@schw06 Great Post! Thanks for adding your detailed findings to this wonderfully educational thread. I'm happy that you have found something that works so well for you for both 2Ch and HT and is easy for your family to enjoy and use as well. That's a heck of a combo and value! What stood out to me was your comment about tonal saturation lacking with the LTA combo. I would not expect this. Do you believe this is because of application of Room Perfect and not other factors? Did you compare without Room Perfect engaged with the TDAI? Thanks.
Adding the ZOTL 10 to the mix was a huge upgrade with the MZ2-S and really had much better presence, imaging, and PRAT but still lacked the tonal saturation of the Lyngdorf.
|
@baranyi Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the listening session at Ezra's home.
Does @teajay concur with your take on the 2A3 pairing with the Ulfs? It was my understanding that he feels the LTA Triode pairing is 'perfection' for his needs and preferences.
What would your ideal pairing be for the SEs (preamp and amp)?
Thanks. |
@baranyi and @teajay Thanks for the additional information and commentary. Very helpful!
Any thoughts regarding a parallel 2A3 (paired with the SE)? I believe Triode offers one and perhaps Aric is open to building one? |
@manati I enjoyed reading your write-up on your new DIs. Thanks for sharing your system and your experience. Great remark regarding "The law of maximizing return" |
I will come to the defense of @shadorne 's post for a number of reasons most of which I sincerely believe (my opinion) are for the benefit of this thread and those who own Tekton speakers, and not the post per se.
He clearly makes the comparison of high value vs absolute performance, which is evident in the first post. I think all of us can agree on this, whether a car analogy is used or not.
It is fair of us to ask him to elaborate and for those so inclined, who expect more, to substantiate. He did. His position is a general one. Nothing wrong with that. Many active here have made similar general statements about any number of topics / components / etc. and some even based on a lack of first hand or in-depth experience (but on experience of the field). These don't get challenged simply because they have been supportive.
His post generated a natural and understandable reflex --- I have no problem with that and I do understand it and why it happens --- but I do wonder how we ultimately benefit when those following (which is far, far greater than those posting) hesitate from participating when it is clear what the natural reaction to posts that question these speakers, or issues around it, will elicit?
It's also obvious that some who were previously active here and collaborated to the greater good of this thread are conspicuously absent of late.
Our behaviour, and I include all posting here, drives the evolution of this thread.
I personally would like to learn from those who do not see or hear things the way I do. The only way I see this being possible is to be open and not as reactive as all of us have at times been, myself included.
|
Charles,
Love and respect you brother... and you know I'll be calling you for advice and guidance on any number of things audio....
BUT, I'll say, in this case, that we have different definitions and experiences of what 'open' is.
|
David my friend, what am I missing here?
That our general reaction, the number of reactions to the post, some of the tone used, the 'defensiveness' of some of the posts, some may even say the 'aggressiveness' of some of the responses.... ....don't encourage participation or openness, especially when they are contrary to or in opposition of.... ....irrespective of what he said or wanted to communicate or imply. As I mentioned in my former post, this is less about the post itself, but the consequences and impact of our choices in response to it. |
@vitop
JMO, and sorry if I have offended.
Not at all. In fact your post was both beautifully written and thoughtful. |
@charles1dad
I'm happy the relationship remains brotherly. : )
It ultimately comes down to one's interpretation. I knew I'd be in the minority, and that's ok by me.
You and others, that have more history here and a much deeper and wider exchange between members both in public on the forum, or privately through more personal means, can perhaps 'read' more into one's posts and what may or may not be implied.
We've all been on that spectrum somewhere between belief and disbelief with respect to the Double Impacts. I'm fine with someone essentially stating that they don't believe. Sometimes that disbelief manifests as questioning credibility. Happens all the time. And there will be those that never believe. I'm good with that too.
