The Palladian-A step beyond

Dear thuchan, The 'art of teasing' is unknown in Mexico so you

are wasting your time. To assume that Raul would ever buy

anything designed by Dertonarm is like assuming that Trump will

join IS or get statue in Mexico.

Dear Chris, I am already ''screwed'' by the moderators and you

threaten me  also with  those ''free screws''. I expected more

support from my former compatriote. BTW I got yesterday an

email from Dertonarm but he deed, alas,  not mentioned those

''free screws'' (aka ''screws for free'') . I mean those ''titanium kind''.

My modesty deed not allow to ask when , if at all, those will be

posted.

Dear Fleib, Assuming that you are not talking in metaphorical sense

can you explain to me how I switched from the string drive to the

string drive? I own Kuzma Stabi Reference with the string drive.

Dear Thuchan, I know that you own ''Ditrich's tonearm'' (aka

Dertonarm's tonearm) so it looks to me very brave from

you to confront him with ''some competition''. However I have

no idea what you mean with ''a Joker''? Besides the issue is about

the tonearms (one would think) but the ''Joker'' apply for the cart

(Palladium). I know that you are very busy man but your ''explantion''

is too short and not very clear.

Dear thuchan, Sorry but I am confused.  I first thought it is about

the tonearms then about Palladium while you are testing ART 1000

and Acoustic Arts. BTW in order to enjoy being the ''third'' I would

like to know who is the  first end the second (grin).

Dear thuchan, I know that you are some kind of ''globetrotter''

probably because you have business ''everywhere''. However one

does not need to travel to Japan in order to get some ''exotic''

Japanese cart : www.jauce.com is all what one needs. BTW as

a person who owns ''everything'' already what about Ikeda 9

the cantileverless cart? I mean which one is the best? There are

many models but hardly any info about any.

Dear Thuchan, Those ''good old days'' are still relevant. I have not

seen many of your contributions in our ''MM thread'' but those

who participate there do know about ''Victor X-1 II'' which is

according to some of us the best ever MM cart. What is obviously

less known is the ''Victor MC1''; direct couple type cartridge.

The first MC cart with coils glued near the stylus on the cantilever

''nose'' wih 4 thin wire along the cantilever to the 4 pin connectors.

Your ART 1000 is direct successor or rather ''heir'' of Victor MC1.

I was stunned to read this by ART 1000 introduction even more

so than by the ART 1000 price (grin). Alas I have not yet seen

pictures which could explain or enlighten how AT solved the

coil problem. Victor used an small silicon plate with etched coils

and (very) thin ''signal wire'' to the 4 pin connector. One of those

is broken on my sample while Axel was not able to solder this

one back. Alas irreparable.

Dear Downunder, For the sceptic who are convinced that no real

improvement in cart technology is made since 80is your statement

must be devasteting: two world best carts in one month time.

Dear Thuchan, Thanks for your instructions. I have seen the

construction meanwhile and fear that an possible retip of the stylus

and/ or cantilever is out of question. Aka: irrepareble . The stylus

must be somehow connected with the coils ; either by glue or some

wire both of which will make this construction very vulnerable. To me

the cantileverless Ikeda 9 looks much more  reliable and simpler.

I hope Dover will be so kind to explain this issue.

Dear Thuchan, Raul introduced all kinds of ''levels'' but with obvious

preference for ''ignorance''-and ''distortion levels''. Your advice to

''go for Palladian or the ART 1000'' caused me to introduce ''financial

level''.  My question ''either Ikeda 9 Rex or R'' was caused by my

''financial level''. I wrote :'' I can't afford both''.

Dear Thuchan,  I have no idea how many carts you own. However

more strange is the fact that you also have no idea how many you

own. I ever got a picture of your ''collection'' but was not able to count

them. So I limited my question to those cantileverless Ikeda's 9.

Your answer was that you use ''some'' for jazz and ''some'' for other

kind of music. Alas ''some'' is not a name so without reference.

This is obvious by complaints like ''someone has stolen my car''.

I do love you but your ''advice'' is worthless.

Dear Thuchan, Who would believe in the ''modesty'' of Rockefellers?

Would you believe that they know ''exactely'' what they own?

Anyway my question is pretty exact. I am very fond of my FR-7fz

and also bought Ikeda 9c . I am in love with both but you know how

we are: very curious. So I am curious about Ikeda 9Rex and 9R.

