Tekton Double Impacts

David, 
I have much appreciation for you as you know.  Here's my take,  Shadorne is dismissive of Clement Perry and Teajay due to their praise of a speaker heard in their respective systems.  It bothers him that they both find the DI comparable or even better than more expensive speakers.  More expensive speakers they have formally reviewed in their main listening system by the way. 

Shadorne finds this unacceptable and besmirches the  credibility of both! Shadorne has zero listening experience with this same speaker. He has no reference point or context other than price point.   David my friend,  what am I missing here?
Charles 

He Shadome,
Clement Perry has the Double Impacts in his listening room and with components he’s intimately familiar with. I’ve read numerous reviews by him over the years and if anything he tends to gravitate to and favor the higher cost upper end products.
He has been exposed to the very upper echelon of the audio high end.

So it seems his high regard for Tekton Double Impacts is sincere and certainly has context. You may not agree with his conclusions (which is fair) but he is a legitimate and very respected reviewer and listener (as is Teajay). Shadome what is your listening impressions of the Double Impacts and where do they fall short based upon your experience with them compared to the speakers you find preferable? What inspires the automobile analogy?
Thanks,
Charles

Waltersalas,
I just assumed that Shadome has listening experience with the Double Impacts but I certainly could be wrong. Otherwise how  could one express such a definitive opinion without actual listening contact? Again I may be working with an incorrect assumption. 
Charles

Hi Jcarcopo, 
For me it isn't a case of being "too" polite, I'm just asking him to support his comments.  Either he's heard the Double Impacts or he hasn't. I'm open to anyone's opinion on a forum such as this one. I don't expect everyone to agree with my listening impressions.  I do expect people to present a reasonable or credible basis for their comments. That’s all. 
Charles 

Hi Premnath,
Congratulations on getting the Double Impact SE and I believe that they will mate in  excellent fashion with your amplifier. No regrets in my opinion.

Hi Walter,
Your Line Magnetic 508ia with the SE versions? I honestly believe this would be an extraordinary pairing, no doubt whatsoever 😊
Charles

Shadorne, 
In   an earlier post today I asked you to share your listening impression of the Double Impacts.  It seems clear that you have no actual direct listening experience with these speakers. Your car analogy is simply a function of how you believe things should be as opposed to how they may actually be. 

Audio is simple in this regard,  you listen to a product and form an opinion.  Subjective? It's all that we have,  you must hear something in order to properly judge its merit and performance. You present no factual basis for your Double Impact assessment.  Apparently you've determined that you have it figured out based on their cost and nothing more. 

As mentioned above byVitop and I raised a couple of weeks ago,  there is a strong element of snobbery in High End audio amongst some. You appear to fall into this niche.  You haven't heard the Double Impact and likely feel that you don't need to.  You've determined its sonic performance based solely on its cost.  Not a rational position in my opinion. 
Charles 

David,
I respectfully disagree with your post 😊. This has been and continues to be an open thread with different viewpoints and experiences expressed. No rule says we all must agree (and we don’t). You wrote that we see and "hear" differently and that is true. Keyword is hear. So what has Shadorne heard regarding the DI to base his opinion on?

Of course he’s free to post comments here and by the same token people are free to ask for clarification or some modicum of substance to support what he writes. Is this asking too much? To me this is what dialogue is all about. How is he in a position to judge performance of a product he has never heard? How is this enlightenment?
Charles

Eric,
Good point, but again the feedback from dissatisfied customers is based on them having heard the speaker.  Would you accept negative feedback from someone who hasn't even listened to the speakers?
Charles 

Hi David,
Well it looks like we have different perspectives on this matter. I feel the same as Mac and Vitop, someone "hears" the speaker and doesn’t like them, okay no problem. Someone says the speaker isn’t as good as speaker A orB because it doesn’t cost enough is a silly argument IMO. These are very different scenarios which generate different responses. Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. You are still my brother 😊.
Charles

David,
I suspect that we agree more than we disagree. You cited Ezra and that’s a good example because he has solid context. His DI SE speakers compared to his expensive Sonus Fabers. You can agree or not with his personal experiences but he does have vital and very credible context. I’ll be the first to say that there are superb sounding expensive speakers.

A few examples that impressed me significantly
Kaiser Kawero
Tidal Contriva Diadora
Cessaro Liszt
Rockport Altair speakers
Trenner-Friendl  RA Box
Dynaudio Evidence Platinum
TAD Reference One floorstanding

These were all truly excellent in the respective systems I heard them in.
My gut feeling is take the Double Impact SE pair it with a superb source and first rate amplification, it won’t be embarrassed (and not claiming that it would be better). Just a hunch on my part. Just listen.
Charles

Hi Aric,
I can see the advantages of a parallel SET (PSET) design. One issue I’ve seen raised concerning this parallel configuration is maintaining equal power sharing from each tube in the pair. Apparently there’s a tendency for one of the tubes to become dominant and the other tube provides lesspower/current output.

