While a 1st-order crossover does require fewer parts (perhaps just a single capacitor and resistor) than a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th-order, a loudspeaker with a 1st-order x/o does not necessarily have a simple one. Thiels are often mentioned (as they are above), but they actually have very complicated crossovers. The reason is, their crossovers perform far more than mere 1st-order filtering. There are a great number of parts used to tailor, manage, and compensate for the characteristics of the drivers used in Thiel loudspeakers. Just look at a schematic for one! On the other hand, the Eminent Technology LFT-8b, which also employs 1st-order filters (one at 180Hz, another at 10kHz), contains only a few extra parts for driver compensation. That speaker’s x/o schematic is posted on the ET website. |
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I'll answer that in 13 years. |
12 1/2 years between the last post and the one just before it! Is that a record?
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Contrast audio loudspeakers (Ukraine). In construction uses scheme with only one capacitor. Need to hear but you can imagine if you read reviews. Own components from naturall materials and more than 20-ty years of experience in designed and manufacturing. https://www.facebook.com/contrastAudioUkraine/ |
MaxxHornHaven't heard them personally though. |
Martin Logan CLS. Thiel. Vandersteen. GMA.
Also Single driver designs like Jordan. |
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Don't forget "active" speakers, which separate high and low frequencies back at the amp. The speaker's crossover is bypassed entirely. |
To me, the more crossover parts a particular speaker utilizes equates to more mistakes made by the designer in the speakers conceptual design stages. Hence speakers with lots of parts were not properly designed to begin with. The only way to do a minimal x-over parts product is to do ALL the math prior to building it. Look into the Green Mountain Audio designs. |
I'd like to clarify Jond's comment:
It is my understanding that the Reference 3a de Capo uses 1 element (high pass) to protect the tweeter. As far as I know, this is the simplest x-over used on a multi-driver system. Most 1st order x-over systems use multiple elements.
However, to your original post: I'm not so sure that this will make the speaker sound dynamic (my de Capo's aren't spectacular in this respect). OTOH the resultant flat impedance curve is definitely tube amp friendly - especially for SETs. Also, phase shift is minimized and many people believe that to be beneficial. |
Aural Ersatz TAD-803 with the single-driver, no-load tweeter. Simplicity, naturalness, and great sound. They're worth checking out. I definitely hear a difference in coherency and immediacy compared to speakers with even simple crossovers... |
B&W now use first order crossovers in the current "800" series 801 802 803 804 805 |
Full-range, single driver, horn speakers have no crossovers, but usually have sonic limitations at the frequency extremes (you can only ask a single driver to do so much...). Very large panel planars and electrostatics (such as the big Sound Labs) also have no crossovers, unless they are combined with a dynamic sub-woofer in a hybrid design.
Phase-and-time aligned speakers (such as Vandersteen) use first-order crossovers, which are less complex in design that higher-order crossovers. First-order crossovers do not, however, guarantee better sound reproduction that high-order crossovers -- it's the total design execution that's ultimately responsible for the audio quality. |
Dennis Had's Soliloquy SM2A3 uses a minimalist crossover design specifically intended for use with low powered SET amps (it's 11 ohms and comes with a caution to not exceed use with amps of greater than 25 watts). At the same time he designed the Soliloquy 5.0 with identical drivers, cabinetry size, etc but with a different crossover for more powerful amps. |
(the simplest type, except for no crossover)
2.3's have about 23 components for each speaker, but "simple" is subjective. :)
Quad ESL's
"that apparantly used a very simple, minimalist, first order crossover design...a resistor or capasitor or something" The Extrema has the simple crossover you speak of, the EA 1 has I think 6-7 components per speaker but its been 8 years so I'm not sure anymore. |
Reference 3A speakers have no crossovers and are very efficient, perfect for SET's and other low power amps. |
Zu Definitions, Druids and Tone speakers use no crossover and are extremely efficient. |
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I think one of Thiel's core design principles is 1st order crossovers (the simplest type, except for no crossover). I don't kmnow the specifics of the 2.3, though. |
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