I have a REL stentor III placed in the front left corner. I used an SPL meter to match the volume and have the crossover set at 30Hz. Speakers are 3.7s, and room size is 16x20. |
New owner, 1st post.
I've been enjoying my 3.7s immensely. Always been a Thiel fan, and the 3.7s were near the top of my want list for awhile. Found a pair of Les Paul's a few months ago and just couldn't resist. Best upgrade to my system in quite some time.
Anyways, thanks to jafant for turning me on to this thread. Still combing through it, but looking forward to hearing more from other Thiel owners. The company may not be the same, but its clear from this thread that Jim Thiel's legacy is as strong as ever..
Happy listening,
David |
Now that I've read through this entire thread (!!) I feel it's probably okay for me to chime in a bit more about my 3.7 impressions and my set up. Let me start, however, by saying how great it is to read so many passionate posts about Thiel speakers and accompanying equipment. And as for the OP, I'm convinced you're either an amateur museum curator of Thiel 2.4se speakers or the ghost of Jim Thiel himself, just doing his best to keep the legacy alive. Regardless, I'm glad you reached out to me and clued me in on this great thread.
Regarding my own system, first let me say how surprised I was to see I'm apparently alone in my use of a pure Class A amp to drive my Thiels. Not that I'm opining one type is better than the other - I just find it interesting there aren't more owners out there with similar set ups. My Accuphase A50 is rated at 50/100/200 at 8/4/2 ohms, so it has oodles of current to deal with the 3.7s. Mated with my tube preamp (a Cary SLP-05), I'm in sonic bliss regardless of the situation. My music tastes vary from rock to jazz to classical to country - really, just about everything - and I've never found my system wanting. In terms of describing the sound, I think the best description I can give is how it makes me feel when I listen to something. For example, while reading this thread I was playing Thelonious Monk's "Solo" on vinyl, and I could literally feel him banging on the keys as if he were punching each of them with his fingertips. The music from these speakers just grab you without ever wanting to let go. Like most of you, I've listened to many speakers, but to me these are the first "box" speakers I've heard that literally almost disappear. As someone else pointed out, it's similar to what I experienced when listening to Maggies, but with (IMO) better soundstage and speed. Simply put, it's just a helluvah speaker.
There's a lot of talk about cabling here. I do believe it makes a difference, but to me it's in the fractions and not whole percentages. That being said, I'm not as bold as prof - I run my system fully balanced using cables from Acoustic Zen and Wireworld.
I also use a subwoofer. It may not be necessary for 90% of the music I listen to, but there are occasions when I'm glad it's there. My sub is a REL Stentor III with the crossover set to 32hz. I use REL's speakon cable which is directly connected to my amp's speaker terminals. Is it perfectly seamless? All I can say is nobody has ever been able to tell that it's on, so I'll take that as a sign that it's properly dialed in.
Last thing I'd like to add is how great it would be to hear more about what people are listening to on their Thiels. As much as I love to geek out on the audiophile stuff (and trust me, I do), I also love being turned on to new artists or albums that others have discovered. So when you're talking about your Thiels, please try to throw in a word or two about what you're currently playing. Just my two cents, of course..
Cheers,
David
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Nice! Beck’s Sea Change is on my regular rotation. Haven’t checked out Morning Phase yet. The Suzanne Vega might also need to be added. And I’ll be searching Tidal for those last 4..
If you haven’t already, give Rickie Lee Jones’ Flying Cowboys a try. One of my favorites..
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jafant - just sent you a reply.
Dan - thanks for the note. I use an Accuphase A50 amp, a Cary SLP-05 pre, an Ayre P5xe phono pre, a VPI Aries II with a Shelter cartidge and an Ayre qb9 DSD dac. Kind of an eclectic mix, but it works for me :)
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Unsound,
I've ready many of your insightful posts on this thread, and while I agree with much of what you say, there are some assumptions that I do take some issue with.
First, I never meant to imply that others should use Class A. I merely was making an observation that I was surprised I was the only one. Yes, Class A amps are expensive, and yes, they run very hot. That I get. But not everyone on this thread has those issues. In fact, many here have touted Pass Labs, for example, but none seem to mention their XA amps. I found that curious, that's all.
Second, let's be clear about the Accuphase Class A amps. They are pure class A, and they do not halve when the impedance drops. They double down, all the way to 2 ohms (as I said in my post, mine goes to 200 watts at 2 ohms). I certainly agree those amps that are Class A A/B that halve as you suggest would be problematic with most Thiels. Thankfully my amp is not one of them.
