Synergistic Red Fuse ...

mapman; we're waiting???

Same orientation (S to the rear) with the Bryston BDP-2 in my experience. 

What happened to mapman's last two posts?????

Ozzy:
For me the Black fuse in the QOL unit sounded best inserted with the "S" towards the rear of the unit and the printed "R" towards the front of the unit.
Not as big of a change as other locations in most ways, but important in ways difficult to describe but easy to experience.

Remember there is a breakin.Big Time.  I leave the QOL unit on 24/7. It takes a week to stabilize.

David Pritchard

Ok ok 
My fellow Agoners have convinced me to try the SR Blacks in my Ref 40 and Ref 150. Thanks for the push. Thanks 
I will order a 6.3A sloblo for the pre and a 8.0A  sloblo for the 7. (Thanks Almarg)
They are 6.3 x 32mm in size. 

I believe that's the UEF material.

Just got the Black SR's. Quite impressive. I noticed there appears to be a black dot on them. Any idea what that is?

mapman ...

I love what I do. In order to do it successfully, one needs the personality traits of a salesman. Compared to engineers ... we are totally nutz!!  And you are absolutely correct in that its hell for the wife of an engineer at times .. BUT, every person with an engineering mindset that I've done business with has provided very well for their retirement future and that of their spouses as well through meticulous planning. Salesmen? .... "Hey ... we'll cross that bridge when we get to it."  *lol*

I sincerely hope the new fuse works out for you mapman. 

geoffkait ...

Abated breath?? :-)

I'm come from the (also lucrative) creative, why not outside the box? and why does it have to be a box anyway? side of business world. So I'm really going to just be a fly on the wall and enjoy this one...

Happy Listening mapman!

Sales and engineering are two different things for sure.

"clear,understandable  and educational"

Hard to beat that combo. 

Al,
Your explanation of the fuses to Mapman was simply clear,understandable  and educational. Your value to this site can't be overestimated.
Charles,  

Oregonpapa wrote,

"mapman...You can bet that there are those of us who are waiting with baited breath for your assessment of the fuse."

With baited breath? Nice Freudian slip.

"The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell. "

Good engineers in industry learn to always be on the lookout for analysis paralysis and deal with it effectively as needed to accomplish the task at hand.

Just part of the job. Not hell at all for those who fit the mold.

My wife is the opposite. My engineering mentality for lack of a better term is likely hell for her from time to time but she knows it usually pays off when properly and reasonably applied. She knows for example in the end it pays our bills nicely :^)

"Just because" is not a reason most good engineers will easily default to though.

Heading home soon.    I'm planning to get to it later this evening.  Stay tuned.....

mapman ...

Please don't take this the wrong way --- no offense is intended. I just find personality types to be very interesting ...and understanding each personality type and the combination of personality types is crucial to my success in business.  After all, I am in the people business. 

As a person who has earned  his living as a 100% commissioned salesman for over 50 years, I've always found the personality type of the engineer, and others of that mindset, to be interesting to say the least. The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell.

Not dissing engineers here at all. Those who measure 100 times before cutting once are the folks who keep our water running clean, the electro-power plants running ... and airplanes from crashing. 

Mapman ... Just stick the new fuse into the fuse holder and enjoy the damned thing already.  *lol*

I hope you enjoy it, mapman. 

Take care ...

We are expecting a little choppy weather ahead, so we’ve turned on the Fasten Seat Belts sign.

:-)

I won’t even ask if anyone knows why the black sounds better than the red or how to decide reliably between the two. :^)  Are the blacks also rated to 500V?

Yes, good thing Al is out there. I suspected that the higher voltage rating was OK but needed to do some research to confirm. I read a few misinformed blog threads on other sites that gave me pause. Never encountered a fuse rated 500V before for anything having to do with audio. So chalk one up for Synergistic research there regardless of the outcome.

See specs and facts DO matter and usually only help.

mapman ...

You can bet that there are those of us who are waiting with baited breath for your assessment of the fuse. I had it in my REF-3 with really good results over the HiFi Tuning fuse that preceded it. Keep in mind that the SR Black fuse blows (no pun intended) what I sent you away.  :-)

Al ...