Rather than some of the responses that poured forth, I would much rather see those like Ezra or others who have high end systems come forward with their thoughts and impressions and reasons for why they moved forward with a DI or an SE or an Ulfberth. Credibility is built, usually very slowly...and I hope that those that can -- work on shedding more light to illuminate the path and make it easier to travel.
|
@mofojo Posting your question here because it’s a GREAT question and the answers and insights from others may be helpful not only to you but to those who may be considering one or the other. wondering if you can elaborate on the difference between the DI and DISE. Are there any types of music or anything you think the DIs do as well or better. Rock and metal are a descent portion of my listening. If that was compromised with a more “grown up” speaker that would be disappointing. Thanks My answer hinges on the quality of the recordings (for the rock and metal) you listen to. If the quality is "typically average" (the norm with both genres and especially so for many older recordings) then I believe the DIs are the better choice. The SEs will lay bare, to a greater degree than the DIs, the quality of the recording. For example, Tidal/Roon served up The Rolling Stones’ Saturday Club recordings the other day. Sound Quality was not good. This is my take. Others who have moved from the DIs to the SEs may have found differently. I encourage them to post their findings. I posted this video in another thread, but I think the point is very apropos regarding the question you are asking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku7tge9qppo&t=31s |
|
@danonano Thanks for sharing these reviews. They are thorough and should be very helpful to those considering the Double Impacts. |
@aricaudio Aric, Great to know that you are open to a parallel 2A3 build and other options such as the 211.
As you know, I'm working on getting the digital front end finalized. Once the SEs are in system and I have a good feel for them, a path forward will be much clearer.
I'm still leaning towards more power, i.e. going with 120s/150s...but now that @branayi and @teajay both endorse the 2A3 paired to the SE after their auditions of the SEs...I can put the 2A3 option back on the table.
I'll reach out via email, after the SEs have been in system for a week or so. |
@mac48025 Thanks. It’s good to have your current take on Aric’s amp using the KT88s and then how the 150s work for you in the future.
I’m a huge fan of the 2A3 but was worried about the SE’s efficiency and took that option off the table. It’s nice to have it back in the mix.
I started a thread for tubed amp recommendations at a higher power output level than the 2A3 and received a number of great suggestions and options to consider.
The Pass XP-20 - XA-30.8 combination within my system is sublime. I should be asking Aric if he can build a box to check my sanity. : )
|
@mikeg Both sound like good options. I'm not familiar with the Tidal amps. Do they still make them? I loved the Ayon Spirit II integrated I had ages ago.
In case this helps influence your choice, my wife is partial to Porsche. She has much better taste than me.
I'd be perfectly happy with a Golf and would be ecstatic to drive and own a GTI or R.
My daily ride is a work bike for commuting and transport and groceries etc. So my recommendation is for a Surly Big Dummy. Hope the innuendo (no disparagement intended) is appreciated. |
@rmasoni has personally recommended it on the tube amp thread I asked for input on:
"Call David Berning directly and ask him to tell you about his 300B or 6B4G push-pull amp that he builds on request. It is spectacular. His ZOTL circuitry, fully balanced, Class A. He included 47 step Goldpoint attenuator when he built mine - so it can be used as an "integrated", albeit with a single input (either RCA or XLR). Will cost you around $7K, but there is nothing like it - check out Harley's double down on the Flagship 211/845. You get the same sound in a smaller package."
|
@teajay @tektondesign
Terry, thanks for your wonderful review of the Tekton Design Ulfberths.
I'm always moved by your writing style and skills. Amazing!
Eric, Congratulations to you and your team! |
@teajay Thanks for letting us know about the Ulfberth review at Stereo Times. Another terrific review!!! |
Another update on the SEs and system related components and performance changes.
I recently swapped in the newly released Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Level 3 (Euphoria) speaker cables. They are fully broken in at this point.
For those of you that are considering tubed integrated amplifiers, the SEs when driven by the Lyric Audio Ti140 MkII and the SR SCs are a superb pairing. The Lyric is Push-Pull and is setup with stock KT150s (at this time).
