Soundstage - Too much?

Yes you are right. The further the speaker is from the wall the further it will image but it is the wall that creates that image. As you move that speaker in the soundstage widens in direct relationship of the distance betwen the wall and speaker. Room treatment just makes the sound wave react in a way that "tricks" the sound in working as if it was in a bigger or better room. If the speaker is two feet from the wall the image will be two feet beyond the wall. If the speaker is five feet from the wall then the image will be five feet beyond the wall. This is of course broken down to simple terms and there are numorous factors to also consider for overall soundstaging.

no, perfect image, i beg to differ - speakers would image *best*, if there's *no* sidewall - i.e.: if they were outside.

in my current set-up, my monitors are ~9' from the side-walls, & there is *no way* that i have imagining 9' beyond the outside walls! w/my ~25' wall, that would make the image ~43' wide!?! kinda rediculous, imho.

*sometimes*, on *some* recordings, i get images that make for a soundstage ~18'-20' wide. this is about the best i'm gonna get (or even want, for that matter). if i were to put my current set-up into a narrower room, extensive sound absorption would be necessary on the side walls to get similar soundstage width. very few (if any) speakers will image even outside their own cabinets, let alone outside the side walls, if placed w/in 2'-3' of an untreated side-wall.

I was trying to break things down to simple terms. You are right that there is a limit. The further from the wall the speaker gets the less defined the image gets. It will only project so far. If it wasnt the walls you wouldnt get a bigger soundstage in a bigger room with the same system. That is also why room treatment goes on the walls because it needs to be at the reflection point.

If you were to put your system in a feild it would sound completely different. I have never done this but I have always wanted to. I also think that, set up right, any speaker will image beyond the wall and I have been able to accomplish this with every pair of speakers I have owned including some real cheapies.

Of all the varibles of high end audio acoustics is one of the most important. Ask anyone with a didicated listening room what they think. Rooms, walls and ceiling, are layed out in a way to articulate sound and dissapate excess. This is all based on where the walls and ceilings are relative to where the speakers are. The reflection points.

Anyone?? when you speak of distance from wall to speaker, is it wall to tweeter,wall to the outside of speaker or wall to inside of speaker cabinet? What about front wall measurements! Wall to back of speaker or front?

perfectimage, ewe say:

"The further from the wall the speaker gets the less defined the image gets...."

this is precisely where i disagree, & think the exact opposite is true. in *my* experience, proximity to side walls, & to a lesser extent, back walls, is what ruins imaging in many speakers. the sound-absorbent wall treatments need to be at the 1st reflection points specifically to *remove* the wall.

in my listening room, the speakers are ~5' from the rear walls, ~8' apart, & ~9' from the side walls. i sit ~10' from the speakers, with ~23' behind me to the rear wall. with my 25'-wide room, there's no way *any* speaker is gonna image outside the side walls, and i wouldn't even want an image that wide - it'd be way-too-unnatural. the *depth* of the soundstage, however, often *does* sound like it extends beyond the wall behind the speakers, tho. but, this is not unrealistic.

regards, doug

ps - david, sorry i'm not more specific - my measurements here are approximations. i *do* think it's best to keep as far away as possible fro the side-walls, tho, &/or use sound absorbtion at the 1st reflection point if they're anywhere near the speakers. monitors too far from the rear walls can lose lo-end reinforcement w/o subs, so there can be a soundstage-vs-bass compromise regarding how close/far to the rear wall ya wanna have the speakers...