Audio Note has been making PSETs for a long time and I assume that they have solved this problem. It seems that some other PSETs perhaps not. PSET 2A3 or 300b would seem a very good fit with the Double Impact/SE. 
Charles

Aric, 
Thanks for the reply.  Yes,  eventual "drifting"-of matched tubes was the concern. Your solution of having separate bias control for each output tube seems as though it would solve that problem. Aric regarding hum  are you a proponent of DC heating versus AC heating in low power SETs  or is either acceptable to you?
Charles

Hi Aric, 
I really appreciate your clear and thorough answer.  Some really hard core diehards tend to favor AC heating particularly for the 45 and 2A3 tubes. The 300b seems to be the dividing point  (in terms of power) and above this level (say 211 or 845) then DC is preferable for the reasons you gave. 

I've had some very experienced builders say the same as you in that DC can sound every bit as good as AC. Given your knowledge I was interested in your take on this topic. Thanks again. 
Charles 

Tom,
It sounds like you're having a ball with your new KT 88 SEP amplifier.  You may not be able to contain yourself once you get the DI SE paired with this amplifier 😊. 
Charles 

Aric,
I sure agree with your  comments on triode compared to ultralinear mode. Although a 300b SET is my main amplifier I also have 2 PP tube amplifiers.  One is el 34 and the other is 6550/KT 88 and both are switchable between the two modes of operation.  At least for my listening preferences the Triode mode is just better sounding . Totally subjective I acknowledge. 
Charles 

Aric,
I really like the 845 tube,probably as much as I do the 300b. I’ve thought about having a 845 or 211 SET as a second amplifier as I’m keeping the Frankenstein permanently. I don’t use my 2 push pull amplifiers much at all anymore. I suspect that you could build a very fine 845/211 SET.

Here’s my question, would I achieve "maximum " sound quality running these tubes very conservatively at say 15 to 20 watts output rather than the more common 25 to 30 watt range? The emphasis being pure quality of sound not higher power. Or is the sound as good with the higher output?
Thanks,
Charles

So many fine amplifier options are available for this speaker. 
Charles 

Aric, 
Thanks,  the sweetspot operating point of a tube is where I want to be. 18 to 22 watts is far from stressing the 845 which is an additional advantage. 
Charles 

Hi Bill (Grannyring),
I feel that your assessment of the Double Impacts is very astute. Having heard this speaker my impression matches yours. It is a very good sounding speaker. As you point out it isn’t perfect (nor is any speaker) but it has substantial modification potential.

Your scrutiny of the quality of the wire,resistors and capacitors is on the mark (given the part list you provided). You very fairly acknowledge the reasons for the stock parts and the reality of price point and market/manufacturing considerations. You and I both know that judicious selection of premium capacitors, wire, resistors etc can result in truly impressive sound quality improvement.

People upgrade passive parts in 30-40,000.00 peakers so it is not a put down of the Double Impact to suggest the same. Your budget of 1500.00 dollars to upgrade (if so desired) would transform a very good sounding speaker to an even higher level. Good post and advice.you provided to this thread.
Charles

Corelli, 
Well said and so true.  Obviously borne of wisdom gained by the listening  experience. 
Charles 

Hi hfaddict, You’ve got to trust what you hear 😊. That’s an intriguing combination, panel speaker driven by a 50 watt SET amplifier.
Continued blissful listening to you.
Charles

Hi Porscheracer,
Could simply be an example of a very synergistic speaker and amplifier match. Sometimes you just find or stumble across the ideal match. It can truly be trial and error. 
Charles 

Lula,
Based on both professional reviews and owners word of mouth the Sophia 300b SET has exceptionally good sound quality.  I'd think that they'd be a fine match. 
Charles 

Jcarcopo,
I was an early buyer of the Takatsuki when they became available and bought mine directly from Japan. This was about 5 years ago and I payed about 1850.00 USD. I’ve heard 11 different 300b tubes in my amplifier (some bought and others loaned from generous audiogon members).

The very best sounding in my system in alphabetical order
AAVT 32B
Elrog 300b
EML XLS
KR XLS 300b
Sophia Electric Royal Princess
Takatsuki

The very best was the Elrog (but proved to be unreliable). Just a "small"step behind were the Takatsuki and EML XLS. Each is truly excellent in my opinion but have different characters.