@sbayne has a post in his system page that reinforces THIS (and other points)....and though it doesn't need repeating, I find it continues to surprise me ever so often...synergy and matching is critical for overall system results.
|
@lancelock Terrific news! Would love to hear more about how your isolation setup specifically added to overall performance (unless the "crushing dynamics and more bass" is the finding).
Will you also be getting the new Microzotl Preamplifier in for a comparison to the MZ2? I imagine the new Pre paired with the UltraLinear will again bump up overall sound quality and performance. |
@lancelock Thank you. If you ever get a chance (and I realize now that you have them set up, it will not be easy to do) it would be great to hear how the GAIA 1s perform straight into the base of the SEs vs into the Soundocity outriggers?
I would also expect (in your current configuration) seamless coherence / integration from the lowest bass into the lower mids, denser / greater solidity to the image(s), increased / better separation, and an enhanced yet more defined soundstage.
Regarding the Linear Tube Audio gear...it sounds like they have another set of winners in their arsenal. Looking forward to how your entire system comes together when everything is dialed in and settled.
|
|
|
@teajay I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's............... Very helpful post. Thanks for the highlighting the nuanced differences between the preamp and amp combinations with for the Double Impacts, the DI-SEs, and Ulfberths; your preferences and findings; and also the cost of tubes selected. |
@harv1021 Thanks for the update and really cool that the SEs are coming into their own.
@lancelock I get why you don’t want to redo the Gaia 1 setup (another two times in this case!). : )
Congratulations on moving ahead with the Microzotl Preamplifier. |
@mac48025 Tom, will you be keeping the KT88? Why not the 2A3? |
@mac48025 Tom, no disrespect of Aric’s amps meant by this question...but why not the Frankenstein? Or is it too close to Halloween for your comfort? |
@mac48025 Tom, thanks for your response to my question. Sounds like you are well on your way to a wonderful musical end-point. I'm surprised by the quick change of direction from the Aric's KT88 amp since I believe you are very deliberate in your choices, which is what led to my questions. |
@teajay Thanks for the update, Terry. Higher power output with SET like character and quality sounds like an ultimate winning combination! Congratulations, Aric. |
@avanti1960
For those of you that own these speakers, how is the quality of the sound in terms of cleanliness? Freedom from distortion, dirt, noise, grit, ringing, harshness, etc?
Clean. Free (though not in a perfect absolute sense) of the issues you ask about in the second question. |
|
@rubytuesday Congratulations on your NEW SYSTEM! |
|
@jcarcopo
Like @mikeg I've had a positive experience with USA Tube Audio.
I also loved my Ayon integrated and did not have any reliability issues.
I approached them a few months ago regarding a Mastersound preamp and an integrated amp. They did not talk me over to Ayon. : )
All the best with your decision.
|
@jcarcapo
I think the Ayon will also be utterly neutral, possibly flawlessly so
I doubt, if you are being literal, the above.... but I do believe you will love it's sound.... It's a heck of a nice problem to be dealing with. : ) |
@kerbouchard84 Dan, hope you are all set with your Double Impact audition with grey9hound. I believe @waltersalas is also in your 'range' though he has the SEs. Keep us posted. |
Terrific news. You are one of the few that will get to listen to the DIs and the SEs prior to making a choice. All the best! |
@333jeffery Nice on the Rockna Wavedream
Keep us posted on what you find? Are you using it's pre functionality? |
@latebloomer Source first, so to speak : ) ....Eric is good at guiding one through the options and the pros and cons.
You could also reach out to Mike Kay @audioarchon and Terry @teajay who may have more information.
It would be cool to have detail on the 1812s. If you find something out, do post. |
@waltersalas Looking forward to your "More to follow...." with the SEs. : )
@rubytuesday +2 re: "Great Story." Our journeys are as interesting and rich as the performance of our systems.