I can't afford both but, I hope, I can afford one of them. I am not

interested in jazz so your ''job'' should be very easy. Which one

for the classical music?

Dear Fleib, There is an Serbian joke about Croatian artillery.

Captan: ''fire all cannons!''

Soldier: ''you mean both captain?''

By ''all those reviews'' you mentiond there is just one and then

in German. I am sure that your predecesors are from the Balkan.

There are actually four MC carts designed and produced by

our ''old member'' Dertonarm (Der Tonarm in German).

All (grin) are basicaly the same but the Anchor is a kind of an

bargain in comparisson with other Dertonarm's prices. It looks

as if Dertonarm wanted to satisfy poor as well the rich people.

He obviously has his own logic.  The other  are Astron, Aivon and

Palladion. As far as I know only Thuchan owns all of them.

Because I am poor in comparison with Thuchan I own just one,

''curious'' the cheapest one. But my problem is this. Dertonarm

asked me to never mention his name in our forum. I promissed

but could not resist to at least mention ''all his carts''. My guess

based on inside information is that he tuned his carts in accordance with his ''life long love'' for the FR-7 fz kind.

''Those damn details'' he said ''I had no idea that she was prostitute

for 10 years before I married her''.

Well not as dramatic but I also overlooked ''some datails''. All

those cart versions I mentioned are ''limited edition'' so I fear

that the poor among you should forget Archon. While I always

admired Dertonarm and considered him as my first ''genius friend''

I was very susrprised with his ''creativity erruption'' of late. But so

many carts in such a short time may mean that the former series

are sold out. One can't expect from even an ''ordinary person'' not

to increase his prices by his next series. But according to the logic

I ascribed to  Dertonarm (poor versus rich) I expect as his next

''move'' the ''poor man Apolite'' (grin, grin).

BTW one of the comments to Thuchans ''review'' mentioned FR-7f

as his guess regarding Dertonarm ''inspiration''. This person

is ''obviously'' wrong because I was right with my FR-7fz guess

(grin).

Dear Lew, We have this principle not to comment on items we

have never heard. But to quote ''your'' Groucho Marx: ''If you don't like my principles I have other''.

I also admire Dertonarm and even love the guy but it never

occured to me to write a poem for him (grin).

I had no idea that I like the same (kinds?) of distortions like

''some Aussie''. But I do know that he likes MM carts while I

like the MC kinds. Ergo both MM and MC carts have the same

distortions.  What is more I just bought Klyne 7 PX 3.5.5 phono

pre and prefer its lowest amplification (37 dB) in combo with

Denon AU-S1 SUT for all my MC carts. At present with Archon

''the poor man Palladian''. Even more strange is the coincidence

that his and my gear ''must have'' the same distortions. I need

to add that Dertonarm himself  also used SUT's with FR-7 kinds

earlier and probably with his own carts now. So, it seems, we

are in good company.

Well consensus is fine but disputes  are more exciting. Thought  with

exception of the Mexican.

Dear Chris, You missed the point (grin). The question is if we have

the same distortions despite the fact that we have different gear

as well as diferent preferences. BTW there are many Serbians in

Australia so Slivovitz should be available.  But I assume that he

prefer  French brands.

Sancho Panza was a kind of technical servant of Don Quichot.

As was the case in those old times all the merits of an servant

belonged to their masters. So those pre-amps, tonearms, headshells

etc, as pretended inventions of  Raul are actually made (or not)by

his Sancho Panza. Don Quichot himself was not even able to fix

his own blown up midrange speakers. I think that Sancho Panza

discovered that slavery was abandoned and started for him

self. This (should) explain Halcro's wondering about those missing

tonearms  and other promissed components.  

Dear comrade Fleib, What I have seen is much more disturbing then

your mouse. All those ''exotic cantilevers'' among which your

beloved hollow (aka tubed) boron cantilever, are glued in an

small aluminum tube which is then glued in the so called ''joint

pipe'' on which the coils and suspension are fastened. I am sorry

for your aversion against aluminum but this ''inferior material''

seems to be inevitable.

Dear Fleib, It all depends from describing things one way or the

other. Wittgenstein called this ''languge games''. I don't believe

that Japanese invented swords but they are able to make the best

kinds. You claim to have  ''never heard any of Brakemeiers products''

but what would you be able to HEAR from an alignments tool? I think that you have an very limited understanding of ''inovation''. Those are

other things then (new) inventions. In the context of the so called

''intellectual property'' there is diffrence between ''know how'' and

patent application. Ascribing to Brakemeir inventions is not the

same as his own pretention to have invented something or other.

