Yes,...saw that last year; Arnie is a great guy whose system I've stared at many times over the years! I meant to ask him why the stack of 3 G1s were necessary when that sub or a single G25 would be ample for bass and sub-bass in that room for 2-ch. Perhaps he went with the 6-pack for HT related presence. They certainly look damned impressive!!!
TAD Reference loudspeakers-How good are they?
Just wondering if the TAD Ref 1 and/or TAD Compact Ref 1 are as good as some of the show reviews suggest, although a recent review did mention a slightly "dark" presentation, albeit state of the art sound.
Does anyone know if the implementation of concentric tweeter/mid is superior to that of KEF/Thiel, or perhaps the Berylium constructed drivers and/or crossover sophistication.
I'm thinking about the TAD Compact Ref One as my "final" loudspeaker, as I have a small listening room at 14 x 16; Quite expensive at MSRP of $37K. I would appreciate any and all opinions and experience with the TAD Reference loudspeakers.
Thanks so much!
opinions
Does anyone know if the implementation of concentric tweeter/mid is superior to that of KEF/Thiel, or perhaps the Berylium constructed drivers and/or crossover sophistication.
I'm thinking about the TAD Compact Ref One as my "final" loudspeaker, as I have a small listening room at 14 x 16; Quite expensive at MSRP of $37K. I would appreciate any and all opinions and experience with the TAD Reference loudspeakers.
Thanks so much!
opinions
118 responses Add your response
As life has dictated that I am breaking in the R1s at a slower pace (only about 7-8 hours of playing time per day 5 days per week), they've crossed 300 hour as of yesterday but the differences in the speaker as it matures are making themselves very apparent; the bass has become very accurate, deep and tight, the mids and highs are liquid and rich without being overly saturated and inaccurate and the sound stage and imaging performance of this speaker and its ability to convey the scale, energy and beauty of whatever music I throw at it is extremely impressive to me. I do miss the deep bass below 21-22 Hz from my last speakers so I may have to do something about that however in terms of musical accuracy, scale and energy of the performance, the ability to pull me into the recordings, extremely accurate rendition of every note and nuance individually for each instrument and voice AND for the ensemble as a whole regardless of type of music, I would now change the title of this thread from "R1....How good are they..." to "R1....How GREAT they are...". |
Melbguy with all due respect, I have never found you to be a liar. I have read other posts which you have made that suggest a depth of audio knowledge. I'm sure that you are a well seasoned audiophile who truly finds Magico to make the best speakers available. You would not the only one with that view. But if someone who owned TAD speakers went on a Magico thread and said they were made of hitech parts for those with low tech hearing, they made his ears bleed and, in short questioned the hearing ability of all of the TAD fans on the TAD thread, you would be offended and fight back by questioning the TAD fan's hearing. It's only natural. I'm glad to see that you recognized that you could have toned down the bluntness of your comments. That's all you've got to do and we'll all get along. Sorry to sound like a scold. I'm sure all will be fine going forward. Happy New Year. |
gpgr4blu, I find your comments so ironic considering the Magico-bashing that has gone on in this thread, lol! I noticed you conveniently slid past all those comments & cherry picked all mine to paint me as a troll. Terribly sorry to offend you, but that's how my ears heard them. I suppose you think i'm a liar as well as a "troll"?