I'm REALLY glad you're here.  :-)

OP

Al, right amps and volts are two different things. Fuses protect against current/amps. Thanks for that clarification.

Countdown resumed....

Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?

Hi Mapman,

Yes, I’m saying that the 500V rating is safe. As you will realize, a fuse does not protect against voltage surges, per se. It protects against excessive current flow. And as I explained in my post earlier today, the voltage rating defines how much voltage the fuse is rated to be able to withstand when it blows. And the only time a fuse will "see" the actual line voltage, or any other significant voltage, is if and when it blows.

If the line voltage exceeds the fuse’s voltage rating, the fuse may not be able to maintain an "open" state when it blows, and current may therefore be able to flow through it. Or, conceivably, it may explode.

So as I indicated in the earlier post, the higher that rating is the better, provided that everything else is equal.  Because a higher voltage rating means more margin relative to a given line voltage, which would be in the direction of being beneficial if it makes any difference at all.

Best regards,
-- Al

Al,

Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?

Also I’m wondering if the 500V rating alone compared to most fuses rated for US standard voltage at 120 volts might alone account for some sound difference in some cases. I don’t see many other commonly used fuses rated for 500 volts when countries in fact go no more than 230 volts or so. What would be the rational for a 500V rating in this case?

Here is a list of voltage standards per country I found.  Nothing near 500 V.

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/ac_world_volt_freq_list.htm#.Vub7Ok_nQvY

None of those things are a problem, Mapman. See the post I submitted earlier today, at the bottom of the previous page.

Best regards,
-- Al

Hmm, Ok issue # 1 for me with this fuse may be a show stopper in that it appears to not match my ARC pre-amp fuse specs.

ARC sp 16 manual indicates it takes a 3A, 230V  slo blow fuse.

Syn. Red fuse is T 3.15A, 500V.

T indicates slo blow I believe (check), 3.15 A is close enough, but 500V rating means this fuse will take slightly more than twice as many amps/power to blow as it should with properly rated 230V equivalent fuse.

Unless I'm missing something I cannot put this into my ARC sp16 without risking damage.

Oh by the way- for those of you really want to take the fuses to the next level-
if you are using them in a barrel type connector with a spring loaded mechanism, you will notice that there is play inside the connector. Wrap the fuse in Teflon plumbers tape  to make it snug (not too snug to keep the spring from compressing). Don't cover the black dot on the black fuse.  Reinsert and behold even greater clarity and focus. This tweak works on any fuse. Try it and report back. You should like what you hear!!!  IEC's respond well too to this. Minimizing vibrations goes a long way. 

Oregonpapa,

Red quantum fuse just arrived. Nice looking fuse, nicely packaged in original box. Seems to have some weight to it compared to most fuses as I remember. Thanks!

I will take it home with me today and see what happens. Might get to try it out tonight in my Audio Research sp16 pre-amp if all goes well.

Hang on to your hats.....

holydio ... 

I haven't tried the WA chips on the SR Black fuses. I only tried them on the SR Red fuses. According to SR, the Black fuses have a coating on the exterior of the fuse and if the WA chips are used on them they will degrade the sound of the fuses. 

Ozzy, you're correct, only one is active.   From PS Audio Forum:

Be aware that although there are two fuse holders in the Direct Stream, only one fuse is active.

The second fuse was used for the analog supply in the PWD. The DS does not have this extra supply.

I had a PWDMKII and it uses 2 fuses.

knghifi, Thanks. Actually only one is used on the Direct Stream, and that is the one labled digital.

I try wa chips with black fuse 25h burn in. i thing more detail but slow in bass-frequencies.
@oregonpapa
What have you detected as degradation?

On Direct Stream Dac, rear to front.  I believe it uses 2 1A slo-blo.  It's on PS Audio forum.  

My ARC Ref250 uses a 7A Slo-Blo and been using SR RED 6.3A without any issues.  According to owners manual, each mono can draw up to 10A instantaneously so I don't recommend using a fast flow. 

I have a full loom of SR BLACKs waiting in the bullpen.   After pre is broken in when returns from VAC on SE upgrade, will replace all SR REDs in one shot.  It should be interesting.

From my experience, ARC benefits most from fuse rolling so I encourage ARC owners to experiment. 

