@klh007 : I'm not familiar with Gustard, so I will check them out. As you know, I have the Exogal Comet. Aqua is outside of my budget, but would be terrific. Good to hear you also like Border Patrol.
@mac48025: I almost went with the PS Audio flagship a few years ago, but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a DAC, despite the overwhelming positive coverage. Perhaps I should look into demo/used units. I haven't been following PS Audio. Are they still committed to upgrading the software and modules? It's been out for awhile...and I'm assuming they might have another flagship in the wings? I'll PM you if I have any other questions...don't want to get off of the DIs.
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@snovosel Awesome that you are trying the DIs out. What are some of the ’other [speaker] candidates’ you have ’brought in?’
The DIs are really versatile with amplification which is why you find folks driving theirs with a wide assortment of both tubed and solid state amplification.
I would start with the amplification type / level / brand etc that you prefer and are familiar it.
You haven’t said what you have been using...sharing that will be helpful for DI owners to provide more specific feedback. Sharing your room size, preferences, etc. will also help.
I personally feel that the DIs do best with some power, though others are quite happy with SET amps and have driven them to satisfaction with just a few watts per channel. I’ve driven them with both tubes and solid state gear ranging from (into 4 Ohms) 40 watts up to 500 watts (my current amp). Despite leaning and now being fully vested in solid state, my first/initial recommendation is to pair tubed components with the DIs, should that be an option.
Take advantage of the full 60 day trial, and run them as much as you can the first few weeks. |
@snovosel Thanks for the additional information. It provides a ton of context and feel for your priorities.
Spatial Audio was also under consideration when I went with the Double Impacts. The only head to head in-home comparison I made was with Volti Audio Rivals (which are terrific speakers).
Your approach is commendable and I, and I am sure others, look forward to learning about your takeaways and comparative findings.
This may sound ’different or unusual’ but I’ve been able to take the SEs out of the equation and focus on what’s upstream. It’s a statement of faith in and commitment to, and a testament to how good the SEs are. In other words, I don’t think about the SEs...I hope those reading understand what I’m trying to communicate.
The reason for sharing the above is to point out the value in being able to focus on all that is ahead of the SEs (and the DIs) and to answer your original post on amplification pairings.
Your Primaluna separates will pair well!!! However,...
....if you can borrow or loan amps from audio friends or dealers, I would experiment to get a feel for how the different amps work within your system. I think you will find that once you have a week or two on the DIs they will showcase the differences between your current setup and anything else you bring in. I also recommend running LF sections from movie soundtracks to get a feel for the bass.
I realize, from your post, that you may not be into cables...however, in my experience (thanks to @dlcockrum for assisting me in this area) I found that cabling did help demonstrably with BASS response (and in a number of other areas).
I did see your specific thread on the Pass XA-25 (I have the XA-30.8) vs the Zotl40. Given how new the XA-25 is, and the fact that both amps lean towards being more ’cognoscenti’ amps I doubt you will get much direct and especially head to head comparative feedback. Your best bet is to reach out directly via PM to Terry @teajay who has been very open and generous in his support. |
@snovosel Regarding cabling...search the Forum for a number of current and ongoing discussions (many on reasonably priced cabling), including threads that are not active.
Additionally, reach out to those using your Prima Luna and front end components for recommendations.
Many decent options at reasonable prices...but it will require some experimenting on your part to find the right pairings within your system. |
Herbie's Audio speaker isolation Gliders are in-system now. I went with 8 Giant Threaded Stud Gliders, 1 inch length, screwed in flush with the Double Impact's base. I did not use the nuts since they left a gap between the base and the isolation device.
Manh, do they make the speakers easy to move on our hardwood flooring!
I did notice a sonic difference, though I would label it as "one of more," a bit more in this case... rather than one of' an order of magnitude' difference.
I wanted to utilize the isolation platforms I've been using for years now. In addition to sonic improvements, they just happen to look really good with the Double Impacts, at least to my eyes, and provide an 'early warning' to my son : )
So, I also ordered 8 Giant Fat Gliders. Robert Herbelin didn't feel strongly about doubling up, but advised me to experiment. I used Blu-Tack between the Gliders and the isolation platform.
