Speaker wire is it science or psychology

Stevemj, you're killing me. You decided to spend money on a dual trace scope, in an attempt to find something that you yourself have claimed "can't be measured", instead of sinking some money into a set of good, used cables? Maybe even one of those PCs that can't possibly change the sound of the system because it isn't in the signal path?

My suggestion, which isn't much different than most other's here is to leave the science to the scientists and designers, and just listen for yourself. I would guarantee that the acceptance factor for your revelations, whether they be favorable or not, would be held in much higher regard than whatever your test results prove. To your ears, it might not matter, but there are boatload of cumulative listening years in the folks that have written on this very post that would indicate that you might. Just do it!

Great post Redkiwi. Steve; as I remember it, the decibel is defined as a "just noticeable difference" (JND) in loudness between two sounds. And that sound pressure level (SPL) or decibels is commonly called "volume" in popular terminology. In other words it totally relies on human hearing and perception. If a sound characteristic as simple and basic as volume is based on human hearing and perception, as opposed to measurement, do you not think that there may be many more-- as yet undefined or quantified characteristis of music (as opposed to just sound). I don't know what they are. Do you? Are you holding out on us? But I come down solidly in the camp that says "there is much to be learned". And until that time comes, like so many other "audiophiles", I intend to trust my own senses. You must trust your senses when you listen to music-- no? Cheers. Craig

........yes, I know that the decibel can now be routinely be measured with simple meters, but my point is that it is based on human hearing and hearing perception. Well, this suggests to me that maybe you should trust more in your senses-- but still be a scientist. Craig

Steve and anyone else who is interested, I just posted a new thread refering to an artical I read. Please read it befor you simple test the responces of wire. The thread is "Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-sayers!"

Redkiwi: You try out a new set of cables that sound different than your old set, and you report that here. A scientist sees your post and says, well, there are two possible explanations:
1) The new cable does something to the electrical signal passing through it that affects the sound in an audible way.
2) The new cable's impact on the signal is minimal, but you have imagined such a change in sound anyway.
Both explanations are possible (and well-documented). If the first is true, then we might expect that others will notice the same effect. If the second is true, however, then your experience won't be generalizable (except to the extent that their expectations and perceptions are influenced by the same non-sonic factors that influenced yours). How does a reader know which is the case? Well, one possible clue might lie in whether there's a sound scientific explanation for why such a cable would sound that way. If you switched from 12- to 18-gauge cables and reported that this improved the treble, I'd say you were imagining things. If you said it diminished the treble, then I'd be much more likely to agree that you heard a physical change in the sound.

Now, you might reply that, well, the best way for others to find out if I'm right is to try the new cable themselves. That's true, assuming they can do so without being influenced by non-sonic factors (which include your post suggesting to them what they should expect). But none of us have time to test everything. So what should we test, of the hundreds of products mentioned on Audiogon each week? I'd suggest concentrating on the ones whose claims are the most plausible. But to do that, you need to understand something about the science that underlies the electronics. And that's why some of us waste our breath on discussions like these.