I have come to develop a slight preference  for the EML XLS. Others who’ve tried both may prefer the Takatsuki and I understand this. Both are wonderful and I believe that the choice could very well be amplifier/circuit dependent as well as listener preference.

Jcarcopo, the EML XLS is my first choice. I haven’t heard the standard version EML 300b but I been told that it’s a very good sounding tube.
Charles

Hi Jcarcopo, 
I had my Elrogs replaced twice under warranty.  I had the early version of this tube and apparently my amplifier ran them too  hard.  Your Art Audio amplifier could be a better match. The company has new ownership and reportedly has solved the problem with these tubes.  I'm hesitant to step back in and besides I'm just very happy with the EML XLS which is very stout and a wonderful fit with my amplifier. In my opinion you currently have two superb sounding tubes.  I hope the Elrog proves reliable for you. 
Charles

Jcarcopo,
You summed up very well the essential characteristics of the Elrog and the EML. The only Elrog and Takatsuki have a "bit " more inner detail and "slightly" more of an organic nature.  The EML XLS  is nearly as organic but offers a bit more dynamic presentation,  authority  and boldness. To be truthful all 3 are just really excellent 300b tubes.   I can recommend these top tier tubes without reservation.  I'm glad to hear the Elrog has improved its reliability. 
Charles 

Hi Mac,
Would you be interested in trying the Coincident Frankenstein MK II SET  (8 watts) with your speakers to determine how compatible they may be?
Charles 

Mac,
Good point, if this speaker has a challenging impedance characteristics then the Frankenstein wouldn’t be the best amplifier choice. The Linear Tube Audio amplifiers seems a more suitable option. If 48025 is your zip code you can’t be far from me, 48323. I was going to offer you an opportunity to try mine. Another factor  is that your speakers are 4 ohm (I looked it up)  and my Frankensteins have only 8 and 16 ohm taps (my system speakers are 14 ohm nominal).
Charles

As with all audio products the most important question/ criteria is how does it sound? Advertising, marketing and white papers are clearly secondary concerns. Listening determines the  true quality and value of an audio product.  If this Tekton speaker sounds good then one has to conclude that the chosen drivers are wisely selected. 

If a speaker utilizes exotic and expensive drivers and yet it sounds less than good then their pedigree and expense are irrelevant. 
Charles 

Hi Tom,

It's refreshing to read that you've established such trust and good relationship with Aric. As we've discussed before 300b SET circuits are many decades old (and proven when done right).

Aric apparently has a good ear and building talent.  Combine that with serious high quality output transformers, parts and very robust power supply and you should have a top notch SET amplifier. I have no doubt that this will be the case for you. I'm flattered the Frankenstein is your sonic reference measuring stick. 

I can't wait to hear your custom 300b SET amplifier 😊. 
Charles 

Teajay,
I look forward to reading your review as I’ve come to appreciate your truthful non BS reports and impressions.

Corelli, 
I agree with your decision to upgrade to better parts and wire as these aspects really do matter. Higher quality always pays off in the long term.

Hi Mac, I’d like to hear your terrific system once you receive the Linear Tube Audio amplifiers. Just let me know when you have some time.
Charles

Mac,
Given teajay's exceptionally high praise of these speakers and the fact that you have 2 very fine amplifiers you likely have more quality than you realize. 
Charles 

"Analytical/electrical device" Yep, I know where you're coming from.  Many speakers that seem to aspire to an ultra detailed/uber resolution presentation fail to sound natural and realistic. For a 3000.00 USD  speaker to get it right is quite an accomplishment. Sounds as if this may be Tekton's best effort to date. 
Charles 

Tom,
I'm also a fan of live recordings  (especially jazz) here's a recommendation I think that you'll enjoy very much.  "Roger Kallaway At The Jazz Standard " It’s a 2 CD set. 
Kallaway piano
Russell Malone  guitar 
Stephon Harris  vibraphone 
I don't recall the name of the bassist  (but he's good 😊)

Top tier jazz musicians in a very good venue. Wonderful music, these gentlemen can play! Your fine system will definitely  extract the musical  beauty of this recording. 
Charles 

Hi Aric,
Thanks for the additional information.  This custom made 300b  amplifier driving the Double Impact SE will be a fantastic pairing is my prediction. 

Do you have an opinion regarding electrolytic versus "film" capacitors in the power supply (filtration) and is one inherently better than the other ?
Charles 

+1 Sbayne. Tom is going to receive an excellent custom built amplifier from Aric.
Charles 

Listening to Steve’s Tekton review comments I did not infer that he leans toward a "colorful " sounding speaker. In comparison to the B&W 705SE he seems to find the 705 SE good in a "B&W way" implying a specific brand sound signature.

