Thanks G, looking forward to your observations.
Which Class D Amplifier? PS Audio, Ghent, Nord, Merrill or other???
I’m looking for a new amp & want Class D.
I’ve seen various brands mentioned, such as PS Audio, Ghent, Nord, Merrel to name a few, but I’ve not heard any of them.
Which company is producing the best sounding Class D?
Which models should I be looking to demo?
Thanks
I’ve seen various brands mentioned, such as PS Audio, Ghent, Nord, Merrel to name a few, but I’ve not heard any of them.
Which company is producing the best sounding Class D?
Which models should I be looking to demo?
Thanks
416 responses Add your response
It looks like Bruno Putzeys new company, Purifi, has more interests than just class D amps: https://www.purifi-audio.com/index.php Tim |
Tim, The input stage on an amp is not an output stage. Output stages have to drive a speaker, so you would not want current limiting. The input stage is just an op amp. Most integrated circuit op amps cannot drive over 100ma. They are using a discrete op amp that can drive 250ma. In fact, the circuit will never need much current at all. As all that will come out of it is a few volts and driving maybe 5K load. They are basically bragging about their discrete op amp. The spec has very little to do with sound. You could have a circuit that could only drive 50ma that could sound better. |
Hello Tim, Bruno Putzeys has left Hypex more than two yers ago, and as far as I know, he is not involved at this time with NCore technology development. He has since founded a new company, called Purifi: https://www.purifi-audio.com/ And within Purifi Bruno is developing new class D technology.... No, as far as I know, Putzeys may not be applying GaN transistors in his new design. Saluti, G.
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Thank you ricevs, Tim, and Jetter... Admittedly, I have been soaked in music since I was a tod... The only reason why I did not become a professional composer is that my retinas failed me in the late 1970s and could no longer use pencil and paper, so I switched major and took a degree in Comp Sci instead.... Good move, as I managed to make a reasonable living with the maddening machines until I retired at the end of '18. Yet, throughout all this time, music has continued to be an integral part of my life in one way or another.
I have no idea if I have expertise beyond anyone else, or if my ears are good or not, but they are the primary tool that I use to perceive the World... What I sometimes post are the stories about the beauty of music and sound that my ears tell to me... It is my joy to continue to share with you Audiogon friends the tonal magic that I hear through my system.
Saluti, G.
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selecthifi, Very good news that a completed class D amp using Hypex's top NC1200 modules and powered by their top Hypex SMPS1200A700 PSUs will be available soon from Nord for 3,995 pounds ($5,214 usd). With class D amps using the new faster GaN FETs availability increasing and entry prices decreasing, I doubt Hypex's decision to now allow Nord the use of their top NC1200 modules is a coincidence. This new amp from Nord raises a few interesting questions: Why has Nord limited the class A output current of their custom buffer feeding the NC1200 module in this new amp to 250mA? Is Hypex clearing NC1200 module inventory prior to introduction of a new top module, or even series of modules, utilizing the faster GaN FETs? What are Hypex designer, Bruno Putzeys, opinions on the new faster GaN FETs and does he plan to incorporate them into his future class D module designs? Tim |
I listen to all of my music streaming Tidal hifi (non MQA) with my Notebook with Audinirvana+ and Dirac Room Correction software (very recomendable). From the Notebook, I have the Audioquest Jitterbug (not a big improvement), then the Wyred4sound USB Reclocker with a Linear Power Supply (a very nice improvement), the Gustard U16 USB converter (an incredible improvement, I still cant believe it), then with a HDMI cable to my Audio-gd R8 Ladder DAC (a very nice and extremely detailed DAC), connected via ACSS cables to my Audio-gd Master 1 preamp (another great piece of gear), then with XLR cables to the Nord (no words needed), and then Kimber Cables 8R to my Q Acoustics Concept 500 tower speakers (amazing ones). Everything is connected to a Bada LB-5600 Power Filter with DH Labs AC Power Plus Cable and three PS Audio Noise Harversters. I use in all my connections Sylclear Contact Enhancer. Im about now to try the Synergistic Research HFT (10 Pieces). We’ll see if they are as good as some people say!! |
