A "body of evidence" is in no way developed by amplifying the number of people suffering the delusion What a ridiculous thing to say: thousands of people suffering some form of mass delusion. What's next? False flag scenarios? Pizzagate morphing into Audiogate? And what exactly is "empirical perception"? That's a concept so fundamentally flawed in premise it should be obvious.
A concept so fundamentally flawed that we do it all the time in our waking lives. Because you think you perceived something it must be manifest in outside world? Duh...yes. Or is it the shadow cast on the wall of the cave by the fire? Where do I even begin with how wrong that assumption is? Please don't. You're giving me a headache. Go back and forth with George. He's more your style. All the best, Nonoise |
And, here, we, go.
kosst thinks he's Merleau-Ponty, in the flesh, to dole it out with a pleb.
You've read up on phenomenology, empiricism, gestalt and association,
levels of perception and the like, and that is how you argue the efficacy of fuses?
You've a troubled mind dear kosst and when getting no where in an argument on fuses, you resort to this? Spare me your brilliance and expertise in a field apart from audio. Are you the kind of person when someone says "it's the truth", respond with something lame like, what is truth, really?
All the best,
Nonoise |
No, it does not behoove anyone to do any such thing. To behoove is to state that it is the responsibility or duty for a person to do something. That is flat out ridiculous on it's face. No one owes you anything save for relating what they hear(d).
If you doubt it, it is your responsibility to test it for yourself, which you consistently refuse to do.
All the best,
Nonoise |
^Well, I thought I made it clear that I'm not demanding anything Then why state that it behooves someone to do so? Hearing a difference when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed falls into the category of impossible, by my definition Good for you. We think otherwise. And, by your own statements, I don't need to submit any proof what-so-ever that it is in fact impossible Goose and gander. If you really believe that, then stop saying we have a duty to. Just pointing out that one should be honest *with themselves* That's flat out insulting and it's about time you stop with this moral high ground of yours, implying we're not being honest with ourselves. It's so passive-aggressive and possibly, a projection on your part. All the best, Nonoise |
@gdhal
A troll is a troll is a troll.
I don't think, for a moment, that you over did things back in the days but just enjoy talking in circles, contradicting yourself, raising trolling to an art form.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It's deja vu all over again. A specialty of trolls. |
I've highly recommended Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob, however, Amy > CSNY > Amy > CSNY is acceptable. That would make as much sense as Bob > Carol > Ted > Alice. Just another way to keep on trollin' mama. All the best, Nonoise |
I thought trolls were self aware. My bad.
Yes, the U.S is a great place to visit. I've met people from other countries that love the U.S., during any season.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@nonoise
No, no, no, son. When you go out into the world and make stupid statements with no basis in reality, it's not up to the world to prove a negative. It's up to the claimant to prove the positive. That's how it works in science and the law. Your inverted thinking and shirking of your responsibility is repugnant. If your claim is you're experiencing a purely psychological phenomenon, say so and stick to it. If there's some science behind it, it's on you to prove it, and until you do, the doubters are on solid ground questioning you, your observations, and your honesty. You're wrapped way too tightly costco. Empirically experienced events are a part of science. I'm not asking anyone to prove anything as I'm content to know what I hear. It's only those who carp on about it that need to try it for themselves, like you. Otherwise, how will you truly know? Falling back on a manual just won't cut it. Nor does hiding behind an engineer's skirt since we've all discovered that there are engineers who've heard improvements with fuses but can't explain it. "Science and Law". Are you some kind of magistrate? A leading authority? Be still my beating heart. To claim it's a purely psychological phenomenon doesn't help your position. You're just throwing words around, unless you're saying you can feel or sense it from afar. You weren't here when I installed the fuses, where you? Do you do remote viewing? As for the doubters, the ground is getting shakier and shakier the longer this thread continues. It's going to be fun to see them go to earth once they hear it for themselves. Or should I say, if they ever try it. Most won't because this is their oxygen. All the best, Nonoise |
You’ve stooped to a new low. Name calling? You, of all people, are being quite hypocritical. Firstly, to say someone needs to calm down (which is what "wrapped too tightly" implies) is not name calling. You’re jumping at the first opportunity to strike back. Calm down. Secondly, you’ve implied that we who hear differences in fuses are delusional, that we hear things, that we’re dishonest with ourselves, that our intent is to mislead, etc. Look in the mirror and think twice about casting that stone. Oh, and I was informed that I had a post removed, probably because it was a bit too snarky. To be honest, I can’t locate it. It isn’t all one sided so as to develop a persecution complex. All the best, Nonoise |
|
kosst,
This thread, let alone this site, is nowhere near a court of law. To conflate the two is silly, on it's face. It's apples and lobsters, and about as relevant that the two are.
