Tekton Double Impacts

Was just wondering if anyone reading this thread has any experience with the Theoretica Bacch 3D playback system?

Good stuff baranyi!

Bill (grannyring),
I owe you a debt for giving great advice regarding building my system and selling gear. Thanks for the great feedback on the DI’s. I believe we hear things the same way. I’m glad to hear that you’re willing to hang on to the DI’s and experiment because you hear potential there. Your contributions will be sorely missed and it’s understandable why you would want to cut back on the unnecessary drama. We should recognize that we all have different tastes, rooms, goals and signal chains, etc. Many, many variables. As readers, we should be able to pick out the value of each post and not scrutinize what doesn’t match our own experience specifically. Thanks Bill!

Bill M

Well said milpai 

Thank you Kenny, best of luck to you as well 

@ccc8282 

People on this thread have consistently recommended giving the DI's "room to breathe" by allowing several feet from the front and sidewalls to achieve optimal sound. Since that is not an option for you, I would recommend auditioning the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, primarily for its room correction. When using that system, part of the set up advises you to move the speakers within a few inches from the front wall. It's my belief that you could achieve optimal, uncompromised sound despite your limitations. As another bonus, the magic of this unit to achieve this optimal sound: Use it to replace your DAC, preamp and power amp as well. 

Tempting Dennis Had SET creation for seemingly reasonable $:


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F152761532648

I recall Eric saying something along the lines that the 1812's deliver better dynamics (understandably), and the Ulf's yield a more ideal hi-fi accuracy. 

Congrats nitrobob. What's the lead-time? Will be interested in your comparison 

Hey Bullitt, congrats!
I’d be interested on how you got those 200 lb. behemoths up those dang stairs of yours!
Bill M

Congrats theachean,
Sounds like you put together a great system for really reasonable money. I’ve wanted to hear one of Dennis Had’s amps for a while now. I know the Brilliance is one of Eric’s favorite designs. No doubt you’re getting good sound. Good luck!

I recently placed my order for the DI's and have spoken with Eric several times. He universally recommended the 4 ohm version. I believe the 8 ohm is more pricey as well. 

Walter,
I've been very interested in the LM-508IA myself, and in the process of tracking one down currently. I read how it had performance advantages over the well regarded LM-518IA in direct comparison.

Have you compared the integrated preamp versus any external preamps?

Since I may likely have the same set-up as you, would you mind sharing which tubes you settled on please?

Thanks,
Bill

Thanks for the welcome Kenny, I placed my order on Friday. Eric says I should have them most likely delivered to NY within 2 weeks. I ordered the upgraded version in bronzed orange (less red, more neutral color). I'm just as excited at the prospect of getting my first serious tube amp to complement the DI's. 

I'm coming from a NHT Xd system that once consisted of 4 satellites and 4 subs. I've since broken that down and am running it as the ideal 2.2 bedroom system. 

Cheers,
Bill M

Yes, similar experience. I was briefly thinking First Watt J2 with 8 ohm DI's because that would draw twice the power from that particular amp (15 watts from  4 ohms / 30 watts from 8 ohms). Eric expressed that he thought the 8 ohm version was less optimal, plus I didn't want to spend extra cash anyway. 

Not to de-rail the thread too much, but any recommendations on speaker cables?

Has Teajay or anyone else had any experience with both Tekton and Zu?
I'm also interested in the Druid V. 

Thanks Kenny, that's extremely helpful. Very impressive performance vs. Zu. I should be getting my DI's later this week. 

1812's for sale on this site for $7K. Eric said they would best the Ulfberht's for live recordings and dynamics. The Ulfberht being better suited for more traditional hifi. 

DI's in the house. Fit and finish, esthetics surpassed my expectations. Very nice indeed. The bronzed orange was a good choice afterall. I posted a picture on my page. I'm waiting on a proper amp still. Temporarily powering them with a higher powered headphone amp for now. I hear a lot of potential so far. Very satisfied thus far. 