Lastly, I really don't understand your axiom that one should always double the minimum amount of recommended wattage. One could equally suggest that the 100 minimum watt requirement is actually a conservative rating intended to ensure that those with lesser quality amps have enough power, Indeed, in my opinion, quality is truly the key here (which is also exactly what Jim Thiel said in his comments on the 3.7s). Saying you need a minimum of 200 watts when your room size, listening position and personal volume levels say otherwise really doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I just think a quality amp that can handle a 2 ohm load in a medium size room does not need to approach the numbers that you suggest above.
Anyway, that's just my opinion. Bottom line, it's what your own two ears are happy with. As long as we're all enjoying the process and the music, that's all that matters.
Cheers,
David
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Love the suggestions by the way. I've got lots of listening to do!
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Unsound,
No need to apologize! We just have some differing opinions, that’s all.
I don’t agree that 50 watts at 8 ohms (or 200 watts at 2 ohms) "really isn’t much at all." Your 3.6 speakers have a sensitivity rating of 86dbs. My 3.7s are rated at 90dbs. I’m sure you would agree that’s not an insignificant difference. So yes, maybe for you, in your room with your speakers and at your listening levels, 50 watts may be inadequate. My Accuphase has a digital meter, so I’m able to track just how many watts it’s peaking at depending on volume. Last time I checked, I was pushing over 105 dbs while keeping it under 100 watts and seated approximately 10 feet from my speakers. The 3.7s have been tested to drop under 3 ohms, so I know my Accuphase had much more to give. I don’t know what level you like to listen to, but that’s the equivalent sound to a jackhammer, which is enough to require earplugs for most sane people. In other words, in many ways we’re comparing apples to oranges, which may be why we have such different opinions.
I too have been at this for a few decades, and over that time I’ve come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, there’s too much reliance on wattage when determining whether an amp is sufficient enough. It’s certainly a relevant factor, but it isn’t always the most important one.
I know you’re not trying to tell or convince me otherwise. But there are a lot of readers on this sight who are looking for information, and just as your thoughts give great insight, I think there are valid counter opinions to the points you make. My intent was only to share some of them, just as you are. And I definitely agree we’re both likely to be more on the same page than we are not. Just different journeys, I suppose.
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Sorry unsound - for some reason I thought you had the 3.6s, not the 3.5s..
oblgny - just curious what you like better about the 3.5s then the 3.6s?
As for me, I'm 46. I started early when I mowed lawns to get a pair of Adcom separates and Canton speakers. Been hooked ever since..
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Hey corvette, good to hear from you. Nice to see you're putting your Les Pauls to good use, regardless of the room you're in. Sounds like you've made the best of your situation!
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Prof,
Just curious what kind of sub you have and the steps you’ve taken so far to integrate. I too had a tough time, and still tweak my settings/position occasionally. Always interested to see the steps others take when setting up their subs.
I also saw saw that thread and had the same immediate concerns. Any idea on the approximate costs for the replacement parts? |
Prof,
Thanks for the pricing info. I think your timing is spot on given the not-so-pleasant (yet not surprising) news.
I've struggled for years about going down the path of adding some kind of DSP, but I just can't wrap my head around digitizing my analog setup, even if its just a small part of it. Would be interested in hearing your impressions if you decide to take the jump.
Cheers,
David |
Say it ain't so, corvette! I get the reason, but to me, those Les Paul speakers are a work of art. Must be hard to see them go..
As for mine, I've been playing with speaker placement over the past few weeks, and (for now) have determined that I prefer them on the long wall of my listening room. The room is roughly 15 1/2 x 20, and initially I had them on the short wall spread 8' apart with about 2 1/2' from the rear wall and 3 1/2' from the sides. On the long wall, I keep them 8 1/2' apart. 3' from the rear and 5 1/2' from the sides. My listening position is also moved back, from around 9' to closer to 10'.
I've found that the soundstage and imaging have both dramatically improved by this setup. I was concerned about rear wall reflection now that my listening position is up against a wall, so I purchased a combo absorber/diffuser panel to hang behind me. I haven't suffered any high frequency fatigue or noticed any timing issues since I hung the panel, so I guess it's working.
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Thieliste - I’ve heard an Ayre mxr/kxr combo with the 3.7s and it sounded great. I imagine the 20s will be even better.
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Go to hifisharks.com, type in the model, and filter by North America. It will show you what's currently for sale and what's sold over the last few years (covers virtually all the sites except craigslist). You can choose the currency too. Great site for pricing/hunting..
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Sorry, it's hifishark.com. I'm guessing you'll be around $6k US. |
