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What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire

Preface: this is regarding 2 channel analogue SQ.
OK. I know it's very early in the comparison process, and I've "only" critically listened for 2-3 hours. But whereas listening to speakers has shown clear differences (to a point), and the move up the B&W ladder from 9NTs to N803s was SIGNIFICANT, I'm at a loss on the amp/preamp. The jump from my old $4k Pioneer flagship HT rcvr to the Sunfire TGA5200 was very significant. Less significant but noticeable was the jump from the Pio as preamp to the Sunfire TGP5 as pre. I then read a lot about how a good 2 channel pre would crush an HT pre/pro. So I got the Jeff Rowland Capri. Have listened for quite some time and struggled mightily to justify the Capri, but I just don't hear ANY major improvement. Maybe some VERY subtle things, but I can't even be sure of that. I also read that a good 2 channel amp would crush a multi-channel amp. So I just picked up the Nuforce ref 9SEv2, and I've gone back and forth with the TGA5200, unscientifically, but again, I don't hear any major difference, whether through the Capri or the Sunfire TGP5. Am I just missing "golden ears" and reached the audio equivalent of the Peter Principal" (rising to my level of incompetence)? Is the Sunfire stuff just that good? Is the old claim that all good amps/preamps should sound similar true? It just strikes me as odd that so many people on these audio boards hear huge differences and I don't. What's wrong?
jeffkad

Showing 13 responses by tvad

tvad
9,467 posts
 
Don't fret. If you can't hear a difference, then there's no reason to keep the more
expensive gear. Be happy with the Sunfire components and sell the other stuff.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
My experience has taught me that the NuForce 9SE V2 amps really like tube preamps.
Yoby (Threads | Answers)
Please explain.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Yoby, I realize I incorrectly read your post. I thought your wrote, "NuForce 9SE V2 amps [are] really like tube amps", hence my question.

Thanks for your explanation.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Jeffkad, you appear to be torturing yourself with this exercise.

You like the sound of the Sunfire gear. All is good.

Let it go, bud.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
I have been following all along, and frankly you're repeated description of not
being able to discern differences in gear comes across as frustration
bordering on torture. At least it reads that way to me.

Clearly, I have a barrier comprehending the positive nature of your journey.

No problem. I appreciate the clarification.

PS...sometimes differences aren't heard because we don't know what to
listen for. Once we're educated about what to hear, and after we've heard
what we've been taught to hear, then subsequent differences among
components become more obvious. At least this has been my learning
experience.

Differences that once were "inaudible" suddenly become more
pronounced, and in some listeners result in those "jaw dropping", A-Ha!
moments. Audiophiles' "Wow!" differences are often laypersons' "Huh?"
differences...if that makes any sense.

Have fun!
tvad
9,467 posts
 
why do I need to "learn" to notice what I
"should" be noticing? I can't help but wonder why it isn't more
obvious.
Jeffkad (Threads | Answers)

IMO, differences are often not obvious, and it takes someone listening along
with you to point out the differences. Once you hear and recognize them,
then future observations become easier and more pronounced.

However, many posters here discerned differences on their own and right
away, but I'll bet listening with someone more experienced along the way
highlighted other more subtle aspects that became more important as the
listener moved up the equipment food chain.

BTW, there's a certain benefit to enjoying what you have and not hearing
obvious differences among components. I guarantee you once you start
hearing subtleties, your bank account is going to shrink. Careful what you
wish for.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
... the better the quality of the source material that is used, the easier and faster the process will be.

Regards,
-- Al
Almarg (Answers)

Unquestionably true.

Acoustic instruments (string bass, piano, trumpet, sax, etc) and voices. Simply recorded with limited processing.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
...the difference was in favor of the Sunfire pair, not
the supposedly better and more expensive JRDG Capri/Nuforce pair. That's
the confusing part.
Jeffkad (Threads | Answers)

You're confusion is self induced, aided by outside influences.

You like the Sunfire pairing. You say it sounds more real. That's the goal.

What's best is what YOU think is best. Trust yourself.

Or, if you're determined to get to the root cause of why you don't hear what
you believe you should hear, then seek someone with more experience than
yourself who will sit with you and train you how to listen. It's very difficult to
learn it from a book or by reading these posts, although it seems from your
posts that you're listening for the right cues.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Simple things to consider...

Does the music sound live? Not hyped up, but live? Each instrument cnd person clearly defined? Does the image have three dimensionality...does it have depth as well as width?

Can you discern the strings vibrating on a stand-up bass, or are the notes mushy?

Sometimes a new component or cable is introduced into a system, and things seem louder even though the volume control is at the same setting. Generally, this is because of a lower noise floor. As a result, the music starts to sound more "live". This is a good thing, and it's an earmark of a better component. Better components have better power supplies, and as these components are introduced, the noise floor continues to drop.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
If the difference is not immediately clear, the component
is not worth the money.
Jimjoyce25 (Threads | Answers)

Jim, I absolutely agree.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Jeffkad, I truly hope I haven't bullied you, although I admit cajoling you a little.

I do believe based on your shared exprience here that the Sunfire equipment seems to be a good match for you.

Since you've expressed some desire to understand why you aren't hearing what you believe you should be hearing, I have offered some suggestions. If my suggestions have in any way come across as elitist or preachy, then I apologize for not communicating the ideas more effectively. Sometimes, it's difficult to have a discussion on a written page rather than face to face. Meanings are sometimes misconstrued.

Have fun.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
05-20-09: Jeffkad
...is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise
for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and
bloom...

Define liquidity and bloom, and explain what they mean to you.

The Pass amps I own (XA-.5 series) have a grain-free clarity that's reminiscent
of tube amps I have owned (VAC and Atma-Sphere). When I auditioned the
NuForce Ref9V2 SE, I thought they also possessed a similar quality.

If by bloom you mean emphasized mids, or a 3D presentation that projects the
mids into the room, then I have not heard a solid state amp that qualifies.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
The Ref 9s just didn't have what I need in a
component - that ability to emotionally connect me to the music to recreate
reality in my living room. Some components just have that - well, for want of a
better word - magic.
Oshag (Answers)

Do the Mark Levinson No 27 amps have the magic for you, or have you
replaced them since December 2008? And, what speakers are you driving with
them?

BTW, I agree about the lack of emotional connectivity with the NuForce REF9 V2
SE amps. They sound too sterile for my taste. However, they do have a midrange
purity that I associate with tubes.
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