver and source as the cause. Then, add
components one by one until the buzz returns. Then, you'll have traced
the cause of the buzz. Of course, if the buzz exists with just the Bryston
connected, you know the cause, and a call to Bryston is in order.
I don't personally believe you will solve the buzz with power cords, and
I've NEVER had a power conditioner eliminate or reduce the buzz from
my speakers. I've used Bybee Signature, Audio Stealth Magic Mini and
Digital Mini, Panamax something-or-other, Dezorel G2 and Hydra 4. My
feeling is speaker buzz is usually related to grounding issues either
helped or exacerbated by components. |
You need to unplug the NAD and physically disconnect it from the Bryston to check for the buzz. I say this because I've done this test myself, and discovered that often the buzz will exist even when a connected component is turned off. When the component was disconnected the buzzing stopped or was diminished.
If you have continued buzzing with only the Bryston connected, then again, I suggest you contact Bryston. While there may be nothing wrong with the amp, they may have an idea about a solution.
You didn't mention if you've tried going straight to the wall with the Bryston's power cord.
Grounding issues are a hassle. I've tried every method suggested here on Audiogon (do a thread search), and none of them have worked in my case. Usually, I've fixed the ground loop hum by trial and error of connecting and disconnecting interconnects, trying shielded interconnects, etc.
But, I'll admit I've never had a ground loop hum when just my amp was connected to my speakers with nothing else plugged in or connected to the amp.
Good luck!
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OK, no buzz, but hiss with only the Bryston connected is normal. Did the hiss go away when the amp is connected to the Monster? If not, it would seem the Monster doesn't provide much conditioning, but perhaps some surge protection, which might be important to you. Otherwise, what's the point of the Monster other than a glorified outlet strip?
The buzz comes in when you add the receiver. Connect the receiver but leave it unplugged. Any buzz? How about when you plug the receiver in, but don't turn it on? Now, turn it on. Do you see the methodology here? I'm assuming during this you have no source connected or plugged in. If you do, then you can't isolate the problem to the receiver. Take it one step and one component at a time.
Are you connecting the receiver via balanced cables? If so, try single ended cables or vice versa.
I was doing this exercise once. I had no buzz with just the amp. I got a buzz with the preamp connected and plugged in, but without a source connected. Once I connected the source and plugged it in, the buzz went away! Who know why? I don't.
If the buzz occurs when the receiver is connected with a source, I'd try borrowing a preamp and see if the buzz goes away. |
I'd have to say it's your receiver. Borrow a preamp (or buy a good used one you can re-sell) and see if the buzz goes away. You can do a thread search for excellent inexpensive preamps. This question has been asked many times.
Also, you can decide whether the Monster is worth having. There are a number of good power strips available. Surge protection is another matter...OneAC, Powervar, Brickwall...all make good surge protector/conditioners that are high quality but inexpensive. Or, you can keep the Monster. :)
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One other option. Your receiver or amp may be an ungrounded design. I'd guess it might be the receiver since I doubt Bryston would design an ungrounded amplifier. For example, I understand from John Tucker of Exemplar Audio that the Denon 2900 is an ungrounded design. Who'da thunk it?
You can try an AC cheater plug on the Bryston or the receiver to lift the ground. Try it on one then the other. It may do the trick.
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A cheater plug is an adapter plug that had three holes on one side (for an AC cord's blades and ground pin), and two prongs on the male end (thus eliminating the ground pin and "lifting the ground"). They are usually used in homes that do not have grounded outlets so modern three prong plugs can be used in older ungrounded (no third hole) wall outlets. Get one at any hardware store.
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I don't know where you live FreakyGreek, but in Los Angeles, adapter plugs are sold in all hardware stores that I'm aware of, and I've never heard of them being illegal (certainly doesn't mean they aren't, but then why are they sold?). In fact, adapter plugs are often necessary because many homes in Southern California were built without ground wires, and have wall outles without the hole for a ground pin. Without adapter plugs, many appliances with ground plugs can't be used. Of course, the other way around is to install new outlets with holes for ground pins, but still without a ground connected. |
Freakygreek, I've offered all the ideas I can think of. It's up to you to take action however you see fit. Best of luck. |
Rex, you are correct. I was not clear in that the outlet boxes I was
describing are grounded, therefore allowing the use of the wall plate
screw.
My suggestion of cheater plugs was offered as an alternative, and had
been suggested to me by other Audiogon members when I had a similar
issue with ground loop hum. Frankly, the cheater plug never helped in
my rig, but it has helped others.
I retract all my aforementioned advice regarding the use of
"cheater" plugs, and suggest those interested in grounding
issues consult a local, licensed, electrical professional for further
information.
Rex, do you have any suggestions for solving Freakygreek's buzzing
problem?
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Freaky, at the risk of being too opinionated, I'm going to say the $2700
Audiophile APS suggestion borders on ridiculous because you're talking
about a power conditioner with a price that is out of proportion to the
rest of your system, and may or may not be effective. Be CERTAIN you
can audition something like this at home in your own system before you
buy.
You said before the buzz occurs when you connect the receiver, and
goes away when you disconnect the receiver. This suggests the receiver
is the problem.
Will your local stereo shop allow you to do a home audition of another
receiver or preamp? Are you running 2 channel, or is your receiver also
providing multi-channel sound?
Here's another idea. With the system on, take a wire and touch one end
to a metal part of your receiver's chassis (or screw...bare not painted
metal...you get the idea), and touch the other end to the metal chassis
or screw of the Bryston. Does the buzz go away? Don't touch the IEC
outlets...just some exposed metal on the individual chassis. You're
testing to see if this provides a ground for an ungrounded component.
Sometimes Bryston has a ground screw somewhere on the back panel
that you can use for this. Perhaps the NAD does too.
Disclaimer: I am a hobbyist, not a professional. Consult a seasoned
professional for more complete information.
I really dislike lawsuits.
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Freaky, any wire will do...lamp cord...some old speaker wire...anything insulated where you touch it and with bare ends. The ground screw will be obvious if you look on the back of the receiver or amp. Plus, you don't need a ground screw to do the test...just any bare metal or screw that's part of or attached to the chassis.
I asked about two channel vs. multi-channel because I wanted to know whether the idea of a different preamp or receiver was the right choice. So, you're using the Bryston for amplification of front left and right channels? Did you buy the Bryston from a dealer? If so, perhaps they can loan you a Bryston SP 1.7 multi channel processor to test. Otherwise, a different multi channel receiver. It sure seems to me the NAD is the culprit. Again, the hiss is common. |
If the buzzing goes away, connect it with a couple pieces of tape. It made the buzz go away, right? So, it means it worked!
If the buzz is still there, then you're back to the beginning. But I seriously doubt any power conditioner is going to make it go away. Try calling NAD and asking them if your model receiver is grounded or not. If it's not grounded and the Bryston is, then that might explain the buzz. It'd also explain why the wire might work, because by connecting the NAD chassis to the Bryston chasssis, you're in effect grounding the NAD to the Bryston. At least this is what I've been told by others wiser than me. |
Yes, Rex, thanks for your complete explanation. Nice job! That one is worth printing and saving in the audio file. (No pun intended). |
