"Where's the beef ?" is the colloquism that comes to mind as the prevailing counter-argument. 😂
Look, if you purchased DIs direct from Eric you avoided dealer markup by buying direct, but with the DIs SE you don't as they are are a dealer marked up product. The sonic improvement likley does justify this added expense irrespective of the actual cost increases relative to performance for dealer markup, but IMHO and humble opinion, and I am unanimous in this, he should jack the price of the DI's up $1,500 because that would allow me to sell my DIs for more money so I can recoup enough money to justify some of this added expense. One hand washes the other. Lol 😂 Just saying... |
@shadorne - you’re a troll
*sorry but you guys are too polite and I’m just not I’m the mood to sugarcoat it." |
Being polite is a good thing. Maybe discounting him as a troll prematurely was myopic on my part.
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Eric said on FB that the mini Ulfberhts were coming very soon. I can't wait to see them. ;-) |
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I like ml like I like my incoherence, I don’t. Their panels never mate to their subs properly and it calls attention to itself. |
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There is a pair of Takatsuki TA-300 300B tubes for sale for $1699 vs their normally ridiculous retail price of $2499, but I can't seem to rationalize that price even if it's 33% off retail. Anyone heard them and think they're better than EML 300B at double the money or the Elrog 300B at $500 more? Somebody talk me out of this... Please! |
@charles1dad thanks, I'm very happy with my elrogs and EML 300bxls. I'm saving my money and passing on these then. BTW the elrogs so far haven't presented any issues, but I've only had them a few months. |
@charles1dad - Thanks, I like them both very much, I find it hard to determine which is better, but I believe the EML is tad more neutral and possibly a hair more dynamic and powerful sounding. The elrog has a finesse about inner detail possibly or I'm just drinking my own kool-aid because they cost more. One thing is for certain, I prefer the pretty glow from the elrog to EML 300bxls and that's worth something right?
@mac48025 - get the elrog they glow prettier then the EML, nuff said..😂
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I'm thinking very hard about getting an Ayon Crossfire III SET amplifier. I need to be talked down. I'm about to have a bipolar spending spree moment.
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@mikeg - Thanks Mike, but I really was hoping for people to talk me out of this impulsive purchase. ;-) I must be as crazy as an Austrian at this point because I haven’t even had my current amplifier for 11 months and I love it just fine. If I never audition the Crossfire I will never know what I’m missing. Seriously though, thanks for the additional info and of course for sealing my fate! :-)
@corelli - At least you actually have my back! I doubled my money selling a batch of my Cryptocurrency Miner hardware on ebay and yes it’s burning a hole in my pocket! ;-) I have heard people allude to the China connection and also to Ayon having some reliability issues, but nothing verifiable is presented on either front by an actual owner on the reliability issues or something concrete that proves that Ayon is made in China. The sales person said, and I’m paraphrasing, "Haters gonna hate!" LOL Seriously though he said reliability is not an issue, but he did indicate that possibly a few people in the industry may have an ax to grind and post negative things.
@all - Going to an Audiogon forum to be talked down from making an impulsive audio purchase is like a heroin addict hanging out with a bunch of junkies expecting to get clean! LOL What the hell was I thinking!
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@david_ten - I agree with you because so far my dealings with Paul at USA Tube Audio have gone really well. He's very matter of fact and confident regarding Ayon amplifiers. |
@charles1dad - See that’s sort of where I am at. I love what I have now and frankly believe very much in "hear no evil and see no evil". I already have a very neutral and enjoyable presentation, so much so that I’m using Reaper Mastering DAW software with some fancy-pants VST plug-ins to add a touch of warmth and richness to the final sound I hear as well some judicious/minor DSP/EQ calibration to account for very slight room/speaker anomalies. ( I know futzing with the signal is heresy to some, but I’m an audio-heretic so It’s okay)
Overall I don’t think it can be improved upon easily without some ’good ole’ confirmation bias which requires spending gobs more money. (I’m somewhat joking, but I’m not..really. I’m cynical that way)
I think the Ayon will also be utterly neutral, possibly flawlessly so, until I add some vst plugins which would likely negate it. So if I refrain from adulterating the sound in the digital domain and if by chance the Ayon perceivably increases dimensionality, soundstage size/depth, creates more of virtual reality effect, or enhances the separation of instruments, blackens the background, or increases palpability then I’ll think it’s totally worth the investment irrespective of the contamination from the placebo effect or my own confirmation bias caused by having spent a wad of money in search of said aforementioned superlatives.
