Grannyring,
I know you've tried various configurations of direct source-amplifier and also passive components. It appears your ears lead you back to quality active line stages. You must have recognized that something vital was missing musically/emotionally without their presence.
Charles, |
Vicdamone and Grannyring (Bill), here's another vote. |
Swamp, you speak for many of us on this site in regards to Al.
Charles, |
Jon,
Good post and you're just another example of why we have to actually listen and decide. I on general principle prefer the simpler path when it involves audio. In this regard I should strongly lean toward a direct source-amplifier approach or use a passive line stage- volume control. There's one problem however, when I listen it's undeniable that the high quality active line stages(certainly not all preamps can do this) sound better and provide more realism. They have the ability to apparently preserve more musical information, tone and nuance that's missing when these components are absent in the system. They IMO present a far more developed and "complete" sound. Leaner and thinner sound character doesn't= detail and transparency, just an inadequate ability to convey all of the audio signal intact. |
Phusis,
I make the assumption we (or most) rely on what's heard to form an impression. As we are all different there'll be varying conclusions and choices made. My experience happened to be very similar to what Jon had written and I wanted to respond. You have your own experiences to share and certainly others can relate to you and your outcomes as well.
What I described has absolutely nothing to do with you preferences and the converse is true, they're completely independent of one another. We are just two people who happened to have different views. What I wrote about
the sound of passive-direct compared to good actives is simply what I
heard. I have no problem at all with your listening encounters/ comparisons
(how could I?), we both were expressing our opinions on an open forum. There's no rule that says we must agree with each other. You've recognized what sounds preferable to your ears and I've done the same. The ultimate result is we're happy with our individual choices.
Charles, |
Jon,
I do agree that art and science are combined when designing and building audio components. The ear of the designer is a crucial ingredient. If it were exclusively hard science then one could rely only on mathematics and equations and then confirm with measurements. It obviously is much more involved than that, just listening makes that apparent. General engineering priciples can't be ignored but there's certainly a lot left to individual designer interpretation given the vast choices of different sounding components.
Charles, |
Marqmike,
Well said,
Some will prefer active and others will choose a passive. The fact that there's a very viable market for both is all the proof we need. You're right, variety is good and there are many fine components to select from.
Charles, . |
George,
The constant repeating of a fallacy doesn't make it right. Over the years enough members on this site have tried your Light speed product and some found it inferior to their own active preamps. Get off your wobbly soapbox, you are the epitome of the proverbial broken record. It's clear there are satisfied fans of both passive and active components.
Cheers,
Charles, |
George,
No one is making any up, just carefully read the well written posts. It's genuine irony that you refer to those who don't happen to share your views as "flat earthers" why is that necessary? Atmosphere is responding to you with sound logic and intelligence. I can understand that you don't agree with him or others with alternative positions, but the best you have is a retort of "flat earthers"? It comes across as very weak and bereft of reasoning. You demonstrate little humility and open minded acceptance of others knowledge and their listening experiences. By the way did you noticed none of the active preamp advocates criticized Phusis? They simply shared their own perspectives which is what these forums are all about.
Cheers, |
Knghifi,
Did you use your Light speed preamp with the Krells? Seems like it would be a suitable match .
Charles |
|
Hello Phusis,
It seems you and I are actually in agreement, we both use live acoustical music as a very useful template. We both adhere to the concept of simply trusting our ears when decisions are made regarding preferred audio components. Of course we may very well reach different conclusions even if we both were listening to the same identical components/systems.
Thats perfectly fine as individual taste and a particular bias for a certain sound that is deemed right will surely vary amongst individuals. I believe both of us are confident and secure with our paths toward audio-musical satisfaction. Take care.
Charles, |
Knghifi,
Thanks for your reply. I recalled you and Grannyring have tried the Light speed in the past.
Charles, . |
Audiolabyrinth,
If you get an opportunity to hear the Atma-Sphere MP-1 I think you'll be highly impressed, it's very good sounding.
Charles, |
A friend has this preamp and the MA-1 amplifier. I've also placed my SET amp in this system and with either amplifier it was clear this is an excellent component. Many good attributes, transparency, minimal coloration, open with exceptional dynamic energy and quite natural sound ( most important to me). Obviously you can learn more from Ralph than me.
Charles, |
Response34,
I wish you continued sucess with your Purity Audio components, people love your various models of Line stages.
Charles, |
Audiolabyrnith,
I am not certain what you imply by "tube magic" what attracts me to tube component is their musical honestly and thus a more natural and realistic sound. There are some tube components that seem to add a false warmth coloration and those types have never interested me. I don't care for most SS components as they tend to wash out the natural tone, body, bloom and vibrancy that exists in live music. The Atma-Sphere preamp along with the top echelon tube units just gets closer to the truth with less editorializing.