Gpgr4blu, I’m sure Tsushima1 is correct about the physical size and voltage rating of the fuses that are required for your ARC gear, but to clarify about the voltage ratings: The 500v and 250v ratings refer to how much voltage a fuse can withstand when it blows. The voltage a fuse will "see" when it blows (i.e., the voltage that will appear between the fuse’s two contacts) will be the full line voltage. So the higher that rating is the better, everything else being equal. Under normal operating conditions the voltage appearing across fuses having these kinds of ratings will be a very miniscule fraction of a volt. And when the component is turned off the voltage appearing across the fuse will be zero.

HOWEVER, I would disagree with a couple of important things that have been said just above:

1)I would strongly recommend against substituting a fast blow fuse of somewhat higher current rating for a slow blow fuse of somewhat lower current rating. Some time ago, in connection with this thread, I looked at the detailed "melting point" specifications that are provided by the major manufacturers of garden variety fuses. That spec defines the approximate combination of current and time that will cause the fuse to blow (actually, in terms of current squared x time, which is proportional to energy). The upshot is that such a substitution stands an excellent chance of causing the fuse to blow almost immediately. Especially in the case of a mains fuse, where brief but very large "inrush currents" may occur at turn-on.

2)Earlier in the thread there were multiple anecdotal indications that the unspecified melting points of SR fuses are probably a bit lower than those of garden variety fuses having the same current rating (i.e., indications that the SRs blow a bit more readily). And it would seem expectable that in general a fault in a component that would cause a fuse to blow is more likely than not to result in a very large current increase, rather than one that is just slightly greater than the rating of the original fuse. Especially in the case of a mains fuse. So for both of those reasons I would suggest using a 6.3A slow blow in a 6A slow blow application, and an 8A slow blow in a 7A slow blow application. And likewise if an SR fast blow is substituted for a stock fast blow.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

blu....You should be looking at the 5 X 20mm Slo Blo fuses which are 250V.

Personally I would tend to err on the side of caution, with a fuse slightly under rather than over the manufacturers rating where possible.
Should you consider a value over e.g an 8 iin place of the factory 7 I would recommend a Fast Blo , 

Thinking of Synergistic blacks for my ARC Ref 150 and Ref 40 and I see that there are a number of ARC owners who have installed the Blacks in their gear notwithstanding my 2 concerns.
1-The Ref 40 uses a 6amp fuse and the Ref150 uses a 7amp fuse. The Synergistics make neither so I would presumably have to come up short but as close as possible (a 5 and 6.3, or if I'm adventurous, two 6.3s).
2-I believe both fuses are specified as 250v whereas the Synergistics are 500v.
Not an electrical engineer or even an electrician so I do not generally like ignoring manufacturer's choices unless I know that it can cause no harm (e.g. after market power cords).  

"Has anyone tried a SR Red Fuse in a Audio Research Reference 10?"

I have recently sub'd in an Black in place of the incumbent Red that had approx 60 hours on the clock in the Ref10, straight out of the box evolution across the board over the Red.

Just changed out the Reds to Blacks in my Cambridge 851C. I have roughly 72 hours on them and definitely an improvement over the Reds. Playing with direction of the fuses now and one I definitely had in the wrong direction. 

I started with a Black in my ModWright LS 36.5 and because I have two in the Cambridge I thought I'd save a few dollars and start with the Reds there. The Reds were definitely an improvement over the stock fuses but just didn't feel the change was a drastic as the Black in my ModWright. Bought all fuses from VH Audio and of course I was able to send the Reds back for the Blacks which was nice. Anyone thinking of trying the Reds first I wouldn't bother for the price difference honestly. 

Everything has improved across the board but the big thing I can say about these fuses is I find I enjoy listening to the volume down a little now which means my amp is running in Class A more which is nice as well. Too bad my Pass amp doesn't have fuses instead of the circuit breaker switch on the back they use; I suspect it's of decent quality.

