I am in the same historical camp as prof and edgewear... I dumped all my LPs and TTs soon after buying into CD playback. I actually was lucky when in the 1990's a huge pile of Classical LPs had the chance to be mine. ?Did I want them? did I want to go back to playing LPs? I decided yes. And lucky I did as I was also getting into Jazz, and bought over a thousand used Jazz Lps at a time they were dirt cheap.
SO I have no 'nostalgia' abut Lps. They are not easy to play well. CD is way way easier to play well, and all those folks who bought into CD were not stupid, nor sheep. They liked it way better. Period. And that mostly for ease of use and it sounded just as good or better on the equipment they owned.
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One is not better than the other... They are just different sounding.For the op: I say the main two fails: #1 is your phono box. using a built in phono. Second, how LONG has the turntable been in use? IS the cartridge even broken in? (A cartridge is a mechanical device, it need to get used some before making judgments on how it compares to some other device)
Also agree on fail if all you used was one record vs one CD. Female voice is not gonna be pretty on an unbroken-in cartridge.
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Just dawned on me that what this entire thread is saying is WE ALL LISTEN TO THE EQUIPMENT, ALL THE TIME, and the ’music’ is just an excuse to use the equipment.
Otherwise playing music would matter the MOST, and not ’just’ if it exceeds the high bar set by the demanding audience we have here.
For example. I am listening to a Opera, Barber of Seville, Callas Feb16, 1956 Milan. The sound is just like I was listening to a 1950 AM radio broadcast on a radio of the era.
WHO CARES! The singing is great, the atmosphere of the opera house is palpable.
And it has nothing to do with ’it’s a CD’. or It’s a LP.
What it is, is an experience.
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As I also wrote, I was listening to a 1956 opera recording that was ? bootlegged or a radio broadcast. Reissued by one of the little labels that want to keep them available.
The sound was just like listening to a 1950's AM radio. BUT IT DID NOT MATTER! the QUALITY feeling of the music and the singers, the amazing ambience of being in the Milan opera house.I fell seriously sorry for folks who cannot enjoy music unless it seems perfect.
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And in four pages we have the same end result folks have been saying for a long time.
Clearly there are folks firmly in one camp or the other, and some who like both.
I also like both.
As fro the op... and that Denon cartridge. Yes it is true the cart is OK, but inferior to the table, and will not bring out the best in the TT. HOWEVER the cart is probably a sonic match to the op's phono preamp situation. So I say to the op get a better phono preamp (stand alone) first. And then when the cart you have has a thousand hours, buy one suited to the level of quality of the turntable.
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The "Famous Blue Raincoat, Songs of Leonard Cohen" is a very good Jennifer Warnes album, sonically.
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Writing abut he effect of the damping fluid (on ANY arm using such)
I bought a used Kuzma Stabi Stogi S and the arm used damping silicone. The table was hand delivered set up. Well the trough was nearly full. and the sound terrible. bit by bit I removed the fluid down to where the fluid just barely touched to paddles. Perfect! IMO the seller sold it due to the bad sound. all caused by way too much fluid in the dampening trough!!!. Lucky Me.
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With my upgraded sound, I have to say a few CDs I used to really enjoy are now hard to listen to. In particular, last night I was playing some Tori Amos, and realized her voice is buried and distorted under endless layers of ?? And sound worse than when I had a way less revealing system. Annoying, because so many other voices are so spectacular. I blame the producer, who must have thought distorting her voice with echo and reverb and who knows what else... was a good thing. Plus they buried her voice into the mix. I own a few of her LPs and I should re-listen to them to see if it is the same.
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Just wait. The next generation will eschew vinyl (to the horror of their parents) and turn to CDs. In fifteen years CDs will become the rage Lps are now. I will be dead.. but if you are younger, scoop up the dirt cheap CDs.. they will be like money in the bank.
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I have never ever seen a CD that was not round enough to play just fine. (aside from some 'toy' heart shaped or other deliberate oddball shape)If ANYONE has ever had a CD that did not play due to being 'out of round'... I would be amazed and astounded. And Please, tell me the study with scientific controls where they discovered that Japanese CDs had this amazing quality???