@klh007 had recommended I try three configurations. I skipped one : )
It's amazing what our senses are capable of....I had one speaker with the Threaded Gliders screwed in (on the floor) and the other with the Glider - Iso Platform - Threaded Gliders. My ears just wanted to listen to one speaker. It was so very clear and easy to pick up.
Again, not an order of magnitude difference. Just more. And a lot more with the doubled up solution. And more rightness / righteousness musically.
Everything has tightened up. Taut is the word I would use, along with greater fullness (body) which seem oppositional as elements. Better separation and depth into the music, more detail and clarity. More fun, more enjoyment.
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@kdude66
Kenny, looking forward to reading about your impressions!
How do they look out of the box?
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@theachean Great to hear and thanks for sharing about your Brilliance speakers.
@stfoth Great combination of gear. Looking forward to your continued reports on your system. Many lightened wallets due to this thread. |
@sbayne Keep hounding me on posting my system...it's been helping me get closer to doing so. You're a good role model...I need to get busy with the 'modeling' part. : )
BTW, if you haven't checked out Scott's system page I encourage you to take a look. He updates on a regular basis and following the progression is interesting and educational.
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Chet Baker/Bill Evans, Joni Mitchell, Jason Mraz, Dave Brubeck, Stephen Stills, Jason Isbel, Father John Misty; all just brought my room to life through the Tektons like we'd never heard before. @jbomber Sounds like happiness. : ) |
@kdude66 : Kenny, That's terrific! Happy that you are happy.
It's great that your wife is supportive and engaged with your audio passion.
I used to own the Soul Superflys with the upgrades...miss them at times.
Read your post from the Electron thread also. Looks like you are already quite happy with the DIs. Have fun tomorrow!
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@kristofa In my more 'distant' seating position, my ears are aligned with the top most tweeter in the array. In my 'closer' seating postion my ears are aligned with the top of the midrange woofer (just below the lowest tweeter in the array). I'm quite happy with both positions, though I favor the higher / distant postion.
The Double Impacts have a very broad sweet spot (read volume or space due to the three dimensions), on all three axes. |
With the spikes inserted into the speaker base, your ears (at 40 inches) will be level (approximately) with the lowest tweeter in the array. You will be fine. |
All quiet on the Double Impact front?
Listening, not Forum-ing....?
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Finally, finally have the USB feed more optimized. Running Roon via a Small Green Computer sonicTransporter AP as core/server. Feeds a Sonore microRendu with upgraded cabling, and powered by an UltraCap LPS-1. The LPS-1 and sT are powered by an HD-Plex.
Have the Schiit Yggdrasil - HeadAmp - Moon 330A combo back in rotation. I prefer this chain's slight edge in delicacy, ease, and insight into the music over the other systems. This system gives-up a bit in the lower frequencies and in weight/fullness vs the SST amp. I will cycle back to DAC/amp comparisons once I get the system dialed in more with the power side of the chain and with room treatment.
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@craigl59 I tested the GAIA IIs with the DIs and SEs. The DIs come in under the weight specs and the SEs right at the outer limit.
I also wanted to save the price differential between the two, but in either case my recommendation would be to go with the GAIA Is. |
The Gaia IIs were what I tried. I didn't get the 1 because of the doubling of price, but if you are going to go the Gaia route I think that the 1 is the best and right option for the DI as well as the heavier SE.
I did not perceive any real differences or upsides with the Gaia II vs my doubled Herbie 'sandwich' setup. |
Hi Tom. I received mine two Fridays ago. I thought I had posted that.
I've been running them continuously since and will likely post something regarding early impressions by tomorrow evening. |
@brotw Congratulations!!! That's a great pairing. Happy to hear you are loving your system with the LM and DIs in it. |
@craigl59 Star Sound is one of my top choices also, but it is tippy which is why I did not go with it (due to our young son). It is an excellent option, otherwise.
I just added a photo to my system page so you can see my Herbie ’solution’ with the DIs vs. the SE’s with the GAIA IIs (notice the compression on the GAIAs...also NOTE that the SEs are just above the weight specs for the IIs).
BTW, thanks to @sbayne for encouraging me to post details on my system...which I did today (basic info). |
@craigl59 Thank you. The platform between the two sets of gliders is a TAOC shelf, which I had as extras from an older audio rack.