I have two Blacks arriving Monday to replace the Reds in my Primaluna monos. I'm planning on moving the Reds to the plate fuses. I'm not sure that replacing the plate fuses will make any kind of difference, but I have to do something with the Reds as there doesn't seem to be much of an aftermarket for audiophile fuses, except among friends. I'll check back in later next week after I have a chance to cook the new Blacks...

all this talk abou ref-10', I'm feeling like a scrub with my Ls 17. Lol. Posted in the other SR Atmosphere cable  thread. Got the entry level black cords. Breaking in right now. About 24 hours in. Hard and unmusical. I had been using a hombres cord with belden 33803 or something like that, with furutech copper  and gold plate iec's.  The black cord use what appear to be Leviton brass male connectors, this I would think would be a downgrade, but the prof is in e broken in sound..... We shall see!

Excellent results with Bel Canto DAC 2.7. Any luck with Magnepan speakers?

The ARC REF 10 is a very expensive high level Line Stage, just go directly to the Black fuse,  no point stopping off at the Red fuse. The Red is "very good ", the Black is in comparison "superb". As Frank, David and I have written previously,  the better resolved the components /system  the greater the impact of the Black fuses. 

Sayles,
You summed up very wel the SR Black effect , a bottleneck is replaced with an open, fully breathing sound. I am happy for you very successful results. 
Charles, 

^^^

r_f_sayles ...

Nice post.  What's so astounding is how much stock fuses degrade the sound of our equipment. SR has hit on something big with these fuses. Your above post just about says it all.

On the vocals ... I listened to a recording of the Norman Luboff choir's "But Beautiful" last night with the Black fuse in the phono amp. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Record-LP-But-Beautiful-the-Norman-Luboff-choir-/262188669278?hash=item3d0ba...

This is one of my reference records. Its lushness just comes over you in waves. There is a female soloist just to the left and behind the right speaker. As improvements have been made to the system, her voice has incrementally become more and more distinct. Well, last  night she became a featured performer for the very first time. With the placement of the SR Black fuse in the phono amp, I have a brand new record collection. Just uncanny. 

rspyder ...

I've heard the REF-10 on numerous occasions. A fabulous line stage to be sure. 

I have a SR Red fuse in my REF 75 SE. soon to be replaced with a SR Black fuse. 

What I thought to be a grain free amp was brought to a whole new level with the Red fuse. As I said in an earlier post, if you have a REF-75, you haven't heard what the amp is capable of until you change out the fuse for the SR fuse. But why stop with the Red fuse when the Black fuse would take you to a whole different level? 

I don't see why the REF-10 would be any different than the REF-75. The results should be the same if not even better. I suspect that the more revealing your equipment is in the first place, the better the results will be. And ... as you know very well, the REF-10 is REVEALING in a big way. Fantastic piece of gear. 

Take advantage of the 30 day trial period and give it a go. But please report the results here. I'll bet it'll be really, really great. 

Has anyone tried a SR Red Fuse in a Audio Research Reference 10?

Well, I now have about 208 hours of continuous current on the SR Black fuses that went into my Aesthetix preamp and phonostage and I could not be happier with the poltry investment of these fine upgrade fuses.  At this point I'm just playing music, and enjoying it immensely. The depth and contrast these babies reveal is simply shocking. They seem to make my sound much more relaxed and effortless, and yet at the same time more textural and dynamic, if that could possibly be. I have also thrown in a Coincident extreme cable upgrade in between my monitor units and the amps with added success. Combined, they have really made vocals improve their convincingly "humanness" flesh out in a performance. I just so impressed and satisfied by the results.  Having tried the stock fuses back in the gear to contrast just how much the SR Blacks have made a difference and it was embarrassing, and no contest.

How these things make the difference they do is a mystery to me. But I have to say that it does seem likely that a .75 to 1.25 inch hair thickness wire in the mains could well become a choke point to any highly resolving system.  Well, more fuses on the way... What can I say?!

So i take my hat off to Synergistic Research for their obvious engineering accomplishments in this fuzzy area of our hobby. And thank you oregonpappa for bringing this remarkable, cheap tweak to all of our attention. A thank you also goes out to Charles and David and the rest of the posters who's long time experience and reliable opinions (and ears!) helped lead the way for the rest of us. Thank you gentlemen. This is a heck of a lot of fun and with great sonic rewards. 

Happy Listening!

David ... ^^^

Nice! I wish I could have been there with you.  I  have a similar experience from time to time.