I am not aware that he claimed any invention. But if he owns a

patent for any of his products you can't argue against . Neither can Raul nor even his Sancho Panza. Assumptions are not the same as

evidence.

Sampsa 55, ''Implies'' is logical conclusion, not a conjecture''.

This is correct provided we provided the premisse from which

the conclusion follow. The logic state that a conclusion is

true if the premisse is also true. But logic does not decide about

the ''real truth''. Meanings or sense are about languge such that

we understand what is stated. We need in addition the reference

to the reality . The so called ''correspondence'' between statements

and reality. However ''corespondence'' should not be seen as

''identity relation'' . This was the reason for Frege's curious

invention that statements refer to truth values: the truth OR

the false. Wittgenstein stated: ''for two things to say that they

are identical make no sense and to say that everything is identical

with its self say nothing''.

Dear fleib, ''value judgment'' are not truth functional. That is why

we are allowed to like blonds or brunettes or whatever cart we

like. So what is subjective or objective (aka ''scientific'') is difficult

to practice in our hobby. Anyway one can easilly discriminate

between those who like and dislike Dertonarm. Those who don't

like the guy use terms as ''innovation'', ''patent'' ,''intellectual property''

  etc. in order to denay his merits. There is however  the term 

''craftsmanship'' which we do use in the context of the retips and also

by those ''grandmasters'' like Takeda, Ikeda,  Allearts, etc. by

 whom we don't care if they ever made any  patent application.

As we know or can know Dertonarm designed and produced

Apolite TT, Arche headshell, Uni Din, two tonearms and 4 MC

carts. His most rigurous critic, the Mexican however never

produced anything. What he claims is desigend and made by his

Sanco Panza. Those who are familiar with the Mexican oracle

 know this by the so called ''inside information''. Your ''scietific

approach'' is alas not relevant because you have no experience

with any of Dertonarm's products so you can only guess or

 speculate about them in the best philosophical tradition with

 many ''ifs''. 

Addition, I forget to mention the clear diffrence between the

dramatis personae in my last post. Dertonaram is without any

question an professioanal manufacturer while Fleib and Raul are

amateurs like the most of us.

Dear Fleib, ''the counselor'' which post ''do not help (his) friend''

is public so everyone is entitled to comment. As a ''counsellor''

I don't think that your witness (aka Raul) will make your post

very convincing. Your pretended neutrality regarding Dertonarm

is also not very convincing because of your insinuations that

Dertoarm is a ''moral sociopath''. But more to the point is the

fact that you has nothing to say about my arguments. This is

usual in your reactions to my post. You deed not deny to have

never seen or used any of Dertonarms products. What value

should we put on your comments on his products then? Then

I mentioned ''craftsmanship'' in the context of your interpretation

of intellectual property. I teached intelllectul property for 30

years. I even mentioned ''know how'' which in no way imply

patent as such . You also deed not deny my statement that

Dertonarm is a professional manufacturer  while you and Raul

 are amateurs. I hope for you that you  will be never involved in

whatever lawsuit without an councellor . With your kind of

''argumentation''  you will have no chance.

Dear bluwolf,
For exactly the same reasons as you mentioned Dertonarm left

our forum while I have not seen any post from J. Carr lately.

Those were our , as you name them, '' experts''. Well why

should they if such autodidacts like Raul and Fleib pretend to

know everything better? You should not consider yourself as

an ''lonly wolfe''. The most people are not blind but have some

peculiar opinion about ''politeness'' by which ''critical remarks''

are not done. BTW you also formulated your disatisfaction very

carefull (grin).

Kind regards,

Fleib, Speaking about ''what the court of public opinion is about'' you obviously overlooked the comment of bluewolf. This is usualy the

case with people who are convinced about their  own right. But

 Raul nor you have enything to say about Dertonarms products

because neither of you has any idea about them.  Both of you

are obsessed  by his charakter and don't care about his products. But what has his charakter to do with the sound of his products?

I don't believe that Einstein was an nice person but what has this

to do with his theories?  I very much like Ikeda's FR- 7 series carts

and don't care about his charakter.

