2. amps-preamps
  3. 1241027845

What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire

Preface: this is regarding 2 channel analogue SQ.
OK. I know it's very early in the comparison process, and I've "only" critically listened for 2-3 hours. But whereas listening to speakers has shown clear differences (to a point), and the move up the B&W ladder from 9NTs to N803s was SIGNIFICANT, I'm at a loss on the amp/preamp. The jump from my old $4k Pioneer flagship HT rcvr to the Sunfire TGA5200 was very significant. Less significant but noticeable was the jump from the Pio as preamp to the Sunfire TGP5 as pre. I then read a lot about how a good 2 channel pre would crush an HT pre/pro. So I got the Jeff Rowland Capri. Have listened for quite some time and struggled mightily to justify the Capri, but I just don't hear ANY major improvement. Maybe some VERY subtle things, but I can't even be sure of that. I also read that a good 2 channel amp would crush a multi-channel amp. So I just picked up the Nuforce ref 9SEv2, and I've gone back and forth with the TGA5200, unscientifically, but again, I don't hear any major difference, whether through the Capri or the Sunfire TGP5. Am I just missing "golden ears" and reached the audio equivalent of the Peter Principal" (rising to my level of incompetence)? Is the Sunfire stuff just that good? Is the old claim that all good amps/preamps should sound similar true? It just strikes me as odd that so many people on these audio boards hear huge differences and I don't. What's wrong?
jeffkad
jeffkad OP
195 posts
 
Al, Tvad: I think that is exactly what happened with that Wynton Marsalis cut I mentioned earlier today. That was the first time I heard a real difference. As I said in that post though, the difference was in favor of the Sunfire pair, not the supposedly better and more expensive JRDG Capri/Nuforce pair. That's the confusing part.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
...the difference was in favor of the Sunfire pair, not
the supposedly better and more expensive JRDG Capri/Nuforce pair. That's
the confusing part.
Jeffkad (Threads | Answers)

You're confusion is self induced, aided by outside influences.

You like the Sunfire pairing. You say it sounds more real. That's the goal.

What's best is what YOU think is best. Trust yourself.

Or, if you're determined to get to the root cause of why you don't hear what
you believe you should hear, then seek someone with more experience than
yourself who will sit with you and train you how to listen. It's very difficult to
learn it from a book or by reading these posts, although it seems from your
posts that you're listening for the right cues.
tholt
545 posts
 
Your point regarding "knowing what to listen for" is an interesting one, and one that was brought up by a reviewer friend of mine. Perhaps I need that education, but what bothers me about that is, why do I need to "learn" to notice what I "should" be noticing? I can't help but wonder why it isn't more obvious. Do I really have to work THAT hard to "learn" the difference? Is there no gear that makes it obvious? I can't believe that all the posters here on agon had to learn how to hear. Just my opinion.
Jeffkad (Threads | Answers)
I've been following this thread, and it's morphed into something broader and of more interest (to me at least) then the original question, although it hinted at it. The above comment by the OP I 100% relate to, and Tvad's response I'm learning more and more is true. I'm fairly new to this hobby, and it frustrates me that differences are almost always MUCH subtler then one would reasonably expect them to be, esp with the amount of money things cost and the adjectives you read from reviewers. And judging from the OP's comment, and my own common sense, I'm not alone. I don't have any experienced audiophiles around me -- I'm braving this on my own and have the dwindling funds to prove it -- so how would I learn the 'art of listening'? Not to take away from this thread, but another question that has to be asked is, every audiophile was once a beginner with "green" ears -- once you realized that most differences between components was pretty small, what pressed you to continue on and not think that this hobby was just a bunch of hype? This is an honest question out of curiosity, please don't read into it or take offense (or become disrespectful) in your answer.

BTW, cheers to all of you experienced and apparently intelligent and wise posters. I learn something new from these forums every day. To that end, it's been very rewarding.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Simple things to consider...

Does the music sound live? Not hyped up, but live? Each instrument cnd person clearly defined? Does the image have three dimensionality...does it have depth as well as width?

Can you discern the strings vibrating on a stand-up bass, or are the notes mushy?

Sometimes a new component or cable is introduced into a system, and things seem louder even though the volume control is at the same setting. Generally, this is because of a lower noise floor. As a result, the music starts to sound more "live". This is a good thing, and it's an earmark of a better component. Better components have better power supplies, and as these components are introduced, the noise floor continues to drop.
jimjoyce25
215 posts
 
Tholt: The differences between great components and mediocre components are not subtle. If the difference is subtle, the component is not worth the money. There is something else that will provide a real difference (and probably for less money).

Don't buy in to the view that only a "wise, experienced audiophile" can hear the differences between components. Such words are spoken by people who have paid too much for gear that they don't even know is inferior. Many of the revered names in audio don't deserve the reputation they have.

If the difference is important and worth paying for, your wife or girlfriend will be able to hear it immediately. Using her as the reference point will save you a lot of money.

OTOH, deferring to the views of people on this board will usually cost you a lot of money, while providing you little or no benefit.

If the difference is not immediately clear, the component is not worth the money.
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