Star Sound is terrific to work with and I encourage you to reach out to them to see if they can offer a more stable Spaniel-proof solution. |
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@brotw Nice to see a mention of The Bad Plus. I enjoy their body of work.
@lancelock Great to hear that you are on board with the SEs. Should be a very sweet finish. |
@buds: Great that the upgrade to the DIs is working so well for you! Congratulations.
@charles1dad : I’ve been thinking about this, but I’m not sure how to verbalize it, yet... This is a basic attempt at doing so (I’m sure someone else can do much better with the words): we talk of, and focus on the Double Impacts, but I believe much has to do with the learning, experience and wisdom of the owners, the interplay between those individuals, and the application of all of this in bringing the best out of the Tektons. It is, using your words, about "well conceived design and implementation" of all the products and so much more ahead of the Double Impacts.
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@waltersalas : Wonderful! Looking forward to your impressions. Hold on to the Daedalus...they are special.
@lancelock : Eric says that they work fine close to the front wall. Since you have absorptive room treatments, you should be set with what mofojo, mac, and kdude recommend. In my case, I found them to perform better further out...they are 43 inches off the wall, without treatment. If I could, I'd bring them out to 4 feet. At some point I will add bass traps behind the speakers, though they are working great as is, without them.
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Tom, I’ve been listening to Steve Coleman’s ’Invisible Paths: First Scattering’ (2007) a lot. As well as Tony Allen ’The Source’ (2017). Give them a listen if you haven’t already.
The Bad Plus is quite a departure from Coltrane/Hartman : ) They have a number of albums, so you’ll have to sort that out (they vary in apporach)...’Made Possible’ leans more mainstream. Or try ’Never Stop.’ @brotw may have some up to date recommendations since he recently heard them live.
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@nitrobob Sorry to hear that they did not work out for you. Charles best delivers on a universal audio truth: My takeaway is "no" audio product will please every listener. The Tekton Double Impact is no exception to this fact The truly important thing is that you gave them a serious audition and likely learned more about what’s really important to you, in terms of how you want your system to deliver on Your Goals. For me, the mid-range is (one area) where the beauty of the Double Impacts truly shines, and in my system it is clear and detailed and layered and defined and natural. Can it be better...Absolutely. @mapman brings up positioning and the room, both of which are factors but both of which I have found the DIs to be less finicky with, though they definitely help deliver more from them when fully dialed in. In addition to his point, I’d add the system ahead of the DIs as being just as important, if not more so. I’ve gone through a number of changes as I’ve worked on squeezing more out of the DIs, and I have found that they are sensitive to what’s ahead of them. All the best on your speaker quest. Do post what you choose and your impressions of them. Exciting to have something to look forward to! |
Agreed. I think one of the issues here is the very high playback levels with a very high power amplifier.
ATI is a well regarded amp. @nitrobob Did you listen at 'mere mortal' levels and what were your findings under those conditions?
Bill ( @grannyring ) is correct in pointing out the value of isolating the DIs, and in fact, any speaker. |
What is also of interest to me is @nitrobob 's comment about the Ascends having the clarity they do, according to him, at those SPLs. |
@teajay You are correct in your concern about healthy listening levels.
I had the same concern and asked as much, which is why I did not repeat it here.
On 11/22 I asked/posted this:
"@nitrobob Any concerns around protecting your and your son’s hearing?"
He has had his hearing tested yearly and passed with flying colors (per nitrobob). |
:@waltersalas I sense a betting opportunity coming on. What's the spread?
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Have the Spread Spectrum Technologies Son of Ampzilla 2 Wyred 4 Sound version amp back in rotation for a couple of days. This is a Class A/B amp with the first 10 in A. Also added Triode Wire Labs PCs into the system a few days ago.
The Tektons, along with what's ahead of them just keep delivering!
Listening to Eric Bibb's 'Migration Blues' album. Amazing! And the silly part is that the Tekton's still have 'scale' left in the game. : )
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@corelli As I mentioned way earlier, you should have moved to Kms.
If so, it's neck and neck. : ) |
@corelli I was clocking over 3K miles living in Upstate NY, but life changes and a move to steamy NOLA has limited me to around 1K mainly city bike errand runs.