You still present yourself as unassailable, not to be countered or contested, as if you hold all the cards. I sincerely hope you take better care in civil court and not think that how and what you say here can carry the day there.
And George, whatever...
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
That would be true. However, I'm referring to your addressing kosst_amojan as costco. Please refer to your 04-27-2018 5:19pm post. That was in jest, gdhal, as to not be so serious, high and mighty. You're really reaching now, aren't you? |
kosst, The way things are done in a civilized conversation don't necessitate having to prove what is empirically perceived. I see, hear, touch, taste and smell things all day long and need no one to tell me what is real or imagined. Isn't that was phenomenology is about? "an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience."
That sounds a lot like what we do when we hear the differences that a fuse can make. As for a "body of evidence", how about the many tens of thousands who've tried it, hear it, and enjoy it? How do you discount that? Do the marketing skills you have tell you they are all deceived? Your example of a divine entity being believed in for two, opposing reasons, one where it represents those who believe in fuses for no good reason, and to be discounted, and the other, where the body of evidence amounts to a domino theory which you say represents your side and is to be believed in is a head scratcher. One takes a leap of faith, the other can be directly observed, over and over, by anyone who cares to try. All the best, Nonoise |
You're lucky. I had Soupy Sales in my youth. I later graduated to Monty Python when they first started showing here, stateside. No one else could fill the gap. My mother thought (knew) it would make me crazy.
🤪
All the best,
Nonoise |
Odysseus should have had it so easy. He could have done the whole thing and got home to Penelope earlier. |
@keithahughes,
Yes, it was Geoff who informed us. Knowing that, I used it to support my belief of a "base of evidence".
And what an affliction Soupy was. Black Fang, White Tooth, and that squirrel puppet at the window, along with the unusual walk ins, especially when they had that nude lady dancing for him off camera, which he was unprepared for.
When he saw the naked lady, he glanced over at the monitor and saw the same feed and thought his career was over. It turned out that what the world saw was a different feed from the control room.
All the best,
Nonoise |
as in being honest with yourself. Oh, but he is gdhal, he is. |
"A fuse is nothing more than a short length of wire designed to melt and separate in the event of excessive current. Fuses are always connected in series with the component(s) to be protected from overcurrent, so that when the fuse blows (opens) it will open the entire circuit and stop current through the component(s). "
A fuse is not just there to melt and do nothing more. It’s part of the current flow to components downstream. Using a fuse and it’s holder just makes it easier to replace but it doesn’t mean that it has no effect on anything afterwards.
To keep stating otherwise is getting really old.
All the best,
Nonoise |
And so do the components downstream from the fuse. I looked that up.
Some of them are directional and yet...... |
|
No George, that was not the point.
Yes, the rectifier (tubes or diodes or what have you) take the AC current and passes it on as DC, blah, blah, blah, but it can only process what it's given, and a better fuse imparts a cleaner sound impacting characteristic of it's own to the rectifier.
That was the point.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@kosst_amojan,
No, it didn't go WAY over my head (though it does) but the fact remains, fuses sound better one way compared to the other. Plenty here hear the difference as I did with three different brands.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Really you should listen to yourself, then scrunch it up and throw it in the bin, honestly. I would ask you for a better explanation but you’d come back with delusions, expectation bias, etc., and all the tired tripe you have so far. By the way, thanks for not linking your juvenile slideshow.👍 All the best, Nonoise |
You're a sick man, George, but there's a persistence about you that can be endearing.
