Tubes? Transistors? Which are better?

You know Doug I think maybe it comes down more to taste and what’s important to the individual listener. I remember back when I owned my last ss amp, a Threshold S300. Within 2 years of purchasing that amp, I bought a used pair of McIntosh MC-60's which stock were OK but still notably more palpable in the midrange than the Threshold. The Threshold revealed more of the detail at the frequency extremes and probably even in the midrange but it didn't have the tube magic. My wife heard it as well, right away most notably on vocal recordings. I was using a CJ all tube pre-amp at the time. Then I had some quite extensive mods done to the Macs including new filter caps, wiring, star grounding, changed a few resistor values to improve the highs and the sound improved another few notches notably in the bass and highs. Less classic tube colorations yet no loss of midrange magic. I have listened over the years to many different ss amps and everytime I listen regardless of make or model or what they do well, they have less of a "thereness" or "palpable presence" as Sam Tellig likes to say. This effect may be more or less important to some. I equate it to more real. Whether it be a coloration or rounding of the sound is not important to me. I am less analytical when listening to music and go with what makes the music more involving. Tube amps as well as pre-amps makes music come alive to a greater extent than the detailed sound I hear with ss. I feel quite certain I could live with a ss amp for a while. I further suspect after a period of time if I put a tube amp back in the system I would end up in the same place I am now. Anyone want to lend me their Levinson or Boulder to prove my theory? What is better, vanilla or chocolate?

tubegroover, ewe could be right - for *me*, while i *do* love what tubes do, i *also* can't give up the accuracy of ss at the frequency extremes, or the dynamics of ss. as far as preamps go, there seems to be lotsa tube-gear that really makes no sacrafices in these areas. but tube amps, on the other hand, seem to require large sums of money to make that tube "magic" w/o sacrificing what reasonably-priced solid-state does. so, i guess, if ewe *have* to sacrifice, due to budgetary constraints, then yure right - lower-cost tube amps will be a better solution if ya can manage w/out full-range frequency response & dynamics. as far as someone lending ewe a pair of levinson/boulder/etc, amps - i tink that's going in the wrong direction - if i could *borrow* amps in *that* price-range, i'd be looking at mebbe some manley/aronov/vtl amps... ;~) meantime, as i'm on a budget, i'm happy w/my electrocompaniet amps getting a signal from my melos pre... :>)

On this one, I keep coming back to moderate price tube pre-amps and also moderate price SS amps. I think Doug states the case for this position very well regarding the cost of excellent components-- that's an interesting observation, ie that excellent tube pre-amps can be made inexpensively (but not solid state), and vice versa with amps. I listen to a lot of rhythmic music that is driven by mid-bass, and my big McCormack amp is excellent at this-- yet it also does low volume and low level detail very well, eg better than the Power 2. It's been my experience that tube amps just don't do this part of music as well as SS. But, I've wanted to listen to VTLs 450 also. OTOH, I'm not willing to give up my tube pre-amp either-- it adds richness, body, and an improved sense of naturalness and holographics. Personal taste? that's right on too, and I think I've found were I fit in equipment wise. Cheers. Craig.

hey craig,

why stop at vtl's mb450? why not the mb750's or wotans? ;~)

regards, doug

Garfish, I am not sure what type of sound you are into, but that goes a long way towards knowing what type of tube amp to search out. By the way, did you happen to read the Michael Fremer review of the AR amp? He gets my vote for the biggest(next to J10) fraud in audio. He has never reviewed an Audio Research amp before(a feat in itself), and was surprised by its brightness(lack of tube warmth)??? That's like an automotive reviewer not knowing Porsches have a small back seat. I can never forget his review of a Muse 160 amp. He was on the soapbox delineating the differences between an experienced and a seasoned audio reviewer(category which he included himself in). I do understand your plight in being far from the easy to get to places. Makes auditioning a bear. It's easy to see why the McCormack works for you. They are great products. I don't share most people's fondness for VTL(maybe I am just crazy). I feel that trying to coordinate all those tubes tends to make the music coming out of their amp lack a certain coherence. And the cost involved in retubing... Must be like the ENIAC or UNIVAC computer we have here in Philadelphia(at the University of Pennsylvania). That thing has an absolutely STAGGERING amount of tubes. I once read how many tubes are replaced daily, and I almost fainted. I tend to focus on quality, rather than brute force of sound, and I am sure that plays into my VTL feelings. But in the end, if you have found satisfying sound, that is all that matters. Everything else is irrelevant.