A local church has a quarterly event featuring our town's symphony orchestra playing concertos with our very best youth musicians. These kids range in age from 12 to 17. They are amazing. My friend and fellow audiophile/record collector, Robert and I, attend these events together. We always sit in the front row right between the piano and string section. Oh, those massed strings!!  And the weight of the piano!!

In several postings in this thread I've alluded to how "relaxed" the system has become due to the SR Black fuses ... much like live music. Well ... its this live orchestra experience that I'm talking about. While everything is more detailed, it is so in a very palatable, organic way. There is no longer a "cringe factor," so to speak.  

On the youth musicians ... Can you imagine a 12-year-old kid who cannot reach the petals on the piano playing Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" so well that your friend leans over to you as says: "I'm going to throw every recording I have of this work away. I've just heard the ultimate version!" Twelve years old ... and a total knock out performance.  

Life is good, David.   :-)

Geoff:

Glad to read the headphones and cable have been Cryo treated. James at Stephan Arts Audio makes a nice Sennheiser 600 - 650 headphone cable.

If you at sometime change to the Sennheiser 800 or Audeze headphones, Synergistic Research (SR) now makes a headphone cable utilizing the technology found in their fuse- such as Quantum Tunneling and the use of Graphene. I really like what this SR cable does for the headphone experience. And they come with a 30 day trial.

justtubes2:

My systems do have all Synergistic Research Black fuses and they also have the Synergistic Research Electronic Circuit Transducers (ECT's) in place. 
I do like one ECT at the end of the main power fuse location. At the other fuse locations in the SACD player (a total of six fuses), I did not find adding an ECT improved the sound. Placing the ECT's in a component  (like my SACD player) is by trial and error. The Synergistic Research "how to install instructions " give good suggestions on possible places to try. But not every location will give a benefit. You can certainly overdue it. What I hear with the ECT effect is not the same as Graphene but is helpful.

I think the combined effect on a system that has been optimized with the Black fuses and then fine tuned with the ECT's does sound extremely satisfying.

Oregon papa:

I attended a performance of the  Julliard String Quartet last night. By design it was held in a small performance room that held 125 people. Not by design  160 showed up for the event. People were allowed to sit on the floor along the side walls and even on the floor behind the players! The barrier between the performer and the players was shattered.

It very much reminded me of the effect of the Black fuses.

It was a very special listening experience!

David Pritchard

Not to detract off topic, but ect where shown on the fuses as an intended improvement.

Has anyone tried witj the reds or blacks and what sort of improvement they have.

I find the hft pretty useful but thats for use in 

I may need to take the wa chips off to see if it makes an improvement. 

Wonder the ects have graphene of similar effect when used on the sr20 or red fuse.

My turntable has no fuse. Could that be why its sounding so good these days???

Davidpritchard wrote,

"The Synergistic Research Black fuse is definitely directional. This is coming directly from Synergistic Research in a call I placed. They suggest the flow of current to go From the "S" end to the "R" end."

Of course it’s directional. That’s kind of my point. All fuses are directional. All wire is directional, at least if it’s metal. It’s just that some fuse manufacturers are late to find out, like HiFi Tuning and SR, and maybe some still haven’t found out. So, the 64 thousand dollar question is...drum roll...are they SR right? Is that the best sounding direction, with current flow from S to R?

davidpritchard also wrote,

The Stereo Times article was about the earlier Synergistic Research SR-20 fuse. I have several of those fuses and the Black fuses are much better. I did not find there to be nearly the direction difference with the SR-20 fuse. To me it was a small difference and not huge.

So, not to beat a dead horse, but SR was wrong then about claiming it wasn’t directional, no?

Davidpritchard also wrote,

"Geoff:
Actually the Synergistic Research fuse may improve the sound better than no fuse or a piece of straight wire."

Really? That’s a pretty bold statement. How so? I have no fuse, by the way, not a straight wire. No fuse, no fuse holder, nothing. Maybe two Black fuses would sound better than one, eh? ;-)

Davidpritchard also wrote,

"It’s time to get your headphones cryo treated! I had my Sennheiser 650 treated and I like what I hear."

Been there done that. I was one of the first to get into cryo big time. That was about twenty years ago. My Sennheisers were also completely naked, no grills no internal foam. Plus the WA Inductor Chips. The Stephan Arts headphone cable was also cryo’d of course.

cheerios