speakers for classical music

"until you have heard all the tube amps in the world its hard to say that they all sound the same isn't it?"

Very true, a premature induction step is a dangerous thing. . . likewise, unless you have heard all SS amps. .

I listen almost exclusively to classical. . . 15% large orchestra. . . lots of small chamber, piano, vocal soloists, occasional modern female vocalists. I second whole heartedly the recommendations for the Vienna Acoustic brand for this application. I own a pair of Mahlers myself. One thing to bear in mind is that Vienna speakers may sound slightly woolly if not driven stoutly by relatively powerful amps with high damping factors. . . but with appropriate amps they sing with a finesse, transparency and a controlled authority second to none, and their micro/macro dynamics is simply superb. I fell in love with them at RMAF 2006 after listening to dozens of regretably disappointing suites, including rooms featuring much more expensive devices.

Yes MRT, I owned a pair of MG IIA for 20 years, marvellous speakers indeed. Drove them with Aragon 4004 first, then with JRDG 7M later. Then I started to wonder why cello vibrato was barely perceptible. . . and why PPPP was so bleedin' similar to FFFF, and why FFF sounded close while PPP came from afar. . . . and the rest of course, is history. Of course for 20 years I was perfectly convinced that wishing for a deep, tight and tuneful bass was pure frippery and totally beneath me.

Musicnoise, I have driven Vienna Mahlers initially with Rowland Model 7M monoblocks. . . loads of power, but at only approx 170, damping factor appeared insufficient to control bass drivers completely. . . there was some woolly bloat on double bass. I am currently driving them with a JRDG 312 with excellent results. Treble is filigreed, mid have a complex harmonic texture, bass is deep tuneful and controlled at all times. Large orchestra is a pleasure, but my favorite are small string ensambles and vocals where the subtlety and musical involvement are sheer delight. 312+Mahlers is the pairing I heard at RMAF. I also used a set of Nuforce V9Se monos with Mahlers. . . also very good. . . even more control in bass, but to the point of becoming slightly dry in that region. . . as good stagers with Mahlers as JRDG 312 if not more. . . but perhaps not as complex harmonically and filegreed in treble. Both of these yield loads of authority to Mahlers. I suspect that Spectron Musician 3 SE may also be a very good choice, although I have not had the opportunity of listening it in my own system.

My ultimate reference for what speakers should sound like is what live performances should sound like. . . in theory. Unfortunately live performances I have attended never sound like what they should. But then, my experience is limited by the Teatro Alla Scala, the Sala Giuseppe Verdi at the Conservatorio DI Milano, The Royal Albert Hall, The Basilica Di San marco in Venice, Notre Dames in Paris, and the Tomsom Hall in Toronto. . . although I do admit that the 16th century portcature in Groznjan (Istra) near Trieste comes very close to sounding right.
So in the end. . . I just follow my ears and hope for the best.

MC402 appears to have a damping factor of 40. This may be too low for Vienna speakers. worth listening too. . . but I suspect result may be a little woolly. G.

105db on Mikas Theodorakis? Sorry to hear that. . . I originally thought that Mikas Theodorakis was simply unbearably repetitive and tediously facile. . . now I learn that he can also be painfully loud. One more reason to avoid him, I guess. G.

"I would very much like to hear Atmasphere's particular design and approach properly implemented in a matching system!"

Me too. . . already heard Atma's designs at RMAF twice. . . perhaps 3rd time lucky? G.

Shadorne, from my minor experience. . . JRDG 7M delivering max 170A peak ad damping factor of 170 is borderline for controlling bass drivers of Vienna Mahlers. At 1000, JRDG 501s and 312 seem just about right. . . Nuforce at 4000 is perhaps overdampening them. JRDG further indicated that the 301 monos with damping factor of 60 may end up a little loose on Mahlers. . . hence my concerns about MC402. . . I'll be glad to be proven wrong if someone can test the configuration in question.

Jsadurni, doing a valid a/b comparison of Avantgarde with Mahlers on the same system may be a little challanging. . . Vienna speakers like to be driven stoutly with high current / high power amps. Avantgarde need to be driven gently with nimble low power SS or tube push-pull or triod amps as they are highly sensitive. G.

Not sure how we got from speakers for classical music to being bestowed with a lecture from upon high about the inherent superiority of tube electronics. G.

"Lets all start praying."

To say it with the inimitable Zork. . . "if you pray long enough, your prayer will be answered!" . . . unless you get smitten by the Troll first that is.

In the meantime, we know that there is no one solution, between system dependencies, and audiofool dependencies. . . 'tis a jungle out there.

Not quite, High efficiency speakers may also be driven by low power SS amps to good advantage. Case in point, Avantgarde has designed and offers the Model 3 SS 30W class A/B push pull device with feedback loop, optimized for its speakers, even equipped with XLR connectors. My friend Frontier1 is currently using it and prefers it for Avantgarde Duos over every tube amp he has tried on Avantgarde Duos. I suspect that also some of the lower power SS Pass XA.5 amps may work well with the Avantgarde speakers.

