Thiel Owners
If you do not want to wait for the auction to end, the
Thiel 2.7s
are also listed on US Audiomart for $3495. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649470737-thiel-audio-cs-27-birdseye-maple-10k-msrp/ |
I loved hearing more detail on specifics of upgrades Tom and others? have been working on, very interesting, made me want to pull off one the passive radiators my self and have a look. Wow Prof those 2.7's in birds eye maple are a fantastic deal, I have a question. what others thought of cs6 and where they may differ from the 2.7 & 3.7 that I have and plan to keep forever. I found a pair on ebay link is below. or am I better off grabbing the 2.7 and run them with tube gear which will be different than how I have my existing 2.7 set up. Thank you for your input. Dan https://www.ebay.com/itm/THIEL-CS6-Coherent-Source-3-Way-Speaker-in-Birds-Eye-Maple-Local-Pickup-Onl... |
I see a pair of Thiel 2.7s in gorgeous birds-eye maple, for sale on ebay right now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232972524856 What an absolute bargain for a speaker that beautiful, and of that quality. As a 2.7 owner I can't recommend these beauties highly enough! |
For Thiels I would try a Kinki Studio EX-M1 or the new monos that they are about to release. They are neutral sounding have a good grip of the drivers. Users of Kinki rate them in same region as Pass, Nagra and Goldmund.I have a set of Mirage M7Si. On the specs an average easy speaker. But no - they demand a high quality amp. My budget is not for the mentioned amps. I have tried some of them but the Kinky did is at least as good. Happy listening. Thiel is absolutely value for money. Rgs |
When people asked Vandersteen that his speakers being time phase coherent, what should the listeners expect from his speakers, is there any aspect of his speakers that should be special? What he said surprised me. He said that actually the listeners should not hear anything special at all. He added but over the long term, the listeners will appreciate that the sound is completely natural and life like sounding. |
jon, I agree. And that’s something I’ve been on about often in this thread. My Thiel speakers get out of the way of the sound, from top to bottom, to a degree no other speaker I’ve owned could manage. There’s just an evenness and control that leaves such confidence - no bloating here and there, no drivers sticking out sonically, just perfectly cohesive sound. And I’m totally with you on the notion of price. As speaker prices ran ever further away in to fantasy land, Thiel kept firmly grounded in trying to produce as much great engineering for as reasonable a price as possible. I’ve always deeply respected them for that. Andy, Ditto on your observations about the linearity of the Thiels in terms of positioning in a room. I found the Thiels to be the easiest to position for great sound of any speakers I’ve owned. They just seem to maintain their balance so well. I think the control and lack of bumped up bloat in the bass region helps a lot. It's not necessarily that the Thiels are the "best at everything" sonically. I can think of a few other speakers that have aspects of their presentation I like as much or more. But rather that they are so good in every parameter, and so cohesive, that nothing sticks out and it's easy to just hear the music and musicians, rather than the speakers. |
To me the Thiel sound is the sound that makes me forget about the sound. That's how I felt about the CS2.4. I remember back when the CS2.4 came out, there were a lot of reviews on the speakers (always a good sign for a component), and every review there was always some reference to it being a bit on the "bright" side. I just don't understand where it came from. If anything, I thought the CS2.4 in my system may be a touch warm sounding on certain materials. I remember I used to have a pair of Spendor S8 which were known for their musical and warm sounding. But as soon as I pull the speakers just a bit further from the wall, the sound balance just became completely off. The sound became lean and bright. The CS2.4 on the other hands is very linear in term of its position. As I move them further from the wall, the sound balance changes very linearly and very predictable. |
To me the Thiel sound is the sound that makes me forget about the sound. There's nothing about it that bothers me. I don't understand why. Maybe it's because of the first order phase correct crossover. There definitely aren't any frequency response problems that bother me. Everything I've had in the past had problems that bothered me. Peaky tweeters, flabby bass, overly lean bass. Other, difficult to describe things as well. Whatever they were caused by I don't have any of it with the Thiels. I can sit back and relax. The type of company it was definitely appeals to my personality as well. I'm not a fan of conspicuous consumption or the feeling that I have something special that hardly anybody else can afford. |
andy2 I just replaced the caps in my recently purchased used CS2.4s (sn 1030 & 1031) with the kit sold by Rob Gillum. beetlemania's note about removing the passive radiator is a good one and I would add that I was surprised at how long the screws were. They also require a hex wrench. Putting the passive radiator back in was easier than I thought but the whole process of removing and reinstalling them benefitted from the use of a small drill. When reinstalling, the drill helped in getting the screw to 'grip' the frame of the passive radiator more easily, drawing it to the cabinet as it tightened. I'm right-handed so I held the passive radiator with my left hand while using the drill on the screw at the top of the radiator. The speaker lay prone on a workbench and once the first screw is in, the rest were easy. |
......I think many of us love our Thiel speakers as that entire package, not just the sound but what the speakers represent in terms of their goal and the engineering talent they represent. Prof, your statement is the best summarization of my thinking about Thiel. For this reason I spent a lot of time to find my 3.6s in perfect condition and with the unique aim to keep them forever, a true artwork to me. |