Kosst, I don't do measurements, I listen.
By the way, I'm still waiting for you to try a fuse, hear the difference for yourself, get over yourself, and then get busy putting your superior know how to some good use figuring out why.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Kosst,
Dream on spendthrift. Do what I did and blow $20-$30 on a Brimar fuse and you'll hear the difference.
Geez! I just noticed, you don't believe in better power cords either? As readily available better power cords are, are you telling me that you haven't tried one because you know better?
All the best,
Nonoise |
If I wanted to know the difference that bad I'd just jump the fuse block. Didn't you see the link to where Paul McGowan and a friend designed a wonderful sounding amp only to have it suck when they incorporated the fuse? It completely messed with the sound. Even gold plating the holder didn't help much. They didn't try aftermarket fuses back then (it was in the 80's). It never sounded as good once the fuse was added. The fuse is the bottleneck. Some amp designers figured it out way before this discussion came along. All the best, Nonoise |
kosst,
What can I say to someone who knows so much, that he cannot learn any more? The air must be rare up there.
All the best,
Nonoise |
kosst,
Yeah, right. All that great gear out there so horribly designed, and you can do so much better. An amp of yours couldn't possibly benefit from a better fuse. But then, we'll never know, will we?
Looking forward to seeing your line of gear at the next audio show. Will you be on some of the panels denouncing everyone who disagrees with you like you do on practically every thread here? It would be worth the price of admission.
All the best,
Nonoise
|
It's not what you say, but what you do Practice what you preach George. I don't need a course in electronics, ohms and other laws (as you like to call them) to negate the need to experiment. I don't require a safety blanket, or mommy's permission. Unlike you, I trust my ears. All the best, Nonoise |
kosst,
How you come to your conclusions will always elude me. I don't idolize engineers so is that a bit of projection on your part? You do it so everyone else must?
Also, I could care less how adept you and George are at deciphering circuits. That is not a prerequisite to knowing what sounds good when listening.
You always resort to personal attacks on credibility so it tells me you probably had lots of explaining to do when growing up. You had to justify costs, actions, and beliefs because you had to answer to someone you feared. Don't think for a moment it will work on me.
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
kosst,
First, that was the nicest way to say something.
Second, I do describe what I hear in the ways you recommend. Just read my take on the various fuses I've tried. The funny thing is others have derided such descriptions as over the top and unreal since how can a fuse be responsible......blah, blah, blah.
No winning for the losing, as they say. But as for technical tweaks, replacing a fuse or swapping a linear power supply board for a SMPS board is no biggie, as long as it's made for the unit and the leads match.
You don't know much about me it seems. I think it's best that way.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Kosst,
I do see where you're coming from. Not having the necessary gear to help explain why you're hearing what you're hearing can be frustrating.
What you can extract from your adjustments makes sense but so does changing the fuse, for me. I'm talking a lower noise floor, better punch and drive, increased extension, etc. But not being technically inclined, I just forego the measurements and simply reap my rewards (which is not always the case).🤔 It took three different brands of fuses before I got what I wanted out of them. Unless I win the lottery, I'm done with fuses.
To be honest, I don't know if what I describe can be measured but it certainly can be heard. Each attribute I described can be considered small, ion their own, but add all of them up and it can be a big improvement, insofar as it greatly increases the appreciation factor.
As for George, he's not the best person to have on your side. He tends to dog pile on after having someone else go first. He can hold you back.
All the best,
Nonoise |
kosst,
I hear you. I can't afford to buy any of the more expensive fuses either, but then, I can't convert any amp to full dual mono either. Seems like $30 was the right amount to spend for me.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Oops! My bad. It must be that I got my integrated, SACD player and speakers from Music Direct. 🙃
It left a good enough impression.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Obviously, modded gear would benefit similarly from aftermarket fuses. Indeed. It would be like keeping bald tires on your car after souping up the engine. |
Carry on with your mischaracterizations, conflating of terms, and misunderstandings.... But kosst, that is precisely what you just did when you said: By definition, empirical measurements require the use of a commonly accepted scale of some weight or measure. Therefore, no listening test can be empirical. Without some empirical scale, the "listening measurement" (a true oxy-moron) is purely subjective You don't get to rewrite or revise the meaning of words to suit your purposes. That's sophistry 101. We know better. Stop talking down to us. You were doing fine there, for awhile. All the best, Nonoise |
kosst,
There you go again, conflating two very different forms of perception.