I might have toned down the bluntness of my comments on second thought, but my view on TAD speakers has not changed. And doubtless your view of Magico speakers or derogatory view of me will never change.... |
To all: Ignore Melbguy. Don’t let him get to you. He trolls speaker threads to extol his love for Magico usually by way of insulting the manufacturer and demeaning the hearing capabilities of those who prefer any speaker other than Magico. Standard behavior for most of us commenting on a thread not involving our preferred brand would be to suggest that perhaps someone in the thread should consider brand x because we either purchased them after careful comparison and deliberation or heard them at a dealer. Not Melbuy who comes on so strong that he makes any thread veer off course into an argument about how Magico is or is not the best speaker manufacturer in the world as a matter of incontrovertible fact. His first comment hear was the usual Melbguy sixth grade insult: "TAD Reference Loudspeakers", that’s an oxymoron isn’t it?" Then followed up with how all of the TADs he has heard make his ears hurt followed by how TADs are "bright and fatiguing"--"Pioneer midfi dressed up as Zegna", when he tried to listen to TADs, "my ears were bleeding", because they are just "souped up Pioneers". God forbid that you defend your preference for another brand especially after having heard Magico and not chosen them, he calls you a "fanboi". There is only one "fanboi" on this thread and that’s Magico Melbguy. Let’s look at the facts-- this self anointed speaker expert is actually insulting Andrew Jones who designed the TAD speaker in question and is known throughout the industry as one of the finest loudspeaker designers alive. He is now at Elac where he has already designed a great entry level loudspeaker that has received universal praise from virtually all critics. As for the TADs, they are, of course, is a great sounding line of speakers in their respective price ranges by a bespoke company which has tremendous talent and resources at hand. I know I’ve never heard a TAD loudspeaker that I didn’t like. And I have heard many. |
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shadorne5,434 posts01-06-2017 10:00am@melbguy1Why? Check out page one of this thread for starters. PIoneer, I mean TAD fanboi’s have done there fair share of Magico-bashing in this thread. They have to expect a bit of push back...it’s only fair ;). |
All thanks for your feedback across the entire thread, no need for apologies as we all get passionate about what we like and sometimes go overboard (guilty as charged here LOL). Magico does make some fine speakers, some much better than others (IMHO) but their heart seems to be in the right place when it comes to pushing the performance barrier all the time. The big Thiels 3.7s and in the old days the 6s and 7.x (if memory serves) were great speakers; thought about buying the higher end of the Thiel line more than once over the years. I never forget the first 2 speakers I heard that imaged in a way that truly shocked me versus the broad stroke/diffuse sound audio speaker approach of the 70s and 80s; one was a pair of mid-line Infinity's that I owned (RS4s), the other was a pair of Thiel 1.1s in an audio shop in Montgomery Ohio (suburb of Cinci). They were playing Thomas Dolby and Patrick O'Hearn's latest highly regarded albums. Surprising at the time how specific the imaging was and how the music just hung "correctly" in the air. Have a great weekend guys! |
Shadorne, we can argue about 1db till the cows come home. I suggest you stop looking at graphs and go out and listen to a properly setup pair of S5 Mk1’s. Maybe you’ll be so enamored you’ll snap up a pair? They are relative bargains on the used market now. Enjoy them in good health my friend! Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy my S5 Mk2’s ;). |
@melbguy1 I see 3db compression from the tweeter in Chart B on the measurements link I provided above. I stated that for a low build cost speaker this is not unusual - so no big deal. I was just explaining what this would sound like versus a high quality reference speaker that would not heavily compress the dynamics of the audio signal at 95 db SPL. The reference speaker would sound harsh and "make ears bleed" at loud levels whereas the heavily compressed sounding speaker will be much more congested and polite. |
@shardorne, Firstly the NRC at the time stated the S5 Mk1 speakers had the lowest THD of any speaker they ever tested. Secondly, a max 2bd deviation in linearity above 2kHz is "embarassing", "horrendous" and "extremely audible"? The S5 Mk1's driver pair matching was approx ±0.5dB, so i'm not sure what you're jumping up and down about. Also, I don't think the S7 or S5 Mk2 were designed to correct any "embarassing" test results, but were in fact the result of Magico's relentless R&D efforts which resulted in the M Project, from which the S7 was born. The S5 Mk2 has some technology from the M3, but that's another story. |