My pair was ordered 6/8, so about 3 weeks. Shipped to NY. Very impressive considering he was down 1-2 staff members for a time. 

Nice post Jonathan 

@milpai

Sources: Theta Data III, Yggdrasil, Modwright Sony CD player. Actually iPad streaming through an AirPort via Yggy is better than I would have thought. Convenience has its merits. I’ve also heard modifying a MHDT Pagoda yields great results.

Everything else is up for grabs. I’m getting very good sound (easily exceeding my expectations) temporarily using an Audio-GD Master 6 SS preamp and a simple pro audio 2 Ch Roland 150 watt power amp (which is only turned up to 9:00). Ultimately, I’ll be exploring tube based amplification options. The DI’s seem like a perfect option to build a system around. The DI SE and Ulfberht II’s have my attention as well.

Someone asked about the stands in the picture. They are the IsoAcoustics ISO-L8R430.

Bill

A couple of questions I'll throw out there to no one in particular:

Anyone have experience with Linear Tube Audio AND Melody preamps?

There have been mention of 2A3 and 300B SET amps.
What about the 845's?

Terry,

Thanks for the heads-up on that KingKo integrated review. I found the Steve Hoffman thread on it where the reviewing author gives yet more details. Supposedly it's a very good headphone amp too, that can do a great job with the Sennheiser HD600's, which is no easy task. Definitely not an after thought. I believe there were additional windings from the transformer to the headphone out, which would most likely make all of the difference. Possibly making this a tough standalone headphone amp to beat for the price. 

Forgive me if you can't post links
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/kingko-ka-101-experiences.673633/

Sounds like a wonderful little amp for very little money. Like you mentioned, supposedly easier to take it even further with inexpensive tube upgrades and adding a dedicated preamp, not that it's required to make it sound good. 

I will most likely buy this amp to compare with some others as I continue to build my system around the DI'S. 

If it pans out, the DI's with the KingKo amp might be the budget system to beat. 

Bill

I took the plunge. I believe the exchange is $832 with shipping included. Delivery supposedly within 2 weeks. I emailed back and forth with King himself several times before purchasing. Very courteous and responsive. 

Here’s another request for Bill to please keep posting his uncensored adventures in Tekton mod’ing here in this thread 

My 12 watt P/P KingKo KA-101 delivered very quickly, 9 days after it was ordered. Just picked it up from the post office. Initial impressions tonight. 

Bill M

Okay, I don't know how useful this will be considering that I don't have a good point of reference for comparison. I borrowed a Roland SRA-200E 150 watt pro audio power amp to get me going with the DI's. The Roland surpassed my expectations as a loaner. Very good sound quality.

The KingKo KA-101 was clearly better as expected. Listening to classic R&B, quality of the bass to me was the most obvious improvement. My Lover's Prayer by Otis Redding, convincingly puts a Fender Precision bass through an Ampeg B15 amp right in the room. Even at low volume, bass gravitas is realistic some how. I guess that's another striking attribute of the DI's, in conjunction with the KingKo: Striking sound with realistic dynamics at low listening levels. This illustrates the recent theme in this thread whereby less is more when you have speaker efficiency and quality amplification. Where in this world, 12 watts > 150 watts.

Using the KA-101 as a power amp with my Audio-GD Master 6 pre was another clear step up in quality. I would have preferred to use it as an integrated for simplicity's sake, but it was not to be. In combination with Yggdrasil, things were quite good indeed. These impressions were done straight out of the box, with no burn-in.

Of course things should significantly improve even further by swapping tubes. Here is what King recommended in the article's interview:

"I think the amplifier is just fine with the tubes that I supply as they are the Shuguang tubes from China. That said I think there are some big improvements that are attainable through tube rolling. The tubes that make the biggest impact on my amp are the 5AR4 Rectifier and 12AX7 preamp tubes. I suggest the NOS RCA 5U4G which is a 5AR4 equivalent. And I suggest the Gold Lion Gold Pin 12AX7, followed by the Tungsol 803s gold pin and EH (Electro Harmonix) Gold Pin. The EH is inexpensive and can be a little noisier in dynamic passages. There are many more expensive tubes that you may like better but these tubes are very good and quite reasonable. For the 12AU7, I prefer NOS from Brimer and Amperex, and finally I like the Gold Lion EL84s."

