Speaker wire is it science or psychology

Great post Redkiwi. Steve; as I remember it, the decibel is defined as a "just noticeable difference" (JND) in loudness between two sounds. And that sound pressure level (SPL) or decibels is commonly called "volume" in popular terminology. In other words it totally relies on human hearing and perception. If a sound characteristic as simple and basic as volume is based on human hearing and perception, as opposed to measurement, do you not think that there may be many more-- as yet undefined or quantified characteristis of music (as opposed to just sound). I don't know what they are. Do you? Are you holding out on us? But I come down solidly in the camp that says "there is much to be learned". And until that time comes, like so many other "audiophiles", I intend to trust my own senses. You must trust your senses when you listen to music-- no? Cheers. Craig

........yes, I know that the decibel can now be routinely be measured with simple meters, but my point is that it is based on human hearing and hearing perception. Well, this suggests to me that maybe you should trust more in your senses-- but still be a scientist. Craig

Steve and anyone else who is interested, I just posted a new thread refering to an artical I read. Please read it befor you simple test the responces of wire. The thread is "Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-sayers!"

Redkiwi: You try out a new set of cables that sound different than your old set, and you report that here. A scientist sees your post and says, well, there are two possible explanations:
1) The new cable does something to the electrical signal passing through it that affects the sound in an audible way.
2) The new cable's impact on the signal is minimal, but you have imagined such a change in sound anyway.
Both explanations are possible (and well-documented). If the first is true, then we might expect that others will notice the same effect. If the second is true, however, then your experience won't be generalizable (except to the extent that their expectations and perceptions are influenced by the same non-sonic factors that influenced yours). How does a reader know which is the case? Well, one possible clue might lie in whether there's a sound scientific explanation for why such a cable would sound that way. If you switched from 12- to 18-gauge cables and reported that this improved the treble, I'd say you were imagining things. If you said it diminished the treble, then I'd be much more likely to agree that you heard a physical change in the sound.

Now, you might reply that, well, the best way for others to find out if I'm right is to try the new cable themselves. That's true, assuming they can do so without being influenced by non-sonic factors (which include your post suggesting to them what they should expect). But none of us have time to test everything. So what should we test, of the hundreds of products mentioned on Audiogon each week? I'd suggest concentrating on the ones whose claims are the most plausible. But to do that, you need to understand something about the science that underlies the electronics. And that's why some of us waste our breath on discussions like these.

Jostler-- re: what to test. I know what I need-- say it's a pre-amp, I narrow the list by price, features, tube vs SS maybe even appearance (or other things, eg maybe some dealers I like), and Viola' I've got a "short list". This is pretty quick and easy to do-- in fact you come across as a pretty intelligent person, so I feel sure you've done it-- many times too. I wouldn't even want to test every pre-amp available as that would make it a job. About ICs, I called The Cable Co., they made some recommendations, considered what I knew and what I wanted and sent me five different ICs to audition. Maybe I was lucky, but I found ones I liked with the first batch. I certainly did hear differences among similarily priced ICs, and they were all name brands and I had no reason to prefer one over another. I just want good satisfying music. It doesn't have to be as complicated as you seem to be trying to make it. But if you're a "scientist and just want to ferret out the absolute truth of the issue, well don't let audiophiles take the fun out of it for you. Investigate all you want-- and enjoy yourself. I just want good music. Craig.