It seems clear that he found the Tekton much more "real" sounding (his own words) reproducing piano. He clearly said there was more realistic weight, scale,dynamics, presence and gravitas via the Tekton. He said it wasn’t merely a "shadow" of a piano.

His description of the Tekton demonstrates to me pretty convincingly he seeks and appreciates realistic reproduction. He also noted the good reproduction of orchestra music and percussion details. He certainly is suggesting/implying that the B&W 705 SE by comparison is more polite and smaller scale in its sound reproduction. Having heard the Tekton Double Impact and SE versions in a very fine audio system I agree with his listening impression of exceptional realism and sense of life/vitality. This isn’t a speaker with a recessed, polite small scale signature.
Charles

The reviewer makes his comparative points so clearly and openly, it seems he’s trying to be very diplomatic toward B&W without appearing to denigrate it relative to the Tekton. He suceeded.😊
Charles

Hi Jcarcopo, 
By all accounts I'm aware of the Crossfire is superb. I'd love to hear this amplifier in a direct comparison to the superb sounding Italian  Viva amplifiers. 
If you decide to get the Crossfire I'm very interested in your listening impressions. 
Charles 

Jcarcopo,
-I’m glad you are having fun with this "ordeal" 😊. Life is to be enjoyed.
Human nature dictates that a few reported bad experiences dealing with retail dealers take precedence over probably 100s (1000s?) of good transactions.

Place of origin regarding manufacturer and assembly should not be ambiguous. Ayon or any other company should be clear and upfront. Having said this the bottom line for me is the sound quality and overall quality of the product. It could be high quality from China or India and mediocre from Europe or North America.

You have a terrific amplifier already but the problem is that there are numerous superb alternatives available and we can’t own them all. I’m thrilled with my Coincident Frankenstein yet I know there are 8 to 10 other amplifiers I’m familiar with that would be as satisfying to have in my system. I only need one out of the excellent pool of amplifiers.
Charles

Judging sound quality of audio products will forever be subjective by default.  There are multiple variables at play that prohibit universal concensus.  That's the beauty of this endeavor,  near endless possibilities of choices/audio products that allow one to seek and obtain the sound they want. 
Charles 

Hi Tom,
I am nappy to know that the EML XLS worked out for you. It’s a superb tube IMO. Your audio system is very high resolution and you have an excellent 300b SET amplifier. Given this I was confident you’d easily hear the attributes of this tube and you did😊. This tube is exceptionally robust and will last for thousands of hours.

BTW the Duelund CAST capacitors you plan to install will only further enhance your (already) fine sound quality and listening enjoyment.
Charles

Hi Bullitt,
I very much appreciate your time in posting listening impressions of the 3 components . The Lyngdorf 2170 definitely seems to be an excellent audio product based on both excellent engineering and implementation. Given what others have said regarding it I’m somewhat surprised that you prefer its sound without the room correction function activated. I’m glad you have discovered such a superb match for your system. Congratulations. 
Charles

Hi Bullitt,
You have no more or "less" clout than any one else posting on this thread. Many contributors here and each with an individual opinion/perspective to share. There is never going to be general consensus on anything here (other than the DI is a very good speaker). That’s the beauty of it all in my opinion. Keep posting 😊
Charles

Bill,
I know how much you enjoyed your AZ Crescendo post modification so this informs me as to how well the modified Double Impacts must sound to you. Your excellent and detailed description is a terrific guide for current and future DI owners who may want to venture down the speaker improvement pathway. Fabulous contribution from you.
Charles

Teajay, 
Is a very credible reviewer who admirably avoids hyperbole.  When he says the Tekton DI competes with expensive speakers such as the Wilson Sasha  and Linear Tube Audio competes with his Pass Labs components I don't doubt him. This is excellent news for passionate music lovers who do not have unlimited budgets. Legitimate upper tier sound quality at achievable cost. 
Charles 

Jcarcopo, 
I have a gut feeling that you're going to be very happy with your new speakers.  Will you listen to them with both the Art Audio amplifier and the Lyngdorf  or is the Art Audio gone now? Either way congratulations. 
Best wishes, 
Charles 

Jcarcopo,
Good grief, sorry to hear about your troubles with this particular vendor. I hope it all works out in your favor ultimately.

Well in terms of power amplifier selection you are certainly at two polar ends of a broad spectrum (wattage and topology), that is for sure. I do look forward to your listening impressions.
Charles