As Milania would ask of you, Be Best.
All the best,
Nonoise |
There's no difference at all. Explain how there's a difference. Really? You want all of us to go that deep into the weeds to see who can construct the better argument over a faith based perception vs. an empirical one, and have that be the underlying explanation or refutation of aftermarket fuses? Don't you have better things to do like build that dual mono amp so you needn't try a different fuse? All the best, Nonoise |
So, this isn't about fuses at all, is it?
You just love to argue.
Got it. 👍
|
@auxinput,
Way ahead of you on that one. While I like Geoff’s take on lots of things, his humor, and point of view, he does like to provoke, prod and needle, even when people agree with him or don’t exactly line up with him while still being on the same side.
There’s been may times when I felt like asking: why the hell did you just say that? But he is what he is as I am what I am (with all due apologies to Popeye). 🤔
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
No digs needed @jrpnde. Glad to have you aboard. It wasn't until just half way through your post that I thought you were leaning towards accepting aftermarket fuses, but there's still time. 😄
Sure, it can have burn in, like a cable and other components that benefit from it and yes, it's purpose is for protection, but like you said, if it sounds better without it, why couldn't a fuse that's made to a higher standard than the cheaply made one sound better? It would most certainly conduct better and vibrate less, which would impart an improvement.
All the best,
Nonoise |
|
left one item off the plate in this entire dialog: Why do expensive "audiophile" replacement fuses, when used with any component anywhere, do anything other than act as a fuse? Oh, but it has been pointed out. Repeatedly. You just prefer to ignore it when posted and ask in a different way. Repeatedly. But what you ask made for a nice seque to your rant. 👍 All the best, Nonoise |
@geoffkait It was Brent Jessee (of audiotues.com) who told me the IAEA banned the use of certain metals used in NOS tubes for fear of who could get their hands on them for nefarious purposes (like building illicit nukes). After that, they never sounded the same, no matter how exacting they made them. All the best, Nonoise |
@geoffkait
It was more of a short generalization when he told me after I asked him why NOS were better. I would assume that way back then, simply banning certain metals was the way to go. There were no announcements, just the restrictions that went over the public's head, unless you were in the business of using said metals. Brent, being in the business, most likely came across the info like anyone else with the resources and desire to know since it affected him.
As for the public sources, there was the occasional book in the library that had that info on making your own bomb but it was nothing like today, with the internet. You had to seriously source the material.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Looks like Almarg sums up the point eloquently
But it was, in the end, an assumption. Most engineers would consider a fuse to be nothing more than a protection device, since that's it's intended purpose. It turns out though, that it has ramifications beyond it's intended purpose, and there are those who've bothered to see for themselves if there's any benefit to changing the fuse for a better one, as opposed to those who simply refuse to try. All we're doing here is going in circles. All the best, Nonoise |
@geoffkait
😉😁
Kosst,
I'm way the hell on the other side of this continent. Just do yourself a favor, try a fuse and trust your own ears to see for yourself. You don't need anyone else, unless you don't trust your own hearing.
All the best,
Nonoise |
kosst, Can I be so bold as to offer some advice? Don't do that. Also, if you're in Chicago, or near enough, thecableco.com is located there. Fuses, power cords, speaker cables, etc. are all there for you to try. All the best, Nonoise |
@trelja
Same here. Thanks for that fresh breath of air.
👍👍👍 |
I've tried three different brands and they all had their own sonic signature and each brand sounded better in one direction over the other.
There was a money back guarantee on all brands and all it cost was the price of shipping if I didn't keep them. I've returned things before that didn't impress me and they were more of a hassle to ship than a few fuses. They work, and if you haven't tried them, your opinion of them is not objective.
All the best,
Nonoise |