@melbguy1 I was was referring to these rather embarrassing set of measurements for a SOTA mega-buck speaker. (See horrendous deviation from linearity above 2KHz - this kind of distortion is common in low cost speakers and is usually extremely audible - this example however is the worst I have ever seen. I don’t think this engineering error is acceptable in a speaker of this calibre or claimed repute. Maybe this explains the MkII to correct the errors of the Mk I?) http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1043:nrc-measu... |
@Zephyr, i'm glad you've assembled a system which sounds musical to your ears. Tthanks for your good wishes. All the best to you in 2017! @shadorne, You must be talking about the S5 Mk1, as respected reviewer Martin Colloms had this to say about the S5 Mk2's in his review for Hifi Critic - "We also found that the S5 MkII could play almost impossibly loud with near perfect clarity and no perceptible hardening, textural crowding or dynamic compression. The most difficult and densely scored material was handled with sweet clarity and with particularly low fatigue, a strong indicator of inherently low distortion together with exceptionally uniform frequency responses". |
Zephyr, From what I have seen the S5 appears to have severe compression issues above 2KHz. So I am not surprised that the TAD (a reference speaker design) would make ones ears bleed if one was used to all that compression (congested laid back treble lacking the ability to convey true dynamics and harshness of horn instruments and percussion). In essence, a reference style loudspeaker is always more likely to sound harsh compared to more popular audiophile style speakers that can be kinder to the sound. |
melbguy1: Thanks for the response; I am very glad you are happy with your speakers and gear combination. I know a couple guys here who had the 3s and have upgraded to the S5s in the last few months and they are very happy as well. I hear they are awesome speakers from many fans of that company's speakers. To each their own,....absolutely agree. I'm sure your ears are not lying to you nor are mine here. Perhaps I just got very luckly with baseline of gear, cables, power, etc....that I have as the foundation of the system as my hearing is still exceptional and I'm also very prone to finding the least bit of ear fatigue in a speaker and given the Legacy's I owned in various models for year, I know what a fatigue-less (not a word but you get the point) is. I'm very glad that I have a combination of gear/etc...that is showing the R1s at their best and I've not heard, even in the first 190 hours, the aspects that you are pointing out. Have a great new year and enjoy your setup and those great speakers! |
@Zephyr, ah I don’t think the accompanying amps, front end or cables were at fault when i auditioned the TAD’s. I’ve auditioned them twice, the last time with D’ag Momentum mono’s & a full DCS Vivaldi stack, and the results were the same as the first audition...I left the room after a few tracks. By then my ears were bleeding. Maybe the TAD's can be made to sound good with tubes and enough room treatments, but at the end of the day they'll always be just souped up Pioneers. Conversely I haven’t found that to be the case with the Magico S series, especially the S5 Mk2’s which are just amazing paired with Vitus. I find I can listen for hours without fatigue. Despite bcgator’s histrionics, I did say "every TAD speaker i’ve heard sounds bright and fatiguing". To imply my ears are lying to me, or perhaps that i’m lying to either myself or others is ludicrous. To each their own. |
Thanks....back in my subwoofer days with 7.1 HT + 2-ch hybrid, REL was the king for 2-ch integration. Others came and went and tried to measure up but they fell short for 2-ch. Glad to hear it's still that way! My last REL was a B1 Britannia which had the best of both worlds very well ironed out (IMHO), typical hi-pass integration off amp mains for 2-ch and equally great LFE input for HT. I realize other subs in the line had this but the front-firing B1 was my favorite in terms of pleasing both sides of the house... |
Thank you for the feedback; the RELs are great subs. I know others in the US who have the CR1s and drive pair them with JL subs (112, 113, 115, Gotham); I've not heard this as I'm an old REL fan/owner but they seem to love the combination particularly with the additional audiophile-grade crossover.... |