Some other R&B classics that showcased a large, detailed soundstage were:
"Trust In Me" and "At last" by Etta James
"A Change is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke
The Etta James' tunes were eerie. I turned the volume down several times because I was convinced someone was in the room with me.

I'll keep updating as the journey continues. I hope to audition other low watt tube amps to see how things compare.

Bill M

My 2 cents David fwiw: Transparency of a speaker will determine the appropriate quality of the other upstream components in a system. Sensitivity of a speaker will of course determine how much wattage is required to efficiently power them to greatest effect. Instinctively, I want to find that sweet spot if it exists. Obviously you don’t want to use insufficient power, but I wouldn’t want to enter the domain of overkill either. I’d rather invest in quality of watts than quantity. I believe system synergy relies on the interaction of these two components most dependently. Whereas, a high quality source will probably be a more universal solution to most systems.

I like the way Terry approaches system building by starting with the end points. That being a transparent, efficient pair of speakers and a high quality source. Then nailing down a preamp that has extreme amplification synergy with those speakers because of said attributes. Lastly, workout and invest in the number of, and type of quality watts required to hit the proverbial sweet spot in the pursuit of audio nirvana.

Bill M

@david_ten : Yes

@craig:  I would also agree with vitop. The Lyngdorf is quite intriguing. 

One analogy might be how a normally aspirated 911 would destroy a Dodge Demon on the track when it comes to lap times...😏

When is all is said and done, the one common finding is that the DI's sound damn good no matter what type of amplification is employed. Hi or low power, SS or tube, budget or elite. It seems like people have achieved different ways to get to the same completely satisfying end point. 

I can understand the skepticism of a $3K cable (as many would be), but just state it as such and leave it at that unless you have experience with that specific cable in some regard.

IMO, the DI, especially the SE, would be the perfect tool to assess all aspects of upstream components. Reading about listener’s nuanced experiences about supporting gear is a testament to the level of transparency that Tekton has achieved. 

I believe the Electrons are slightly less sensitive than the DI's. Not sure if that will be of significance or not. I personally would go with the LTA MZ2-S, which is probably the most popularly satisfying preamp on this thread. Especially if I had a 2A3 amp in mind. I believe that teajay favored this particular combo over all others that he tried.

@vitop:

About the Ulf jr's: How tall are they? I would assume they also have the 15 tweeter arrays with 4 low mid drivers.  What's the size and configuration of the bass drivers? Thanks
Bill M

@evolvist:

"Remember, my Linn has Space Optimization, which is a unique room correction that doesn’t use a mic. So, you measure the speakers by distance from various locations in the room, tell it what the floor is made of, the walls, windows, etc, etc, and it takes the room out of the equation, as opposed to getting readings from a much more fallible mic setup."

Please expand on this sentiment. Why would a mic set-up be more fallible? I would be interested in reviewing any reliable source of information that would support this. 

Well put. I'm also interested in the Lyngdorf solution. It seems to deal with many of the valid shortcomings that evolvist listed. To be honest, I wouldn't even consider tackling room correction that wasn't already proven and simple.  

@grannyring :

Assuming that you tried feeding a separate power amp(s) from your Lyngdorf front end, I'm guessing that there wasn't real improvement to be had over what the TDAI-2170 already has built in? Thanks 

Bill M

Thank you for the details. Considering the components that it replaces, it's sounds like it's a steal. My Yggy + SS pre + $800 budget Kingko EL84 amp comes in at a higher cost. 

On paper, an Ulfberht variation + the TDAI-2170 could set the bar for price / performance. 

Just another friendly reminder to tighten up your drivers. The bigger the driver, the more turns I was able to achieve. I finally got around to doing it today. 

