Sweet Vinyl Sugarcube - I Want It!!!

@kalali - There is never any "rush" on the Garden State! :-)  More like the morning "mosey".

Being extremely cheap, and a bit of a ludite, I have yet to commit to monthly streaming fees, and my cheap cell phone has limited data, so I am still all about owning the media I listen to.  And the other problem is, how do you pick a place to start streaming when there are millions of choices?  I prefer my cycle-through-the- collection method.

BTW, if you're interested, we have a great audio society hear in Joisey:

www.njaudiosociety.com

I encourage you to check it out.

Cheers.

bondsman, thanks for the explanation. With the exception of a few labels, I also didn't attempt to duplicate my LP collection by buying CDs but I'm finding myself using the streaming method more and more these days, particularly when on the move, etc. And from one New Jersian to another, I completely get your reference to the Garden State Parkway, especially during the morning rush.

Enjoy the music.

@miner42 - I hear you.  I told one of the principles of Sweetvinyl that had the SC-2 only digitized, track-split, added metadata and sent the files to my networked server, I would have gladly bought it without the de-clickifier processing.

At retail, I don't blame you for waiting.  At the Indiegogo price, it was too tempting to me to pass up.  I am fairly confident that Sweetvinyl will see this through and succeed, though.

@kalali - I enjoy spinning vinyl, and if I could, I would play the LP rather than the digitized version.  But that's not always easy to do.  I have to find the LP (harder than it sounds in my house), clean it, and flip it over in the middle.  Sometimes, I just want to play my music with the press of a button or two, or in a room other than where the big rig is.  Since I started digitizing my vinyl and cassettes (insert laughter here), I have spent much more time listening to my collection of music than pondering what I want or do not want to hear.  I started ripping my collection to a server in 2011 (finished all the CDs, now working on the vinyl).  The convenience of a music server is so conducive to focused music listening that I usually end up doing that.  My rips are not perfect, or even as good as the vinyl, but they are not too bad, either. 

As for the "shelf version" of the LP on CD, I have two issues.  One is that I swore back in 1984 that I would never give the record companies the satisfaction of selling me my entire record collection a second time.  I am that cheap.  So I went and bought a Thorens TD-166MkII in 1984, a big ticket item for me in those days, which I still have and use today (slightly modded).  I figured this West German-built 'table would last, and I was right.  The second reason is, yes, indeed, I have yet to hear a regular CD of an LP that I own sound better than the CD-R I created from the LP, even on my very modest system, and that was prior to getting the SC-2.  I find I get better dynamics, detail, warmth, soundstage and an absence of digital harshness from my digitized vinyl than almost every CD I own of the same recording (I have a few).    My DAC is pretty good, but hardly SOTA.  It is comparable in quality to my vinyl source, I think.  So, that's my attraction to digitizing vinyl.

Then there is my 45 minute to one hour commute in the car, each way.  Having music in the car keeps me sane as I fly down the Garden State Parkway at 10 to 15 miles per hour each day.  Previously, I had a 6-disc in-dash CD changer, but now use a cheap and cheerfull FiiO file player.  It takes me about 2 years to work through my entire music collection during the commute (and that doesn't count the yet-to-be digitized vinyl, of which there is a lot).  When you have a lot of music, it's good to cycle through the whole collection this way, because you rediscover stuff you've owned for a long time but haven't listened to in a while.  Plus, I hate repeating the same music too often.

The SC-2 makes digitizing vinyl easier, faster, cleaner and more accurate.  Or, at least it will once it is fully functional.

So, I hope this answers your questions.

This thread really piqued my curiosity and trying to understand the motivation for using such a device. Do you folks actually prefer the sound of a digitized LP over an off the shelf CD version or streaming of the same music, or you have a large collection of LPs that are not available as CD or can be streamed from services like Tidal, etc.? By far most of the LPs that I own are available in the Tidal catalog and for those that aren't I just listen to the LP. Digitizing vinyl never crossed my mind thus this question.

@sbrownnw - No question the entry fee is on the high side.  In Sweetvinyl's defense, I will say they have pretty much built a new product category from the ground up.  Yes, I know there are competing de-clickifier programs, but, AFAIK, none of them are as automated as the Sugarcube, in stand-alone boxes that do not require a computer, and the algorythms Sweetvinyl developed took a long time to get right.  I would suggest that for the extra $1000, the SC-2 is a better deal for those digitizing their vinyl, at least it will be once all the functionality is complete.

