Swapping the MMF 5 for an SL-1210M5G

FWIW, I have a KAB Technics SL1210. I added the outboard power supply after I already had the tonearm re-wire and the fluid damper, and I couldn't hear much difference. It's an upgrade I'd place at the bottom of the list.

Rather, I'd recommend putting the money toward isolation for the table.

KAB Technics product page mentions the only difference in the MG5 is better wiring in the tonearm and interconnects. I don't believe the tonearms themselves are any different.

If you have a DartZeel NHB-18NS preamp, it's phono section is factory set for MC carts: 60dB gain, 836 ohms impedance. It is optimized for carts with outputs between .03 and 1 mV. This info is from page 6 of the DartZeel manual.

Your Shure cart is a moving magnet design with 4.0 mV output and recommended impedance load of 47 kOhm impedance.

So, I'd say to start you have a substantial cartridge/phono mismatch. Try a moving coil cart with specs within your preamp's factory settings. Or, you can change the preamp's phono settings, but the manual says it requires soldering, and why bother?

Setting up the tonearm is pretty easy if you follow the instructions in the manual. Getting it close will get you most of the performance. IMO, a specialist is not required to to this.

Mounting a properly matching cartridge is the first step.

Look into a Denon or Benz Micro model mentioned in one of your other threads. Both brands offer carts that Technics SL12xx owners are using with good results.

Michael, if I'm not mistaken, you have a $23,000 preamp, $18,000 amp, and $50,000 speakers.

Why are you intent on purchasing a cartridge below $299?

Seems kind of like owning a $250,000 Ferrari and driving a few miles farther to buy Arco instead of Chevron to save $.05/gallon. (Perhaps not the best analogy...it will undoubtedly encourage debate about gasoline brands...but you get my point.)

If you want some qualified local help with your analog set-up, you might consider taking a drive to visit Brooks Berdan Ltd in Monrovia, or perhaps Gene Rubin in Oxnard. I've also heard good things about Elliot Midwood of Acoustic Image in Studio City, but I have not met or spoken with him. All these guys are analog specialists.

You will not get good advice at Guitar Center or The Turtable Lab. The salespeople don't know diddly beyond DJ set-ups.

The Denon should work very well with the Technics, and with your DartZeel.

I'm withdrawing my endorsement of the DL103R with the Technics SL12xx, because according to the resonance calculator on cartridgedb.com, the Denon 103R is not a good match for the 12 gram Technics tonearm. It's well out of the green zone for acceptable matches.

The Denon DL301 is a good match, as is the Benz Micro Ace.

06-20-08: Johnnyb53
...if you swap out the very light Technics headshell for a 12g Sumiko or LPGear, or a 15g Audio Technica Technihard, you can get the resonant frequency down to the 11's. Add the fluid damper and it flattens the resonance out, wherever it is.

The Cartridge Database resonance chart for the 103R indicates that no tonearm mass from 4gm all the way to 30gm will get the resonance to 11Hz.

I know there are people using the 103R with the Technics SL12xx tables, but if I was looking to buy only one cartridge for the Technics table, and if I wanted to be as certain as possible that I got it right the first time, then I wouldn't buy a Denon 103R. The numbers don't support it...not even close.

I do wonder, however, if the DL-103 series should be calculated at the stated compliance of 5 or figured more as 7 or 8. The Catridge Database does mention that Denon cites their compliance at 100 Hz instead of 10KHz (as, presumably, other cartridge mfrs do), which could result in a higher figure.

I do recall this mentioned by someone somewhere. Perhaps it makes a difference in the calculation.

For all this talk about the DL-103 series, you can get an AT150MLX, AT OC9 II, or Denon DL-301 MkII to easily match to an SL12x0 arm at 9-10 Hz, usually with the 12g Sumiko (or equivalent) headshell.
Johnnyb53 (Threads | Answers)

Exactly. Why twist one's brain about how to get the 103R to work when there are so many ideal matches right out of the box.

06-20-08: Undertow
Johnnyb53, Tvad

So let me ask, the M5g Headshell with headshell leads is 7.5 grams? The Denon with a 12 gram shell should suffice? Now Technics supplies the headshell with a 4 gram additional weight as well bringing the total up to 12.5 grams just a tad over this Sumiko shell.. So why not do that for free and try right?

My understanding is that the stock Technics tonearm including the stock Technics headshell has an effective mass of 12 grams (from the Cartridge Database).

With 12 grams taken as default, the Denon DL301 II is a good match out of the box without the necessity of adding an aftermarket headshell or adding the headshell weight. If you used a Sumiko or Zupreme headshell, you'd likely have to add the auxiliary tonearm weight.

The largest benefit with the Sumiko or ZuPreme headshells is their azimuth adjustment...IMO. The Technics headshell does not allow for azimuth adjustment.

06-20-08: Undertow
Tvad,
Okay got you, Well I hope its 12 grams without counting the technics extra headshell weight...

That's my understanding.

I think your cart is 6.5 grams. I use a Benz Micro Ace, which is 8.8 grams, and I don't use the headshell weight.

I once owned a Zyx R-100 Yatra, which weighed 5 grams, and I was advised to use the headshell weight for better performance.

So, your cart at 6.5 grams could definitely be used without the headshell weight (as could the Zyx Yatra), but like the Yatra it might sound better with the weight...in which case you might have to use the auxiliary tonearm balance weight.

It's really up to your ears.

06-20-08: Radioheadokplayer
I am also noticing for very quiet ballads and in between tracks some noise not hum kind of like a muffled sound and on occasion but not often some pops. Is it a fair guess that this means the vinyl needs to be cleaned?

Pops through the speakers could be either flaws or dirt in the record grooves, or it could be static on the record.

I also noticed that when I switched my preamp from phono to cd, you could hear noise at the turntable itself where the needle is. Is that normal?

Michael
Radioheadokplayer (Threads | Answers)

No. This is not normal. I've never heard what you describe on any turntables I've owned.

Does the table have a ground wire in addition to the interonnects? If so, have you attached the ground wire to a grounding post on your preamp?

I think he's referring to hearing music come off the needle. Perfectly normal.
Sinisterporpoise68 (System | Threads | Answers)

Oh. Could be.

He wrote noise, so I assumed noise, not un-amplified music.

If it's the acoustic sound of the needle playing in the groove, then yes, it's normal.

tvad, did you need to alter the tonearm height with the benz micro on the technics?
Radioheadokplayer (Threads | Answers)

I've adjusted the tonearm height many times as I've listened to find the "sweet spot". I can't recall if I adjusted it when I initially mounted the Benz. If the tonearm's parallel with the platter, then it's a good, neutral starting point.

Describe the noise you hear. Does it continue if the needle is raised off the record, but the platter continues to spin?

Can you describe the noise? I can't wrap my head around what you're hearing.

If you look closely at the side of the cartridge while it's playing, do you see any part of the cartridge body touching the record? Only the stylus is on the record, yes?

The tracking force is 1.8 grams - 2 grams. Ideally, this should be measured with a stylus force gauge rather than going by the scale on the tonearm weight, if possible. Of course, the tonearm scale will get you roughly in the correct range. Be certain you "zero" the balance of the tonearm before you set the gauge to "2". The manual clearly explains this procedure. It's easy.

I have my anti-skate set at about 1.5, and it was set using a HiFi test LP.