Looking forward to hearing how that works out!

@evolvist

Did Eric happen to mention how close the mini Ulfberht gets to the full sized version performance wise?

Bill M

Kinda crazy. So, smaller cabs and a combined 8" less in bass driver size saves you $4500? Assuming he's keeping the 15 tweeter / 4 mid driver design the same. It would have made sense to me to keep the 2 10" drivers of the DI's together in the bottom of the cab, but what do I know? Eric hasn't taken any mis-steps yet. 

I would be be more lenient with the time allowance thing, but that's just me. A brand new design being released and all. Plus I'd bet this thread has increased sales numbers significantly, so he may be dealing with increased demand as well. 

Those Enzo 2.7's would probably make a sweet secondary system or a great primary budget system 

Here's hoping Jeffery still wishes to contribute to this thread. It would be diminished if that were not the case. I'd be interested in him experimenting with positioning, if only temporarily so, to report any perceivable changes. Many are aware of ideal positioning, but don't necessarily adhere to those ideals due to practicality. I'm not entirely convinced that he has to do that to thoroughly enjoy the Ulf's. Only one way to find out. 

Thank you Jeff for all of your efforts!

I feel like handing out cigars. I’m officially joining the Ulfberht club after talking with Eric today. I’m glad he’s plenty busy now, he deserves it. Less than 2 months ago, it took him 2-3 weeks to deliver my DI’s. Now, it’s a 3 month wait for the Ulfberhts. I don’t mind the wait at all. It’ll give me time to sell some equipment and work out my final signal chain. I know that this is a hobby of tweaks and changes, but it’s my belief that this very well could be my ideal system for years to come. Honestly speaking, I could have been completely happy with the upgraded DI’s if there was no such thing as Ulfberhts. I’ve had many "things couldn’t sound any better than this" moments with the DI’s.

Bill M

One thing I have believed since first talking to Eric about the no-comprimise, full-sized Ulfberhts is that they are not going to sonically overwhelm most rooms. It's his belief that speakers don't work that way. It's more likely that they will visually overwhelm the room however. I'm going to have the speakers painted a neutral color that will match the walls in the room.

Btw, he mentioned that someone's Mini's were getting painted today!

"I love the grills on the Ulfs, too. I mean, these aren’t the most attractive speakers in the world. The grills certainly help."

To each, their own. I think the grills look quite nice and work well in Jeffery’s room. I don’t think he has any other option there. In my room however, they will be displayed in their full splendor. I have more cubic space and lighter colors to allow that to happen.


"You’re right; people should jump on board now before these go through the roof....If Eric could just find the help he needs to get his product out while people are getting hooked on Tekton, then he’ll stand a great chance to raise is prices...and the people will follow."


I admit that I had an innate sense of urgency when placing my order yesterday, I guess unconsciously considering wait time and pricing. I had a sense of relief that I was officially in the que after hanging up. This Sasha comparison is not going to quell the fires any.

I can honestly say that I don’t believe Eric has any underlying desires to increase his profit margins. When I talk to him what comes across is his genuine excitement for what he’s created, his desire to spread the word. I’ll interject on my own maybe a little deserved "I told you so" as well.

At the same time, how else does one deal with increasing demand versus potentially compromising product quality with increased rates of production? I’m sure it’s a nice problem for Eric to have. I’ll spare you all the Karma pun that just crossed my mind...

The challenges of piano reproduction came up yesterday. Eric mentioned he discussed this with Terry recently. I was just going through a string of different recordings of Bach’s Goldberg Variations, the vast majority of which are piano performances. I stumbled upon Mahan Esfahani’s award winning harpsichord recording of that work. It left me slack-jawed. One of the most powerful recordings I have heard on the DI’s. It simply filled the room with one of the most immersive, dynamic sounds I have heard. It was on a level clearly above any of the piano recordings that I demo’d.

http://www.mahanesfahani.com/recordings/

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Mahan-Esfahani/dp/B01FYHNG9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&...