I don't know if this applies to you or not,but what many peopl here refer to as "neutral" SS sound is sterile, lifeless and artificial to me. YMMV is understood.
Charles, |
Swampwalker,
You have a VAC Renaissance amplifier? I've always thought highly of those push pull 300b designs. You prefer the Atma-Sphere amplifier instead? Different flavors for sure, I can understand the appeal of either depending on a given system's desired character.
Charles, |
Audiolabyrinth,
There are certainly very worthy contenders in the realm of premium level tube preamplifiers. I won't attempt any effort to rank them or declare a"best", just too many variables ( system, personal taste) are involved.
I can give you a starting point "short list" of some that have gotten repeated universal praise on the forums by happy owners. Alphabetically,
1, Atma-Sphere MP-1
2, Coincident Statement Line stage
3, TRL DUDE ( with Duelund CAST caps )
4, VAC Signature MK II
Believe there are more, I metioned these as Ive heard all four (own the Coincident) and could recommend them without hesitation. Each one will have their own enthusiastic advocates touting their many virtues.
Another thing, these four are by High End standards reasonably affordable new or used.
A good friend has the Absolare Passion Signature line stage that I've heard many times and is truly superb. But it's ultra expensive and would compete with the Robert Koda or Lamm Reference cost wise.
Take your time,
there are excellent choices available for tube preamps.
Charles, |
Hi Swampwalker,
Those sure are some special speakers you'll be listening to. When you have the time let me know how they sound driven by the Coincident (Frankenstein or the prior model 300b amp Israel made?).
Charles, |
Audiolabyrinth,
The Lamm I cited above should have been the LL1 Signature model and not the Reference line stage. |
|
Swampwalker,
Arthur Savatore and others have said that the older Coincident Parallel SET 300b were excellent sounding. My guess is that paired with a Feastrex field coil OB speaker this could be quite a match.
Charles, |
It's never a bad idea to take anyone's opinion with a gain of salt. Swamp walker will soon be able to hear and form his own impression. Over the years I've found Savatore's opinions to be strikingly on the mark regardless of the brand he's evaluating. It seems we hear things in a similar manner.
Charles, |
Hi Brownsfan,
Ironically Salvatore was a very staunch supporter of passive preamps or direct source to amplifier until he auditioned the active Coincident line stage, same outcome concusion as you experienced. He utilized the Bolero test during his evaluation.
Charles, |
Thanks George for the link,
It appears that Salvatore has two top recommendations which depend on system needs and configuration. These two are his only class A selections .
Passive) EMIA TVC.
Active) Coincident line stage.
Charles, |
I agree with Salvatore's two conclusions. We all know the final choice will depend on the specific component under consideration, system compatibility and actually "listening". People who trust their ears will choose which of the two options suit them best, as Salvatore obviously concedes. Try both and the decision won't be difficult once heard, it will be one or the other that ultimately involves you more with your music (you'll know).
Charles, |
Grannyring,
That was probably the most logically expressed post on this often repeated topic as I've ever read. You sum it up accurately as well as beautifully. Folks, go with what sounds best to you.
I didn't know you had experienced the Light speed on three separate occasions. You certainty believe in thorough scrutiny and a fair shake.
Charles, |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
Al and Ralph have given you a very "clear and correct" explanation regarding your concerns. Carefully re-read what they both have written.
Charles, |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
If you heard the Atma-Sphere MP-1 I believe you'd absolutely love what it would bring to your system, I'd trust Ralph's assurances (he been doing this successfully a long while). But if you're that apprehensive maybe you should forget about using a great tube preamp.
Charles, |
Another thing,
Consider the multitude of people who are using tube preamps with SS amplifiers and this has occurred for many years quite successfully. I believe your contact at Krell planted a needless bug of worry and anxiety.
Good Luck,
Charles, |
Ralph,
What more can you say to alleviate his concern? If he's not convinced of what you've told him he may never be, despite many years of safe trouble free (of DC issues) user evidence. I think George likes to get under your skin given his post above.
Charles, |
|
He's very transparent.
Audiolabyrinth, look at Atma-Sphere's stellar company track record with their products for decades.
Who's more credible Ralph or George in your opinion? Give it some rational thought.
Charles, |
Al,
You are the man! At this point I don't know what more "need be said".
Charles, |
Audiolabyrinth,
You've had some unfortunate experiences with audio components. I wish you the best and hope this time around you have a sucessful outcome. I do hope you're able to hear the Atma-Sphere MP-1, you'll like it I'm certain.
Regards,
Charles, |