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"Less wobbling equals less jitter" I enjoy the way you make up 'facts' that have no basis in any reality except the one in your head. It reads fine. 'gee sure that sounds like a fact'. Sadly it is NOT A FACT.Here IS an article with some ACTUAL INFORMATION.. https://www.stereophile.com/reference/590jitter/index.html Now if you want to say the Japanese disc have better delineation of the data in the pits and lands.. Well yeah, probably. They are more careful in general, and maybe that might lead to less jitter. But the out of round outer edge.. nonsense and is utter rubbish. |
"geezers"...wow. good way to make audiophile friends. The knowledge that YOU TOO will soon enough be an old geezer (or dead) is all the revenge old geezers ever need. Even if you are now twelve years old... (which seems to be the case)
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I would say the thing for anyone is to take stock of what is already owned. At this point, if a person wants to play good quality music, yet owns no LP or CDs, Streaming is the sensible way to go.
THere are also downloads. Folks who like those are another group.
For those who already own Cds or LPs, the respective machines are the way to go.
Trying to jump into CD playback and owning no CDs. Well CDs are dirt cheap right now, and IF you live near stores selling them, Good deals can be had. Where I live it would be easy for me to buy piles of good CDs if I wanted them. Plus Amazon has some good deals of Classical and Jazz CD box sets, which change now and then.
The same in not quite the case for LP, unless you live in an area with at least one good used LP store. Buying used LPs on line sucks. Buying new not a problem, other than the cost. The only way to buy used online is to find a few good sellers you can trust.
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Please do not forget the ever-annoying factor of young people wanting to do things that seem stupid and annoying to their elders.Every generation of youngsters seems to have this genetic disposition to do things the opposite of the previous generation. As for the cheap TT and all. Well it IS about the music right? not high end turntables and exotic cartridges.. OH sorry, for you it IS about the high end turntables and exotic carts...
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I have purchased are dirt cheap prices collections of music which in the same quality on 78's would cost a large fortune. Thank the EU for producing many Jazz artists of the 30 40 50 in Proper Boxes. And then other companies following through with Jazz of the 50's, Generally 8 albums on 4 CDs for $15 or so. Amazing material I would not be able to own otherwise.
As far as the CDs vs Vinyls.. I like them both in different ways. And both sources play just fine with a $500 investment. At least to non audiophiles!!!
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I own the same SACD player as blueranger. I have to say it is really great.
(My analog main TT is a Kuzma Stabi Stogi S with a Dynavector 17D3)
I would say any problem is in the original album mastering. same as on LPs Try to listen to original Laura Nyro LP on a high end system. try. The mastering is terrible. If you have an average system, not nearly as problematic.
One thing having the Marantz SA-10 has given me, now I can really hear the differences way better in CD mastering than any time prior.For example, I used to really enjoy Tori Amos CDs.. Now with the SA-10 I can hear more, how the producers buried her voice in the mix and added some kind of fake quasi reverb to her voice, which just is terrible to put up with. Worse with some more than others of hers. But they all have it. Compare to Ani DiFranco recordings... clear, beautiful and perfect.
The beauty and curse of high end.
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IMO the Garrard Zero 100 was the worst pile of junk ever made. For some mysterious reason Garrard decided to build a turntable with three to five extra parts for each one actually needed. The junky platter alone has TWENTY PARTS.. When all it needed was ONE. and maybe a mat. Insane.
As for records. millions are out there. Why not take advantage of that fact?
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Doing the experiment, It is true. When I dropped my turntable on the CD player. No damage to the CD player. When I dropped my over 50 lb Sony SCD777ES on the turntable. bad.. very bad. The TURNTABLE GOT ABSOLUTELY CRUSHED BY CD (SACD)
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Story is useless. Since it is easy to chose an amp ’good’ or ’bad’, ditto the TT or the CD player. What the designer of the test had in mind when choosing the equipment? Biased before it even began. Making up so called ’unbiased tests’ that are totally biased are all a part of managing your mind. If you need then to ’prove’ you are right? LOL
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Well, I had owned over 8000 Classical LPs... Last time I moved I tossed about 6,000 of them At the time of that move I owned about 100 Classical CDs. Now, almost 12 years later I still own about 1200 Classical LPs (always trying to weed..) and I just bought about a 100 Classical CDs (paid about $2 each) Mainly because I only owned a hundred! and the ones I bought are decent stuff. from my favorite used record store...
So I could claim "I am throwing out LPs and buying CDs". Or, I could say "I own well over a thousand Classical LPs and only 200 Classical CDs."
Both are true, yet each sentence is biased one way or the other.
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