Hi Dave, my only concern would be a very steep volume up/down. If a pre were to increase volume only by small fractions of a Db per step, even a muscular amp may work on some high efficiency speakers. . . actually Capri pre comes to mind, doesn't it have 0.1Db steps when turning the volume knob slowly? AN what about your Continuum 500?

G.

Selfdivider, your kind recommendation is a little. . . how should I say. . . uninformative. Why don't you tell us how these speakers excell in various aspects and subgenres of classical music reproduction. Thanks, G.

"B&W/Vienna Acoustics are consistent in that they don't play anything well."

Well Gawdbless. . . if you have the opportunity of attending the next RMAF, please do pop into the Soundings/JRDG/Sumiko large suite. There you will listen to at least one set or 2 of Vienna speakers )(likely Mahlers and 'Die Muzik') set up correctly and driven by well matched JRDG electronics. Bring your test tracks as I do. . . if in the end Vienna speakers are still not of your taste, at least you will know that you truly do not like them. As for Vienna speakers consistently never playing anything well,. . . 'tis a matter of opinions, isn't it? G.

Hi Gawdbless, tell the truth, I did hear the Mahlers with the Rel subs at RMAF as well. . . and begged for the thing to be turned off. . . it was not my cup of tea in that particular setup.. . . somewhat rambling/woolly in the bass with a slight propensity of furballing things higher in the spectrum as well. Much much better/tighter on their own. In 2006 they were being played with JRDG 201 monos, JRDG 501 monos, and with the JRDG 312 stereo. . . . loved them on 312, but not so much with other 2 amps, as they sounded much less musically involving to my particular ears. I understand that feeding the 201s and 501s with the very new PC1 PFC devices introduces some of the musicality found with the 312. . . but I'll need to verify that with my own ears. In 2008 they will be back in the large suite where Lyn was featured in 2007.

As for musical selections, vendors tend to feature what audiophiles like best. . . which are often not my favs at all at all at all. . . that's why I bring my trusty home made sampler with pieces that are important to me. . . . even if at least one of them tends to sound positively hideous in most situations, including with Vienna speakers. . . . and none of the selections pretend to be 'audiophile class' recordings. . . just music that I love!

Hope to see you in Denver! G.

And yes, for what it matters, my test selections at RMAF were classical:

1. Dvorak Symph No. 9 2nd movement with Bernstein and the Israel Phil.
J. S. Bach: Prelude from the 1st English Suite with Andras Schiff.
3. Dvorak String Quartet No. 14 played by Panocha quartet (typically used to chase roaches and other assorted varmins from infested attic -- wonderful performance but recording engineer must have been sniffing glue).
4. Edgar Meyer on double bass playing Prelude and Allemande from Cello Suite No. 5.
Beethoven a movement from a cello sonata with E. Ax and Yo Yo Ma.
5. Lara St. John on a Bach sonata with a Stradivari violin.

G.

well, yes, to some extent at least they are '[polite' selections. . . but, try to listen to Larah St. John. . . she is not a 'very polite' girl. . . word dyonisiac I should say comes to mind in the sheer emotive intensity of her playing. Yet, in most cases, I am much more interested in the low level detail than anything else.
Good suggestion about Michael Tilson Thomas on Mahler 6th . . . I'll source it before the Fall. Any suggestions for an exceptionally musical interpretation -- and hopefully well recorded -- Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring? And no. . . not that one. . . you know I don't do no Riner and no stokovsky *grins* G.

Actually, the Dvorak 9th with Bernstein is a pretty interesting recording. . . in some cases, it can soun. . . even sort of swampy. . . yet it can also highlight the capability of a component to dig into the information and bring music and venue into the reproduction. . . remember my recent observations on Ref 3 and Capri with this particular track?

Hi Dave, if there were a relatively recent -- or well remastered -- Boulez performance, that may be the ticket to the Rite Of Spring. . . just stay away from Igor Stravinsky's very own performance,or Monteaux.

Ah yes, taking a sound pressure meter along to a classical concert is so very poetic. . . it reminds me of the guy who was so enthrolled by his girlfriend's amorous enthusiasms, that he always remembered to take along a digital multimeter to measure sceintifically the peak levels of various electrochemical responses during all their overnight dates. . . . for some very odd reason, I tend to trust my ears and my emotions instead. G.

Hi Atma, now that you mention a hint of Karl Orff. . . I remember listening to Cantos General on the radio. . . quantitatively, a most impressive work.

Hi Atma, jokes aside, I'd be very interested in listening to the recording. . . to late now to use it for my current review project. . . want to finish on Friday.

Fear not Mapman, I sport several of those sillybones myself! G.