My early plans were influenced by some other threads here regarding aftermarket caps and, more substantially, by Tom Thiel's comments here. But other than, maybe the Mills MRAs, all of the current plans and component choices are from the mind of Tom. I’m getting close to building the new boards. These will include Clarity CSAs replacing all extant caps, including eletrolytics. Tom has a custom voltage for some of these to save space and expense. My coax feed caps will include Multicap RTX bypass at about 1% of main cap capacitance. Resistors will be the Mills; I’m already running these and you can read my report in this thread maybe May, 2018. My XOs were sourced in China and the coils are suspect, so these will be replaced, probably foil in the coax feed. PCB will be replaced with point to point on masonite. Tom has written other details just a few days ago regarding his idea to provide cooling for resistors. |
I think many of us love our Thiel speakers as that entire package, not just the sound but what the speakers represent in terms of their goal and the engineering talent they represent. Well said prof (maybe prof is a real professor :-) There is another manufacturer that I admire although for a different reason. Sonus Faber's sound is probably completely opposite of Thiel but their design has the same vision as Thiel engineering. Their speakers to me are sculpture first then engineering (like Italian cars). I probably will never own one but I always enjoy looking at them. |
andy2, I think I get where you are coming from. When you really look in to what Jim Thiel was doing - the clarity of his design goal, and then the obvious challenges it presented, and then the absolutely clever way he continually improved the design, carving away at the liabilities inherent in trying do make first order T/P coherent speakers, (and not only that - really great engineering all around, including the bass drivers/motors etc) it really adds up to a unique and compelling package. Though I researched and auditioned many other speakers, and of course other speaker manufacturers are trying to up their own game as well, very few presented the same sense of clarity of vision and goal, to reach a place most manufacturers abandoned, which such a singular engineering talent at the helm. I think many of us love our Thiel speakers as that entire package, not just the sound but what the speakers represent in terms of their goal and the engineering talent they represent. |
jay - I suppose folks know that Thiel, with its nuts and bolts x no bullshit approach, started every model with serial number 1, which was mated with number 2 , all matched pairs were odd-low. We kept the design prototypes. My 2.2s are -3 / -4 (final, pre-production.) Early + numbers went to dealers for display. Usually reviewers got numbers in the 100s after the display and pre-buy pipeline was somewhat satisfied. The products were quite thoroughly engineered and required no changes except when production drivers drifted or shifted parameters for some reason, such as different surround, etc. viscosity etc. . . stuff happens. Eventually there might be some refinements which warranted the x.x.1 sub model changes we addressed earlier. Usually the second generation of a product was called the x.2. But one exception was the CS6, which in the early days of Thiel in-house drivers, received some upgrades to the midrange driver and consequent changes to the crossover, and was called the CS6.1. I estimate the date around late '96 and don't know the serial number of the change. Rob would probably know. I'm gradually collecting such information. |
I do not believe that I have seen SN that low for CS 2.4- special speakers indeed. I think it may become a future classic. It is a really unique design. I don't know what others are thinking but there are really nothing about the new speaker designs that interest me. Maybe I would like to listen to some of the Vandersteen's some day but others than that, there are not too much out there that catches my attention. A few years ago, Absolute Sound named a pair of speakers (I'd rather not reveal the name) that costs about $100K as the best speakers in the world. But other than the all aluminum cabinets, the design is more or less a square box with slightly rounded edges to improve diffraction. It uses high order filters and the drivers although were specifically designed in house, I am sure I could obtain similar quality drivers either from Scan Speak, Seas or Accuton. I am a bit disappointed in general in most speaker manufacturers. Most of them are just too derivative. |
Regarding access to XOs for the 2.4, here are Rob Gillum’s instructions to me: “The crossover can be accessed through the passive radiator opening. The base is not removable, as it is screwed, and glued. To access the crossover, you must remove the passive radiator screws and let the passive radiator drop into the cabinet. It can be rotated 90 degrees, and removed while servicing. To re-install the passive radiator, you can place your fingers at the surround, pressing outward to hold in place while re-installing the screws that hold bit in place.” I would add two things, 1) be patient rotating the radiator to get the right angle for removal; 2) you don’t need to be overly paranoid grasping the radiator surrounds as I was initially. Not nearly as delicate as I first imagined, albeit still need to exercise care. |
My 3.6s are 1001 and 1002 I’ve found a few articles online about heat causing problems with the xos I haven’t experienced any problems with my speakers but after learning I have the first gen 3.6s and there were 2 revisions after that I’m thinking Tom’s hot rod upgrade could be a game changer! Tom keep sharing Thiel history and inside info I enjoy reading all your posts!! |
tomthiel Thank You for more history markers, this time, addressing the various series of Thiel Audio's wonderful loudspeakers. I did wonder and was curious how the models received their badges, names over the years. Again, you are important contributor here. I look forward in reading about the next history lesson. Happy Listening! |
