Your speakers are not that easy to drive. Maybe you can make a combination with Primare poweramp and Tube pre amp.
It can give you the drive and controle and tube sound togheter with your speakers. |
Have you considered tubes? Something like a Rogue Cronus integrated or their Atlas amp. (Neither have XLR connections, which are rare on affordable tube gear.). Rogue's tube gear is easy to maintain. |
These days I only sell 3 dimensional sound.
Onkyo is the cheapest brand I know to date which can create a wide an deep stage.
The other brands I use are: Primare and Pass labs.
You can look for a used Primare A30.2 or A33.2
Most brands are 2 dimensional: Marantz, Cambridge, Denon, Yamaha, NAD, Harman Kardon are all 2 dimensional.
* You have to understand that all parts of a set need to be able to give depth. In my tests I have proven that a 2 dimensional brand always will F....up the 3 dimensional stage. For example: a 2 dimensional source will F...up Always a 3D stage.
I call 2 dimensional audio Standard Audio. Because a simple amp of 100 dollar will build the stage the same way. |
Agree with Bo on lack of depth. And my system pics are out of date regarding speaker placement, I now have them on a different wall and set out from the back wall quite a bit. My equipment list is correct, but not the layout of the room. I'll upload some new pics tonight. I did follow some rules of thumb for distances from back and side walls.
Placing the sub between the speakers would be difficult, the room isn't that large and the sub would be too close to listening position IMHO.
Haven't done room treatments yet, but sitting position is very close to back wall, so need treatment at first reflection points and back wall.
Bo1972, what other amp brands have you sold that outpace Rotel? |
I sold Rotel for over 6 years of time. It is a 2 dimensional brand, it can create maximum 1 metre of depth. Instruments and voices are on one line togheter. |
Power conditioning may likely help as well but not so much until early reflections are eliminated via at least a couple feet or so to walls. I'd do that first. Its free and easy. Then see what some power conditioning can add. |
Thanks Bigkidz. Could you be specific? I don't know much about these plug in power things. Is that filtering needed or conditioning or creating new power? Or all the aforementioned? I think I am at the point I could do something about my power to the components. Thanks for the help. |
Great answers, obviously the consensus is to first move the speakers forward. I'll just add to adjust toe-in in small increments; it will affect your soundstaging.
Even when manufacturers or dealers say "no toe-in on these speakers," every room and system is different. |
try filtering your ac, borrow form a dealer to see if that also helps. Nothing fancy, try something cheap. |
What great responses...kudos to everyone for not immediately jumping on the "buy this new amp!" bandwagon. I completely agree...you have a fantastic grouping of components, you should be very proud. Before I'd spend a penny on any electronics replacements, I'd do exactly what everyone recommends and experiment with getting those Quads out into the room, maybe 2-3 feet from all walls if possible. You really do have nice components, nice speakers (have always liked those Quads), I have high expectations that you are probably no more than some placement tweaking and/or wall treatments away from audio heaven. |
|
All the above is great advice. Start with maximizing speaker placement. Looking at your system pics, I am not surprised by the lack of soundstage depth. The sub may need more placement tweaking too. After maximizing placement, only then would I start down the path of room treatments - which you very well could still need.
Here is a good place to start: http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
Be patient and do everything in a step wise process ALWAYS listening to your preferred reference track between each move. Good luck - I know you will find the soundstage depth and width you want! |
With those speakers, in a small room like that (I have a room same size practically that I have dealt with but more densely furnished and less bare walls which helps, see my supplemental system photos), bass levels/extension is probably not a problem, so need for subs is unlikely.
A couple feet or so from walls to avoid early reflections may be all that is needed for better results. |
I'd experiment with moving speakers further out from front wall and also at least a few feet from side walls as well.
Try to get sound reflected from primary reflection points on walls based on your main listening position to travel as close to twice the distance as direct sound, in order to get timing of reflected sound correct and also avoid early reflections from being too close to the walls.
That should improve imaging.
Then experiment with positions closer to walls from there but no closer than a couple feet or so to avoid early reflections that smear soundstage and imaging.
Wall treatments might not be needed once the best location for soundstage and imaging is determined. Or if positions closer to walls is needed from there, absorbing wall panels at primary reflection points can help.
Bass levels may lower unfortunately with less proximity to walls for re-inforcement. Optimizing for bass levels and soundstage can be hard to achieve together sometimes. FUrther tweaking of location relative to walls might help, or a sub or subs can be added to add bass extension, if needed. |
Hello! I have a similar sized, small room, and I can assure you that some affordable acoustic panels would be my first concern towards improving soundstage and imaging. Without them, you will never know how good things can sound in there. The foam you mentioned is cheap, but not very attractive. I would suggest some cloth covered, 24" x 48" panels such as the ones from Acousticmac for around $40 each, or some DIY ones for much less is you have some free time. The next thing I would do would be to pull your speakers out into the room a bit more...They appear to be too close to the rear walls, and you should not need them that close seeing that you have a powered sub to enhance the bass. You might also try getting your sub out of the left corner and moving it somewhere between your speakers.
Once you try those affordable "tweaks", then consider upgrading your amp or pre-amp. The RB-1080 is a strong amp, but not well known for it's soundstage or imaging abilities. Keep an eye open for a JOB 225 amp on the used market if you can stretch your budget around 15-20%....Great amp! Enjoy! |