What I am saying, I guess, is that I can’t lose really, but I can be a lot poorer for the effort. Lol
@mikeg - Thanks Mike, now I want the S-5 too. :-)
Thanks for everyone’s help. I know what I must do now.
(Stall for as long as I can before giving in)
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@david_ten - I may have been exaggerating a wee bit.
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@sprocket75 - you mean these? https://www.monoprice.com/pages/tube_ampsThey're ridiculously cheap, but most are hybrids and I only like set amps. I can't imagine they sound too good at their price points, but it would funny if it sounded decent. I might buy one and send it to my solid-state audiophile buddy as practical joke. 😂 |
@lmswjm - I live only 15 minutes away from Cary, NC. I could go audition it for you and then buy it for myself if it sounds good? lol |
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Eric informed me via fb that my mini-ulfberhts were nearing completion. So I'm guessing I'm allowed to mention it here now. They just need a polished finish and final assembly and I'll be enjoying them very soon. I'm excited to hear them and can't wait to see how they turned out in Spanish Tile color with a high gloss finish.
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@charles1dad I will be driving them with the Diavolo or a pair of Nord ncore monoblocks. Unfortunately, the Lyngdorf was supposedly stolen by a substitute UPS driver and I’ve been supposedly* refunded for the transaction due to this mishap as the police supposedly have the lyngdorf as evidence. This person has lied so much to me that I’m not sure what to believe, but I say "supposedly" thrice because honestly I don’t if they are full of caca. They’ve managed to delay me a month on 2 power conditioners I ordered, and this lyngdorf purchase. If you do business with core power technology, God help you is all I can say. Edit: *Supposedly because the refund is delay from PayPal due to lack of funds from the merchant.
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@charles1dad Oh, the Nords are on the same page as the Diavolo. They are more alike than different. I was happy with both equally. I might say the Diavolo was a smidge smoother, but the Nords are very adept at dynamics and graceful while doing it. They are nearly the perfect embodiment of both solidstate and tubes. Their custom buffer stage is something else. |
@treebeard1 You are probably the reason my speakers are Spanish Tile! Did you post pics of your di’s on FB and I asked you what color they were ans you told me they were Spanish Tile?Then thank you very much sir!
@charles1dad I’m totally covered. I was hoping to utilize the lyngdorf as a 2nd zone listening room source/dac/amp, but its fine, I’ll be okay 👌despite having dealt with two separate entities that jerked me around trying to acquire one. |
@mac48025 - Thanks for the information. I'm glad you told me. I will know by Monday if the refund was applied via PayPal after they retry his bank account. If that doesn't go through I will seek a claim directly through PayPal. My case is iron clad since he did initiate the refund at least despite it bouncing his checking account once already. I'm really excited about the mini Ulfberhts. I can't wait to hear them. I hope they are able to be driven by my set amp. The efficiency is a bit lower; around 95db, but hopefully my emission labs 300b xls can still drive them at 13wpc, but if not the Nord monoblocks are 400wpc into 4ohms and they already sound great on my di's. They really are very good class d amps. My friend borrowed them and put them up against class a pass labs monoblocks and they fared quite favorably.
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Took care of my shipping damaged driver issue the same day I received my pair, but I did use a phone. |
I just can’t justify the cost or quantify the measureable improvements of using uber expensive capacitor replacements in the DI’s crossover over any affordable tweeter’s gross distortion which would swamp any improvement by orders of magnitude. |
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@hfaddict - I know, this is about as rowdy as it gets in here. 😂 |
@bullitt5094 - that's great news. Can't wait for your review of them.
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To me, push-pull amps suck in general, Class D are less sucky than most push-pull, and certain SET amps are better than everything. It’s really quite simple too me based on my own bias and what I want to hear.