I got a break on the price via the Indiegogo campaign, but even so, it is still a big ticket item in the context of my modest system.  I would say it is worth it, although without a lot of the promised functionality that has yet to be implemented, it is borderline.  But once these functions are installed (firmware updates via the web), it will be an indespensible part of my rig. 

I don't know what their plans are for the future, although I believe a pro version, which might be more along the lines of your SC-.5, is planned eventually.

According to one of the main guys at Sweetvinyl, sales are good.  I think once the SC-2 is fully functional, which at the pace they are going could take another year, it will be a very hot seller.  I would also anticipate some audio reviewers to write about it once the software is fully implemented.

I continue to make excellent digitized recordings via my SC-2 into a pro-sumer CD recorder.  It's a lot of fun to take an old, beat-up, garage-sale LP, clean it, and then get a pristine rip using the SC-2.  There are some bugs in the control app for Android, and as a beta tester, I am working with Sweetvinyl to report these issues.  They have been hard at work ironing out the kinks.  Once they finish that, they will focus on the SC-2's automated track-splitting, better metadata retrieval, the ability to send digitized files to a networked server, and more control over the recording options (level, balance, resolution, etc.).

mallen123:  According to the guys who are in charge at Sweetvinyl, the next suite of features for the SC-2 will be out in late January or February.  These should include track splitting and the ability to send the digitized files over your home network to a server or NAS.  The hardware will not change.  These are all downloadable software updates.  So, if you trust them, you can buy the SC-2 now and wait for the updates.  I had mine delivered without these features, since I run the SC-2 outputs to my CD recorder.  So at least I benefit from the click processing.  But I agree with you on the key importance of the track splitting feature.  And I have said so to the folks at Sweetvinyl.  Frankly, if the SC-2 did everything planned for it, but not the click filtering, I still would have wanted one!

I have digitized a few tracks with the SC-2 onto a thumb drive at 192/24 FLAC.  As far as I can tell, they came out well, but my system only can handle 96/24 right now, and the ability to digitize at intermediate resolutions between Red Book and 192/24 is also a future upgrade at this time.  So I listen through my laptop and entry-level Grado cans. 

The album recognition feature works fairly well, but it is not perfect.  There are planned upgrades that will allow editing of meta data, and submission of corrections to Sweetvinyl in the future. 

I will post here if there any firmware or software updates to my SC-2.

malosuerte:  My time with the SC-2 has been hampered by an amplifier failure.  Whiile my amp is in the shop, I have been doing little critical listening, instead using the time to digitize more LPs, during which I monitor the process usinfg headphones (Audio Technica ATH-40X).

But here are some early impressions:  Fit & finish is excellent.  The unit runs cool, and setup (connection to wifi) is pretty easy and simple.  Sound from the headphone section of the SC-2 sounds good over my liesure cans, Grado SR-60.

Much of the functionality of the SC-2 has yet to be switched on.  I am using the Android app, and it seems to work pretty well.  But the track-splitting is not yet available.  Neither is the ability to send a digitized file to a server on the network.  For now, the only recording that can be done is to an attached USB stick.  I tried one recording, and it seems to work fine.  I used 24/192 FLAC encoding, but I am waiting for 24/96 FLAC encoding (which is promised) because of limitations elsewhere in my system.  Also, the SC-2 cannot yet play back from the attached USB stick, so playback was through a laptop using Foobar2000 and the Grados.  Without the track splitting or ability to send files to my server, I am still using my CD recorder to create CD-Rs from my vinyl.  I am routing the signal through the SC-2, so I get a nice clean needle-drop.  I hope to be able to avoid using the CD recorder once the SC-2 is fully functional.

The album recognition feature is spotty.  It has successfully identified a few pretty obscure LPs , but does not succeed often with classical LPs.  Sweetvinyl says they are aware of these issues and are working on software fixes.

Other things still being worked on are a way to manually add/edit metadata, and to submit missing metadata to Sweetvinyl's database.  More recording resolutions are planned, as are a L-R balance control for recording, and a calibration memory for multiple 'arms/cartridges.  A screen dim/off function will also be added.

All that said, the click processing works extremely well, although changing the level of processing seems to have little effect.  To my ears, there is little to no difference in the sound whether in bypass, A-D-A but no click removal, or click removal modes.  Even on the worst LPs I threw at it, about 95% of the clicks and pops were inaudible.  The downside of this is that surface noise is alot easier to hear.  Sweetvinyl says they may eventually release a surface noise processing feature, but this might not be a free upgrade because of the complexity and effort required to develope it.