Fleib, ''Are you familiar with the term dummkopf?'' Well I am

as familiar with German as with Dutch . The expression ''term''

comes from ''terminology'' in scientific sense and is not equivalent

to what is called ''word''. There is no such word in German btw. It

is a combination of two ''morphems'' by which new words can be

generated: ''dumm'' and ''Kopf''. The grammar of both languages

allows such combinations without restrictions and that is why both

languages are ''unbelievable rich''.  As a Serbian immigrant I got

law degree in Holland and was university teacher for more as 30

years. As far as I know you was assistent in an HIFI shop where

you learned how to a.o.  adjust LP 12.'' Dumm '' (stupid) is used in

the context of ''intelligence'' , more in general as ''learnig capability''

while your and my ''social achivement'' demonstrate this capability.

Amen bluewolf. The problem however is my Serbian upbringing

according to which the revenge is more important than sex. So

I will give Fleib the so called 'Italian kiss'' just before I kill the guy.

Dear Chris, What kind of (former) compatriote are you? I thought

that you got the same upbringing as I deed. The soft Canadian

opproach ( aka ''political correctness'') obviously spolied your

''manhood'' (grin). BTW I get my Sliwowitz in Essen, Germany, in

huge quantities(50 liter each time) so I don't need your ''leftovers''.

Dear Lew, Sometime I regrete that you deed not follow your

Dostojevski inspiration. I am sure that you would become a

great writer. However I always enjoy your prosa despite the

fact that you become medical scientist and questionable HIFI

''analyst''.

The suffix ''DIN'' by UNI-DIN refer to (German Industrial Standard)

which assume 57,5 mm as inner groove limit. Whatever the distance

to the spindle this part of the record is much more difficult to trace then the other radiuses. Because of customers complaints about this fact manufacturers moved this distance to 62 mm. Depending on one's LP collection one will own diffrent ''distance''

 to the spindle by different production years, etc. As I understand Dertonarm's intention he wanted to improve (stylus) tracing in this part of the record radius. Alas my mathematical skills ar similirar to those of bluewolf with whom I obviousy have much in common.  So I have no intention to mess with the involved geometry.

Dear Fleib, Your strategy is not to react to the questions asked but

to persist on  your theoretical assumptions.

You just stated: ''Saying the cart can not be evaluated without the

alignment, is nonsense.'' How about evaluation of any cart without any experience with the cart in question? This is bluewolf's argument which you deed not address. The reason is obvious.

Fleib, Do you read your own post and answers to your post?

12-02-2016: ''but where's is  the perceived value in this

cartridge , some special varnish on the aluminum cantilever?''

12-03-2016: ''So far there is no pefect cart and I doubt if this

is....''  etc.,  with Sampas comment on your complete statement.

12-04-2016;

Halcro : ''Always dangerous to speculate without hearing''

as answer to your post just above Halcro's comment.  

Dear Chris, ''I rank revenge-sex, one level above make-up -sex''.

The involved categories are very different but ''levels'' by comparisons

 are the same. I rank Ikeda 9 cantileverless versions above

Decca kinds. Assumining that you own an phono-pre with

sufficient amplification or use SUT's my advice would be to try

Ikeda. As (former) compatriots we should have the same taste (grin).

Dear Chris, The only linear arm I owned was the (old) Rabco.

At present I use FR-64 S (silver), FR-64S (copper), Ikeda 345

(copper) , Reed 3 P, Triplanar VII and Sumiko 800 with all 6

countrer weights. My phono-pres are Basis Exclusive (gold)

and Klyne PX 3.5 with Denon AU-S1 SUT. All those tonearms

can be used with Ikeda 9 CR. Alas I can't afford Decca Ref.

nor the Palladian (grin). I see that you become my (former) rich

compatriote but I don't see why your Decca should sound better

in whatever tonearm.

Lew was wondering why his post was removed by the moderator

probably because no reason is mentioned. There are however

some ''general rules'' mentioning a.o. ''(it) was abusive

 towards one other member or containing profanity''.

My post was also removed which means that ''it'' was not censored

in advance. I never use ''profanity'' or the so called ''insulting words''

nor does Lew as far as I know. So the probably ''insulted person''

asked removal of my and his post . However I addressed just

 two persons but do not believe that Fleib would do such a thing.

Besides I was very polite ''towards Flieb'' (grin). Who the other

person was can be guessed because we have had such situation

some time ago with real censorship of two or more years duration.

