Spendor S8e! And the Spendor SP-1 but to a lesser extent.
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No disrespect. After all you are the Audio Doctors! (and I am merely a physician, haha.) Never the less, I would say that with a dipole the sound perpendicular to the panel is canceled because of opposite polarity. So less side wall pressure and less ceiling pressure. The proportion of direct sound to the listening position relative to the reflected sound is greater than it would be with a conventional speaker. Sound pressure diminishes with distance (3 dB per foot if I remember correctly.) The ceiling reflections are not even 1st reflections, but 2nd or 3rd+ reflections at best, and so are much diminished in volume on that basis. Since the OP doesn't want room treatments clogging up the decor, I prefer to stand by my assertion that panel speakers will help to minimize room acoustic problems. I've had many electrostats and many box speakers. In my experience stat panels cause fewer room acoustics
problems. On the other hand, I am like everyone else on these forums. I'm pretty sure of myself even when I am wrong. ;) |
The only thing I would add is that the rear wall directly behind the panels could be an issue, which is why panels are usually recommended to be placed way out away from the rear wall since the reflection waves would interfere. Also, toe in of panels could increase the possibility of side wall or rear corner reflections. |
I find it baffling how people will drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on equipment (and thousands on cable - which I find rediculus for multiple factual reasons I won't get into here) but limit their budget severely when it comes to accoutic treatment. Sadly, it's no different than a guy who thinks that buying a more expensive set of golf clubs is going to cut off 15 strokes from his game (hire the Flippin golf coach for crying out loud and get a much greater return on the hard - earned dollars or keep dropping thousands for miniscule improvents - then continue to whine in frustration just like the rest of the cluless maggots...) |
+1 mdbag Acoustic treatment is the first thing. Based on other writers whose names now escape me, the argument is made that the more controlled dispersion a speaker has, the less room treatment is needed to achieve comparable results. This comes at the cost of a constrained sweet spot though. Acoustic treatments make rooms much more speaker friendly, and let you select a much wider range of speakers, as well as enjoy the stereo effect somewhere besides the designated seating position. |
mdbag I find it baffling how people will drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on equipment (and thousands on cable - which I find rediculus for multiple factual reasons I won't get into here) but limit their budget severely when it comes to accoutic treatment. I also find it redicurous. Remember, only quote facts. |
All you cave dwelling men out there listen up! I am an architect and my daughter is an international designer. When you design and build multi million dollar homes and office buildings, you don’t want crap hanging from the ceiling and sticking out from the walls. I know for most of the “ deep state” in this hobby, form follows function. I agree 1000%!! However, clients who want perfect aesthetics refuse to clutter up their costly design statements. I really wanted to see if there were any breakthroughs in the acoustic field. I am so grateful for the Spatial and Larsen recommendations. |
I know for a fact that most Hollywood celebrities do not want tweaks or stuff hanging off the walls or cable lifters or other little shiny obnoxious do dads all over the place. Look at Fabio’s system sometime. His room is clean, well organized, esthetically delightful and free from all that audiophile stuff hanging off of everything. |
@recordchanger2018, I got off the acoustic treatment train a while back. It started when I bought my Quad ESL 57 panels. The previous owner used them in his design winning home that was featured in an architectural magazine, the name of which escapes me. No room treatments were used with the exception of some well placed furniture. I am not recommending that you buy a pair of ESL 57s, although I think if you like that look and it fits into your decor you could do a lot worse in selecting a speaker. You have been given some very good options as well from other posters. One thing I'd like to mention is the concept of using a "swarm" woofer system with any set of speakers you buy. I built my own version of this type of system, but it definitely helps with room nodes and I have found a lot of success with it. You can learn more here: http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html You can place these asymmetrically around the room and it works wonders to eliminate room issues. I will never go back. If you are daunted by the size of each box or if this is not going to satisfy your inner WAF, note that the boxes can be smaller in size, mine are 1.4 cu. ft (something like 8" x 10" x 8") with 8" woofers. Yes you will need a external crossover, but I found in my room those are much easier to "hide" than acoustic panels. I hope I have given you something else to think about other than the recurring man cave acoustical panel ideas. |
Guys, i’ve been an audiophile since I started dating my husband in 1963 . At first it was “ enforced” listening, finally becoming voluntary after the kids grew up. We have been through Altec Lansing,double Advents, Maggie’s , quad 57’s (re done), Bud Fried’s supermonitors, Harold Beveridge’s big white electrostatics, etc etc....HH Scott, Avery Fisher, Saul Marantz, Rek -O-Kit ,the real Harmon Kardon,tubes, stacks of audio magazines and enough vinyl and turntables to fill a radio station back in the day. I went on here specifically to find out if we could decently ( sound wise) get around visible acoustic treatments. I have been told by many personally that echo is only treatable physically and not electronically, therefore I thought I’d ask all the most dedicated hobbyists here on Audiogon. I will leave y’all now. BTW, my husband ( the original audiophile in our family) has been on Audiogon since about 2005. Vinyl rules until digital can REALLY SOUND ANALOG......you guys were so so helpful... okay, okay, I will admit I have learned a lot of things from Geofkait and Squires, it’s just that for all of us, sarcasm without the smile or wink is hard to see unless we already knew each other. Best to all!! Jan |
There are no speakers that are going to solve this problem. I have been doing this for 35 years and I’m amazed at how little people don’t understand this issue. Remember that anything above 100 hz is a problem of reflection. Anything below 100 hz is a problem of room pressure. If you have a full range speaker, you have to deal with getting the room pressure solved before you do anything else. It won’t matter what else you do. Try opening up one window about 2 inches in your car while listening to the radio at 60 miles an hour and tell me what you hear. Your ears will feel like they are going to explode. If you don’t fix the problem of pressure you are not going to get good sound. Bass ’absorbers’ do not work. Yes, I said it, they do not work. Bass traps, etc., are the biggest waste of money period. Diffusers don’t work either unless they are at least 4 inches in length and are made of some kind of solid hard wood. Plants don’t work either, they are pseudo science. This has been proven time and time again. However, wool carpets are very good. I recommend wool on the floor and even hanging on a few walls. This will help with the ’echo effect’ you are having in your room. If you can, place the speakers so that they are not parallel to any wall. If you have bookshelf speakers and don’t mind sitting on a bean bag or pillow on the floor, use Mapleshade Audio’s Bedrock speakers stands and watch the problems of your room go away. This is due to the fact that the sound will hit your ears way before any reflections and you will not experience the headache. I hope this is helpful. |
Agree with Audiotroy. No speakers or digital correction will cure bad room acoustics. In your case there is a solution and you won’t need wife acceptance because she will not notice it. 10 inches of rockwool on your ceiling supported by grid/strings and covered by sound permeable fabric. You can do it cheaply yourself. Of course thick carpeting and more sound deadening furniture would be helpful too. |