In some ways, the bike hobby is as crazy as the audio hobby. I'm getting ready to order a bike I have to drive 5 hours to pick up in Houston. If I can get someone to drive my pickup there, I might just make it a two-day ride.... : ) |
@corelli One last post before the derailleur really gets off track...for this thread. : )
I've been figuring out the best bike for my son (behind me on the rack)...as well as being future proof and something that doesn't feel like the bike equivalent of a 'daddy van' and adding something different to the stable. I'm close to finalizing on a mid-tail old school style mt bike (but stretched geometry). It's a Salsa Blackborow fat bike. I'll need to tweak it so he can ride safely on the back (stoker bar, foot pegs, skirt, pad, seatbelt, etc.)....it will be interesting and fun to do. The rack is long enough that I can have panniers behind him. |
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The Bacchetta is sharp! What color frame did you go with (the one in the pic)?
Three very different missiles to get one from a to b. : ) |
James, this will be my first (fat bike). I did a last hour pivot to another Salsa model...could not resist carbon, upgraded components and a more conventional frame/bike. Full circle back to the 80's rigid mt bikes I grew up with; albeit carbon over steel. I'll be dropping the 5" floaters for Fours. And moving up from 26 to 27.5 wheels once my son is on his own bike. I need a low stand-over height when he's behind me (likely another year).
They have become wider in their focus, so it depends on your planned usage. |
Tom, the link I posted is for a bike that allows 110lbs on it's rack. So not a pair, but one DI, at a time. : )
Or two full kegs, with room for ice...for the Tekton meet. |
@brotw Much, much closer to Greg's! Both of you will be down the mountain before I'm halfway up, in that long wheelbase, 40lb clunker. |
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@brotw It can take a dropper post and front suspension. The 'faster,' 'racier' version is the Beargrease. : ) |
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Jon, he just turned four. And yes, he's something. :) Lovely story! |
Andy Bey Trio easing me into the start of the night. |
That’s great! I’ll definitely give it a listen especially since it isn’t something I would normally spin and have been exposed to, other than live. Wrapping up the evening in a similar vein to how I started, though with a 50 year gap...the classic, John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman.
Just added the Tidal album. |
Good morning, Charles. It is an amazing record. You are absolutely correct, timeless!
(the album I added was the Bychkov Nutcracker) |
@corelli: thanks for your thoughts on Decware. Like I mentioned earlier, I was very impressed with the Line Magnetic components used during a long demo of the Devore O/96s.
I've personally owned Melody and it beat BAT and ARC products I owned, especially the BAT, and at a three to four times factor less in price. I still remember the 2A3 amp very fondly.
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@charles1dad and others who may own or have owned Coincident gear...
thoughts on their Statement Linestage?
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Hello Charles, Thank you. That's quite an endorsement!
Yes, the limited functionality is a concern. They introduced a RC version with a single volume pot, briefly. There is one on offer here at Agon. But Israel feels this version detracted slightly from his goal of sound quality. Thoughts?
Backert Labs is also a strong contender, much less on the outlay, and with some additional functionality.
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Options on choices for a stand alone 2ch Preamp / linestage???
This is in service of the Double Impacts in 2ch and HT mode. Plus some additional component integration. Budget is 5.5K tops, but I very much prefer that the purchase comes to no more than 3K. My struggle with the choice has to do with functionality vs. pure 2ch sound quality performance.
I'd love to go the LTA route, especially based on Terry's and others' experiences but for now it is too limited in application, for my needs.
The Coincident Statement Linestage is a small step up functionally, and is the bare minimum I can accept. Another option with similar functionality is Mastersound.
The Backert Labs Preamp (the Rhumba 1.2) brings another step up in function, with XLR in/out and bypass.
On the upper end of my functional scale is the Wyred4Sound STP-SE. A tubed option, that offers a similar level of function, is Accustic Arts. Both, I believe, are fully balanced designs.
I realize that many posting in this thread lean towards tubes, which is great because having a tubed preamp is preferable... my chain is all solid state at present; However, I am open to a solid state preamp, as evidenced by the W4S.
I'm sure there are many other very good options. Hope you are able to help. Thanks in advance.
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@charles1dad : Thanks. Good to get a strong second opinion from you on Backert Labs. I will look into the Dan Sachs Preamp.
Any others on Preamp choices?
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@cal3713 : Why are you "scared a bit by Coincident discontinuing the remote version." ? Thanks.
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