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Seller is responsible to get item to you, intact. yes? or no?

Is the seller responsible for packing and shipping? or not? Should the seller insist on a safe form of shipping? (and if the seller does insist, can he make the buyer pay for air, or 2-day?) or can the buyer say ship cheap (even though the seller eats the shipping fail?) ((And DOES the buyer eat the broken equipment cost?))                  
Who should be worried about insurance... the buyer? or the seller? Since it it is lost or broken, the buyer can get his/her money back. (usually)  
My 'take' is that the person AT RISK for loss is the SELLER. And the SELLER should certainly be needing the insurance. (Notice the seller is the person who has to collect insurance, NOT the buyer)... So IMO the Seller should be including the cost of insurance IN THE ASKING PRICE. Since the seller is the one 'needing' the insurance.                   
The other side is why should the buyer PAY for insurance when the seller is the one being protected by insurance?            
I have asked this before long ago, and the main answer seems to be FURY on the part of (mainly) sellers claiming they have no part in any shipping fail, that they say it is 100% on the buyer. (to which I just laugh)Where I would say the shipping packing, and burden of surety is 100% on the seller/person shipping.So what's your thoughts on it today...(like I said, I asked this years ago, and got a LOT of flack for even claiming the seller is the bad guy, and is responsible 100% of the time for the insurance and proper packing and insurance against loss.) So I thought it was a pertinent question. and wonder what all you folks think, today?

elizabeth

Showing 7 responses by elizabeth

elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
So far, all the seller is responsible. Amazing change from this same sort of question fifteen years ago! If I had the time I would find it so you could see the opposite attitude back them, when the money changed hand without recourse way more often. PayPal has changed the game.(And I think rightly so, even back then I argued it was the seller's responsibility and onus, and got numerous attacks for even saying it out loud. Today, as mentioned, some folks want cash only, no PayPal, probably for this very reason. They want no responsibility for shipping problems. And if you go back and read early PayPal problems, (aside from fraud) most were about the seller angry for 'getting cheated;' because the item was damaged in shipping and PayPal sided with the buyer, thus the account blocked..
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
My worst CD player shipping story was for one of my favorite (typical $40) eBay five disc changer.                                  
The five disc player was wrapped in Christmas wrapping paper. (no box, nothing else, just paper.) Lots of extra tape though. Apparently the unit was returned to the seller by USPS, most likely the paper ripped off.    Oh, yeah the rear feet were also ripped loose, but taped back in place.  Plus the drawer was shattered (it did open, but then the bottom would fall away...) After a short excuse filled email from the seller,(he said he was away, his 'no longer working for him' employee did it, The unit was tested fully etc) he said ship it back for a refund. naturally this would exclude the $35 shipping he 'after the fact' charged me instead of the listed $22..
I never sent it back. I can use some of the parts since I own several of the similar model. Others same thing sent in bulletproof boxes, lots of protection. I will never forget the paper only one though. eBay, who would ever think??? (SARCASM, for those with no sarcasm gene)
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
I think anyone reading any audio forums has realized shippers never want to pay, and they always blame the packaging.
I tell folks pack it so you can comfortably drop the package on a corner from ten feet up. And no problem.
As mentioned it is the cushioning inside the box that matters. The more weight, the denser and thicker the foam needed.
But IMO the drop from ten feet is to be EXPECTED.
My favorite horror story UPS style: I was at the main depot terminal UPS off Bluemound Rd near the Milwaukee County border with Waukesha County(not some store) and as I waited in line, A UPS employee pushed open a swinging door with a skid on wheels, carrying a very large box. The box was WIDER than the door.. However the employee refused to accept it would not fit. And began to pull back, and try to bang the box HARD ... into submission, over and over, As I and half a dozen customers watched. finally after about ten tries to force the box through the too small opening. The owner of the item walked in and started yelling. (by then my need to stay was no more,and I left. Not knowing what finally happened. I do think if the box had been rotated 90 degrees... it would have fit through the door. UPS....ups..
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
Tweak1 that i a GREAT way to handle shipping!
Another personal story this time about UPS and ’Signature’. I bought a used Kimber KCAG pair of IC, I paid about $300. Sent and UPS claimed signed for.I was at a loss. I did not get it. Well, it turned up as I asked my neighbors.. The person directly above me, just happened to walk out into the lobby when the UPS guy was buzzing. He handed her the package and asked her to sign, She did, nothing you could read mind you. She took it upstairs, opened it, and THREW THE BOX AWAY. tossed the now crumpled and twisted up IC into a drawer in the kitchen. As far as she was concerned, end of story. When I asked, She was yeah I have that thing. And handed me the IC. I ask where is the box? Tossed. I read UPS the riot act. They didn’t care, nor did the UPS driver. What the idiot thought who lived above me? no idea.
At least she did not throw away the silvery gizmo she had no use for.
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
I my used audio searches I have found and sold a lot of gear to the biggest nearby city, Chicago. The three hour round trip is no problem.I do not remember where my Kuzma was when I purchased it, but the owner drove to deliver it for $20. ((I remember the silicon dampening trough was full!, IT sounded dull and well, dull. Took 80% of the juice out and it became great. I always wonder if the only reason it was sold was the improperly filled dampening trough. IT actually sounded bad as it was when delivered.))      
Anyway i agree being able to go pick up an item is wonderful. Dropping off not so much. Now I insist on pre pay for a drop off. Driving 100 miles only to discover the buyer /changed their mind, or want a hundred bucks off the agreed upon price has spoiled dropping off for me to a degree. (I told the reluctant buyer sorry I have other plans and thought bad thoughts on the way home. Lucky I LOVE to drive anyway, so on that part no big deal.
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
Now this sort of argument was far more common in the past. In fact I would say 15 years ago ALL sellers lined up saying the onus in the buyer. But now, with the influence of PayPal, nearly everyone agree the seller is holding the bag until a good delivery to the buyer. Some holdouts for the old ideas have shown up to state their opinion.For folks making the claim they put it on the buyer. I do suggest making sure you HAVE THAT IN WRITING, and state it in your ads. I am sure plenty of folks will walk right on by....
elizabeth OP
6,726 posts
 
minori... You know you CAN edit your post for up to 30 minutes. The little * under your moniker click on it, see edit, delete. You can do either one for 30 minutes.Your apologetic for wrong word is only one minute after you posted. so you could have just edited it.I just edited this post. LOL
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