I’m not afraid to admit that I’m very curious about the Lyngdorf as I like to employ room/speaker correction in the form of various DAW software and vst plugins currently. Does anyone else here like ambiophonics or have messed with it? I’ve been using Electrovoice’s Ambiophonics vst plug-in through Reaper DAW software, along with several other vst plugins to digitally eq the sound, and having a load of fun listening to my recordings without stereo crosstalk. It brings so much more enjoyment listening to my recordings now and it’s more of an upgrade than anything else I could have wasted $10k on.
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Yep, I'm a moron I guess.
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@aniwolfe Thanks, I'm excited to receive them and hear them for the first time. |
I'll probably get them after I return from my trip from CA, end of June. |
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@charles1dad I'm glad you're uninterested in my initial listenings impression thanks for sharing. 😂 |
I looked inside my speakers and there was indeed an IOU note for a pair of missing resistors. J/K ~ My pair sound just fine even without any added resistance. Keep Calm & Play On! |
I bought LiteCoins pretty cheap. I'm desperately trying to hold on to them, but it might be time to buy a new pair of speakers 🔊, that is, if say the mini-ulfs come out soon. |
@mac48025 Placing an alligator or crocodile clip on the terminal between the wire and the terminal mount will act like a heatsink and not overheat and possibly desolder the tinsel leads to the diaphragm.
Edit: As a precaution if the alligator clip you use is very high tension and has really sharp teeth, maybe put a layer of aluminum foil between it and the litze wire behind the terminal. Some alligator clips are meaner than others. No sense damaging the delicate tweeter wire. |
@grannyring Yes sir, that's the one. No teeth at all is best. (deletes funny double entendre) |
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Dueland should be valued in bitcoin at those remarkable prices. |
I drive a car now, because other people in cars on their cellphones run over people who don't and I wanted to live.
~Former Motorcyclist |
Just chiming in. Received my DIs a couple of weeks ago. A little about my background: In the past I've worked in the high-end audio retail side for about a decade and the engineering and manufacturing side for part of that time. I've owned Von Schweikert, Dali, Analysis Audio panel speakers, Klipsch, and now Tekton. I don't like push-pull amps (tube or SS), period. I gravitated to SET Amps early on and have never looked back with the exception of a few CLASS D amps which were purchased because the speakers dictated it.
I currently own an Art Audio Diavolo 300B Copper Reference SET Tube Amplifier (10wpc) from the UK made by Tom Willis. This is the 2nd one I've owned, which might speak volumes to some regarding my feelings toward their beautifully crafted and seductive sounding amplifiers; albeit my feelings toward their price point is a bitter pill to swallow.
I use a Benchmark DAC2 HGC for my digital/preamp front-end and ROON's Software for music management.
I use Analysis Plus Big Silver in a biwire arrangement and love their build quality, double 9awg size, and their utter neutrality, but not for any placebo related perceived improvement, per se.
Compared to the Klipsch's 101db sensitive @ 8ohms I can tell you that with only 10wpc the Double Impacts play much louder and do not soft-clip like the Klipsch easily do. It's been said they fudge their sensitivity a bit, but then again, many others do. I can tell you I'm able to push my amplifier much farther to very loud satisfying volume levels in my 16x14x9ft room.
Im very pleased with the Double Impact' s horn-like dynamics and appreciate that it doesn't have to come at the expense of the subsequent horn-loaded sonic aberrations that I find compromise their sound in a deleterious way.
The DIs are a very musical speaker when compared to analytical or hyper-detailed speakers such as a few Wilson's or B&W offerings. They image incredibly well with an exceptional soundstage height, width, and depth that leaves me wanting for nothing.
A big pet peeve of mine with regards to perceived sound quality is top-to-bottom coherence, something many speakers manage to fail at surprisingly often, some more than others (ie. Most lowered tiered Martin Logans as an egregious example...there, I said it =-P).
The DIs to my ears present a very coherent top-to-bottom sound which I suspect lends to their big and bold wall-of-sound presentation and it's sure to please and beguile the owners of electrostatic or planar magnetic speakers.
The most two important things that must be present in spades for me to be satiated sonically and emotionally are micro-dynamics and palpability in the midrange.