I took the SC-2 to my local audio club meeting yesterday.  Only one or two of the those listening claimed to be able to hear a difference in the sound depending on the mode of the SC-2.  They felt that the sound was a bit less forward with the processing engaged, and that the highs were just slightly shelved down.  But except for them, the rest of those in attendance could not tell a difference between the processed, the A-D-A without processing, and the bypass modes.

I am holding off on a more thorough review pending the SC-2 being fully function.  But if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them here.

lewm - Oh, sorry. I misunderstood your question.  I don't expect to record on both devices simultaneously, but I want to keep the option in case I decide I need a CD-R of whatever I am recording.  Also, I do not yet know how the recording function on the Sugarcube will work when recording sources other than LPs.  For example, I have numerous singles to digitize, as well as material on DVD, BD, and some soundtrack music I have on my DVR.

Good point about the impedance issues.  I could use the Y cables instead to split the output of the SC-2 in order to feed the Marantz and my preamp's tape loop input.  Perhaps that would prevent that potential impedance mismatch, and still offer the ability to record a CD-R.  Although, would that have the potential to mess up the signal being fed to the Marantz and the preamp?  Ugh.

.      In the Advanced section on the SC-2 you can also: (top right of app - pull down menu)

a.      Change your display – show artist and song info

b.      View Album recognition

c.      Record

So, pretty much everything except track splitting, recording level control (promised) and record L-R balance adjustment (also promised).

thaluza - That could be the case.  The update took place last night, but I did not get a chance to see what it was updating.  I will keep you posted.  I opted to receive my SC-2 early (first shipment), since the hardware is finalized, and all the other stuff is dowloadable software updates.

lewm:  If I were evaluating the the digitizing quality of the SC-2 as compared to the Marantz CD recorder, you'd be correct.  But I think it's a safe bet that SC-2, which has been designed as a high-end audio component, will be an improvement over the Marantz, which is a pro-sumer CD recorder that is over 10 years old.  Also, the SC-2 digitizes up to 24/192, whereas the Marantz is Red Book only.  I also can easily digitize something on the SC-2 that I previously digitized on the Marantz, load them onto my server, and compare the results.  I may try that at some point, but I am racing against death to complete the digitization of my LPs (in the 12th year of this process, currently), so I mainly want to continnue moving forward with my as-yet undigitized LPs.  

lewm - Pretty much you have it correct. The Sugarcube only accepts analog inputs, so I use the tape loop output on the C220 to feed the equalizer. I have a choice of three headphone jacks - the C220, the Sugarcube, and the Marantz CD recorder. So far, I prefer the sound of the Sugarcube’s headphone stage over the other two.

When my amplifier is back, I will feed the tape loop input on the C220 from the Sugarcube, so listening to vinyl will be done through the C220’s tape loop.

Once the Sugarcube is fully functional for recording, including the track-splitting and meta-data functions, I will rearrange the outputs of the equalizer, via Y cables, to feed both the Marantz CD recorder and the Sugarcube, so that the Marantz will not be in the signal path of the Sugarcube inputs.

Separately, I successfully downloaded the Android app for the Sugarcube last night, connected the Sugarcube to my home wifi network, and calibrated the Sugarcube using the test record. It seems that the only function of the calibration is to set the input level on the Sugarcube for optimal recording levels. I also noticed that the Sugarcube received a software update, all on its own. I have not yet determine what was updated.

@lewm - :-)

I am curious - why are you following this thread?

atmasphere - Very interesting post. I can see how the phono pre circuitry could cause such an issue. I suppose a clear sign that this is happening is if the same passage exhibits clicks and pops at different times when played several times.

I don’t think I have an excessive tick & pop problem, as some LPs are extremely quiet through my McIntosh C220’s MM phono section (a tube/SS hybrid). But, I will try replaying passages with loud ticks to see if they repeat at the same spot or not. It’s just that I buy only used records in a wide range of conditions, so I don’t expect very quiet surfaces on many of my LP purchases.

Honestly, the Sugarcube-2 appeals to me every bit as much for the digitizing, track splitting, and meta-data retrieval features as it does for the click and pop filtering. Sadly, my beta unit will ship without those features. Sweetvinyl promises a firmware upgrade that will add these features eventually. There may even be an optional surface noise filter. We’ll see...

I have to live with the ticks and pops