Some members (our Professor?) left the forum because of such

anonymous complaints. Whatever the reason on should complain

in the forum and not by the so called ''authorities''.

analogluvr, Adam smith ''the father'' of the modern economics

stated: ''it is not because of symphaty that we expect to get

our bread and  meat from the baker and butcher but because

of our money''. Certainly not to be expected from an conductor

but Leopold Stokovsky was more explicite. He asked one of

his students to marry him while the girl responded with: ''I am

sorry professor but I don't believe that I can love a man who

is so much older then I''. Stokovski: ''This is not a problem at all my

dear. You see I love calf meat but don't care if calf meat loves me''.

Dear analoguvr, I suppose that nobody in our forum has heard

about the King Nikola from Montenegro. He promissed all kinds

of things to his people which, as usual, were impossible to fulfil.

One of his servants stated: ''My Lord if I would dear to say that

I would say that you are a lier but I don't dear''.

Dear Lew, You must be totally wrong. A virgin or virgine ''attribute''

is  something that is very valueable. I kind of compliment . In particular by the Arabs each of them willing to give at least 6

camels for one. But if you agreed with Gaucho that Doris was not

a virgine this could be seen as an offense by the moderator.

Dear Chris, As far as I know Dertonarm likes blonde. So if you

have some to offer perhaps. But I am sure that he dislikes

camels because he likes to drink. A camel can endure 10

days without drinking. But who would like to be a camel?

Dear solong, There are carts with different threads for the screws

as well those which need nuts in addition. Will you be so kind to

explain to the ''commons'' which size and length are usual as

well what  an resonable price-quality relation is. Thuchan scared us

to death by, uh, implication. If those titanium screws are ''pricy''

for him what about us?

Dear thuchan, I have 20 preadjusted carts/headshells  which can be

exchanged in 5 min. time in my FR-64. This means 40 of those

''pricy'' screws. But one should be thankful for each present so your

''one'' is welcome (grin).

Dear thuchan, ''never ending story''? There are two whole

 months since I bought my last cart. Rauls ''MM'' contra revolution imply

(sorry Flieb) some revolution. You are my much younger twin

(Bond) brother but surely can remember the MC revolution ?

It started with  the first Supex version. This imply (sorry again Fleib)

some kind of consenus among the participants in this revolution.

My Sumiko 800 ( the ''better Breuer'') is designed with 6 counter

weights but the most owners have just one. Back then people

owned just one cart and depending on the cart weight the right

Sumiko weight was provided by the dealers. The idea being to

get each cart as near to the pivot as possible. So carts from 6g

till 22 g could be adjusted with those weights. Collecting carts is

then obvious some kind of (psychological) deviation. The primary

reason probably membership of whatever forum. If some crazy

member got the idea to own TWO carts the rest could not afford

to stay behind. That is how this megalomanic paranoia started.

As an innocent novice I was brainwoshed in such way that

I collected +40 MM carts despite the fact that I always prefered

the MC kind. My modesty does not allow to say how many(grin).

I think that you as my (much) younger brother should have more

respect for your (little) older brother and consequently post to me

at least two of those damn expensive titanium screws. BTW I

had no idea that titanium is more expensive than gold. With

exception of course of those guys by NordOst who suceeded

to turn copper into gold . Qua price that is.

Dear bluewolf, I am not sure if I  follow my own advice but I

certainly do follow Halcro's advice reg. Raul's post. However

he deed not give the same advice reg. Fleib.  Besides I do

enjoy my disputes with Flieb.

Dear Lew, There are people who take what they want while other

prefer to wait till they get something for free. But who would believe

that our only homo universalis would try to use an MC cart with an

MM pre? On the other hand there is no suprise that he dear to

complain about this same fact; he is always complaining about

something or other (grin).

Dear Fleib, By my FR-7f listing I used  Mitch Cotter as argument  or

praise for my item. But as far as I know he also made his own

SUT for his celebrated TT with FR-66 tonearm /FR-7 f cart.

This looks to me not consistent with your statement that he ''made

some great preamps early on''. Do you mean ''preamp'' in the usual

sense and not ''phono-pre''?

Dear Chris, Your bartering skills are worthless. You should know

that our Halcro is ''some Aussie'' and not an Arab. But if you

own some of those Patek Phillip watches or old Porsches I am

sure that you can get his Decca. He obviously has many hobbies

all of them pretty expensive so the ''bartering art'' means to find

the right exchange items. I don't believe that camels will do

regardless of their quantity.