SET amps of good engineering will get you part of that equation only to have it nefariously raped and robbed by lesser or simply incompatible speakers. In my system, the DI's reproduce micro-dynamics and palpability in spades, and with startling delight, with all the accompanied emotional hair-raising, tear-jerking, and goose-bump inducing pleasure that comes with it.
I'm very fortunate to have found this thread and the one on Audiokarma before going down the rabbit hole of spending 5-10 times more for a speaker that would provide nothing more to my enjoyment. For this reason, I applaud and kindly stand in ovation to those of you who pioneered the way and contributed to this thread which helped me find such a rare unicorn in the audio world; extremely high value with no audible compromise which lurks in these pages of this fine thread.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Carcopo
Raleigh, NC
Music lovers are always welcomed to my home for a listen!
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@invictus005 I read nothing of value to your sweepingly negative and unfounded opinion. Everyone's a patent attorney and a critic these days, it seems. |
mdlofnwhr, I’m glad you’re going with the DIs. I love a good SET Tube Amplifier, but I’m biased in my opinion. (tube humor) I have ordered a pair of Nord Acoustic nforce hypex based 400w monos for a client’s install and I’m sort of kicking myself for not having them delivered to my address instead of at his just so I could have auditioned them with the DIs prior to setting them up for him on a pair of klipsch I recently sold him. What brand were you considering? I felt like Nord offered a great product for the money, but I’m curious if you decided on a different brand. If I was going with an amp other than a SET tube amplifier, a great Ncore Class D would be in my short list. Good luck with your system! Let us know how things are going! |
@stelo I just got the first pair of Encores yesterday afternoon. They required no break-in to sound glorious right of the box which I found odd at first, but I wasn't complaining either. They came perfectly packaged and in pristine condition. The spanish tile polished finish was flawless and came out gorgeous. My initial listening impressions are that it’s more coherant and natural sounding than the DIs in the midrange and with much better bass articulation and weight. The midrange array really shines here guys. Voices and instruments are flat out better, more detailed, effortless, and more palpable with a remarkable liquidity. There’s no sense of congestion and a very noticeable effortlessness to the array that is absolutley non-fatiguing even after going on 10 hours of nonstop listening. This tweeter array goes down to 300hz, a full octave lower. I can’t stress how much I love the natural and effortless presentation of the array. The new 11.1" bass drivers are very detailed and handled koto drums with more slam, definition and detail than the DIs could muster. The image height and width are better than the DIs and the speakers dissapeared without any lengthy attention to placement. They are a lot of speaker, but diminutive enough to work in my modest room size 16’x14.5’x9’. I have zero regrets about this upgrade and I’m glad I didn’t go with the Ulfberhts because they would have been too much for my room size-wise. I’m driving them with 5-6 wpc using my Art Audio Diavolo SET Tube amplifier to very loud and satisfying levels despite they lacking a couple of db efficiency compared to my DIs. There’s something very special about this speaker. Rarely am I so enthralled that I listen to 3am and counting. These speakers are next level for sure and combine really outstanding drivers and crossover parts quality with a price I could live with that made me feel I was getting the improved sound quality to justify their $8500 price tag. I think Eric will sell more of these than the Ulfberhts at their more reasonable price point and their ability to work with a wider range of room sizes. My only gripe, they weigh 175lbs each! I had 4 friends over and they were absolutley blown away by the sound of these speakers. If you get a pair, you will not regret your decision. |
@charles1dad Thanks, I'll get around to swapping amps soon to see how they fair with the Nords I have on hand, but for a few days I just want to bask in the glory of the sound I'm already getting.
@david_ten Thanks, yeah rarely am I so enjoying my listening session that I'm unable to sleep because I'm enjoying myself to much.
More to come! |
@tektondesign They are very special to me too. My hat's off to you sir. The Encores have surpassed my wildest expectations. Perfectly executed to these ears. |
For immediate release
June 2nd 2017
Tekton Design LLC - we’ve completed the design phase of the patented Ulfberht loudspeaker....
Eric Alexander - Designer
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Hey Eric,
I’m loving my DIs, but I’m also excited about the Ulfberhts.
I don’t suppose you would consider offering any trade-in or trade up program for recent DI owner’s who need an excuse to upgrade?
Just think about it, because I am thinking hard about it. ;-) |
@david_ten lol. Well played.
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