zephyr24069, I'm driving the TAD E1s with ARC REF250SE and Hegel H30 (350Wpc into 8 ohms and
675Wpc into 4 ohms) in the summer. Preamp is VAC SigMKIIa SE preamp. E1 is 88db @4ohm so easier load than your R1. My room is fairly large so I need all the power. emailists, I'm looking into adding 2 REL G1 MK2 subs. How many and model of Velodyne subs are using with CR1? I NEVER EVER considered subs but I think this is most cost effective improvement until I upgrade to larger speakers. |
Pehaps I can add some perspective. I currently own the CR1’s and was a TAD dealer around 2010 (which was a dismal time in the economy). I would be happy to demo them in our large sound room here in Mahattan for anyone thinking of buying TAD’s. I had the speakers on various amps, tube and SS (including TAD’s own). while they were excellent, it wasn’t until I paired them with the recent BHK-300 monoblocks (hybrid - tube input/mosfet out) that I heard the speaker’s real potential (I am a dealer for the PS Audio units). I have augmented the CR1’s with Velodyne subs (in our own configuration) and super tweeter on top. While everyone is partial to their system and the flavor of sound they have chosen, I hear very few systems that emulate live small/medium scale live music as this one. While the recent NY audio show had some great rooms (Magico/solution stood out) when coming back and hearing some of the same tracks as in the show, my augmented TAD system presented an entirely other level from what I heard at the show. For background, i am a fan of Raidho, the Magicos (I have not heard their recent top models but intend to) and Soundlabs. living in Manhattan and being part of a music scene, I get to hear live acoustic instruments played unamplified in home settings or very small clubs on a weekly basis. While I’m sure that there are speakers that do more in terms of hi fi attributes, (staging, depth, disappearing, etc) to my ear the tad’s (especially augmented in the manner I have done) reproduce the sound of live music better than I almost ever hear it done. even before ore the BHK amps, I had a musician friend sing over a CRosby stills and Nash recoding (not even a great one) and it was shocking how similar her voice and the recording sounded. i have played mainstream recordings that on other systems sounded poorly (while audiophile cuts on those systems were amazing) that the TAD revealed inner details that made these recordings into "audiophile recordings" territory. I’m still in the process of refining the system (the Audioquest Niagara 7000 power conditoned which I sell) brought the system to another level. Currently I’m using incredibly cheap speaker cables and Mogami gold XLR IC’s so I know there is still a tremendous amount of information left to retrieve. (I had the Audioquest wel signature speaker cables on for a demo - wow). while speakers are a personal choice and everyone has different things they listen for, i have found the concentric driver placement with beryllium is my cup of tea. I have heard other high end concentric designs (Blade I and 2) and a new beryllium midrange speaker from another company and none seem to do what Andrew jones was able to do with the TAD. I do like what I heard on Andrew’s concentric Elacs and have gotten some friends to buy them. We're at triodePictureSound |
melbguy1: From what I learned talking to many TAD R1 owners, not unlike other speakers out there including your preferred Magicos, the R1's performance is gated or blown out by the choice of front-end, interconnects, speaker cables, amplifier, etc....I have no doubt that the Be concentric driver whose tweeter section goes up (at least they claim measurement of) to 100 kHz will show the best and worst of whatever is driving it. All I know is that with my gear and cables, on Day 1 when you (I) would expect the good and particularly 'the bad' to come out and hit you in the face, what i heard amazed me. I believe I've got a good match of electronics and cables here and I've not heard any of the "harsh, harsh at bigger SPLs,..." type of of issues some have reported. I just returned home after 5 days of holiday travels, speakers just crossed 141 hours; same deal, no harshness, no downside thus far. Very encouraging... One thing is certain from what I can see and hear with these speakers, throw sub-standard electronics and cables at the R1s and they will let you know it. Drive them with the right top-quality gear and you'll be rewarded (same as any speaker). I suspect that may explain what you heard. Kudos on the Magicos; people say they that model are great speakers. Not my cup of tea in general for the Magico line as a whole,...but that's what is great about this hobby...there are so many great choices out there! |
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