@mac48025 Congratulations on the EML XLS 300B tubes and how they have already impacted overall sound quality. |
Here's a point that holds true for me, and (I believe) it does for most who have also moved to the SEs...(and the Ulfberths)...
For those who are deciding between the Double Impacts or the SEs, I encourage you to consider or, at the very least, factor this in.
Since the SEs went in system, my entire system is different than it was with the Double Impacts.
What's New: the SEs, Amplification (Pre/Amp), DAC, Renderer, Power Supply, Cabling, etc. It is a completely different system than what I had with the Double Impacts.
The exceptions: the very front end of my computer audio chain [server / network] (early in the process of also changing) and the isolation components in my system (which I may re-evaluate).
As I read posts made by other members who have the SEs, I see a similar pattern (mostly).
Our hobby is naturally one of improvement and upgrades, but I see a number of us (myself included) moving rapidly in this area. The SEs are Most Deserving of it.
|
@bullitt5094
Consistantly over many types of music the LTA was always third, the room corrected 2170 was generally second and the uncorrected 2170 was most often first.
Thanks for posting your findings between the three amplifier choices you made. I'm curious about the above. Why do you feel the uncorrected TDAI performance came out ahead of the room corrected one? |
@bullitt5094
Also, can you provide some specific details of how (in what ways) the Lyngdorf sound / performance was superior to your LTA combination?
Thank you! |
|
@bullitt5094
On the Lyngdorf questions...
In my room, the 2170 sounds better corrected than uncorrected.
Thanks for the excellent post and additional details. It was very helpful and what I was looking for when I asked for more information. Thank you! Just to clarify, even though you found the 2170 to sound better corrected you are still running it uncorrected? Is that correct? |
This is an open question to all....
From the history in this thread I see a strong group that prefers tubed components ahead of the Double Impacts.
'Thought leaders' have driven specific choices, for example LTA, among others.
It appears that there is another group emerging that has walked away from tubes once they found the Lyngdorf (specifically, the TDAI 2170) to be an 'ideal' pairing for them -in- driving the Double Impacts. It is my guess that someone like Bill or Kenny would not have done so lightly or without a thorough evaluation (and now Bob as well; though I think Bill was driving the AZs prior to).
I'm curious as to what the reasons for this are?
Aside from the stated synergy and preferences, what else might be going on? Thoughts.....
|
@grannyring
Bill, what an incredible post. And what an amazing journey. Thanks for sharing all of it with this group and across Audiogon. AMAZING!!! |
@jayctoy Congratulations on the Tekton Impact Monitor! It will be great hearing your impressions once it is fully run in, especially so since you will be driving them with very different amps.
I wonder what an all out assault on modding the Impact Monitor might deliver? : ) |
@bullitt5094 Bob, thanks for the clarification. When I read your first major post on the Lyngdorf it read, at least to me, that you preferred the 2170 with the room correction off...which is what prompted my confusion and therefore my questions.
To my eyes, the TDAI 2170 looks very nice. I appreciate the Danish understatement and minimalism and functionality all well displayed in one box.
|
LP : ) Luckily not poker!
Liked your earlier post. Relevant questions. |
@evolvist Thanks.
@bullitt5094 Are you up for another visitor to check out and hear your setup? If you are I can coordinate around a visit to family in Houston. |
@xenophon +1 on your "piping up" as you put it! Great to have you on board with the DIs and also contributing here. Keep up posted on developments. BTW, what are the amplification components you are "lusting after?"
@jcarcopo Congratulations on the Mini-Ulfs. REALLY looking forward to your impressions once they have settled into your system. The Diavolo's 13 Watts should be more than enough, and when they aren't you've got the perfect replacements! All the best with settling the refund. |
@bullitt5094 PM sent. Thanks. |
@bullitt5094 Terrific news!!! A November surprise. : ) |