Hello guys I have a Nord stereo power amp, two monoblocks in one chasis, with NC500 modules and the new Rev D boards with Sparkos Op Amps. It cost me about 2k. I have no experience with other class D amps, but I've had some class A tube integrated, the last one (Line Magnetic LM-508IA integrated 300B tubes based) is a VERY rewarded one among audiophiles costed about 5k in US, with out the cost of upgrading the tubes. Using both as power amps and the exact same system, all I can say is that the Nord BLOWS it out of the water in EVERY field: pin point soundstage, depth, tonal accouracy, dinamics (WOW), noise, etc. May be the only thing they were close is midrange sweetness... Yes, this field in a class D amp vs a 300B class A valve amp! The Nord costs less than a half, weigths 1/5, consumes much less power, generates much less heat and needs zero manteinance (the tubes on the LM are expensive, mostly the Power ones, and you need to replace them about once a year). I dont know about the reselling price and for the price I've paid I dont care much, but the Nords are a bargain. My system never sounded so good!! |
Mad respect to Colin. About 6 months ago I came very close to buying, his Ice Edge then learned more about NCore and could not decide. Complicating the purchase, Im in USA, where there is almost zero Nord resale market Prior to my next purchase I had 2 Emerald Physics 100.2 SEs with upgraded fuses, which I found thin in the mids (they replaced a W4S MC 250/500 multi-channel amp) the 250 sounded different than the 500. I latter learned they were different modules I replaced the EPs with a used Audio Alchemy DPA -1 (stereo amp: MSRP $1995), which I bought at ~ 50% off. My preamp is the AA DDP-1.(also $1995 (sans PS 5 power supply: $695). This combination trounced the EP. After many months I was finally able to purchase a demo PS 5 power supply at 30% off. That addition can be likened to a young boys puberty voice change. I also am taking delivery of a slightly used (~ 300 hours) 3 piece PS Audio M700s (Ice modules) + Gain Cell dac//pre at ~ 40% off. These class D experiences will prepare me for what comes next, but sooner or later there will be a next I hear you saying "BUT" Well, this Nord could well be many people's last amp purchase, but what about GaN, etc? The good and bad is Class D is a fast moving target. Both Ric of EVS and Ralph of Atmosphere are entering the game soon |
This is the amplifier to buy made by Nord Acoustics Colin will sell direct worldwide please mention John from Select-hifi please to confirm your order, i own a pair of the one UP NC500 monos with REV D boards fitted with 2 x Sonic Imagery OP-AMPS, in each output channel, the sound is breathtaking i cannot think of anything else i have heard that sounds as good for anywhere near the price.YMMV. OVERVIEW OF HYPEX NC1200 We are exited to offer our new Hypex NC1200 based amplifier using Hypex’s best module and Nord REV D buffer boards.
Until recently the Hypex NC1200 was only available to a few Manufactures and with amplifiers costing upwards of £10K. We had access to the module but with a minimum pricing policy of £6.5K decided was to expensive for a boutique manufacture like Nord. A recent change in pricing policy means we are free to price as we feel fit. Without the expensive infrastructure of distributors , dealers, Reps, advertising, shows and other expensive we can bring you this exhaulted amplifier at a reasonable cost.
Using Hypex NC1200 modules powered by Hypex SMPS1200A700 PSU’s and a bespoke Nord Buffer designed specifically for the NC1200 and housed in our SE case work. The amp is packed with high end components from mains inlet to the speaker binding posts. Furutech FI-06 solid Copper Gold IEC mains inlet with Furutech FP-SO22N mains cable throughout. Furutech FT-786F R Rhodium XLR Sockets. WBT-0705Ag Signature Nextgen Solid Silver Conductor binding posts and connected by Neotech UP-OCC 14AWG Solid OCC Copper wire. Fuses TBC. No sonic stone unturned.
The new NC1200 bufferboard uses two Op Amps per channel and runs even further into Class A delivering up to 250mA of Class A current fed into the Hypex NC1200 module. The result is more tonal depth, dramatic improvement in bass, even greater depth of soundstage, slightly more detail all wrapped in a balance of rich texture and harmonics, bottom-end presence , amazing dynamics, exquisite resolution in the mids and upper frequencies, and a fully revealed, fully dimensional sound stage Headroom and listening volumes have increased and all combine in a totally musical non fatiguing Class A sound. Gone, if there was any hint, of solid state amplifier. The MKI uses REV C Buffer Board with choice of Sparkos SS3602 or Sonic Imagery 994 Op Amps. After an intense development and Op Amp evaluation we tried 3 op amps, from John Hardy, Sonic Imagery and Sparkos Labs. Despite excellent reports on the John Hardy 990C we preferred the Sparkos 2590 and Sonic Imagery 990 Enh. Both are excellent the difference in presentation is less than with the previous versions we used. We much prefer the Sonic Imagery. The Power sections Panasonic electrolytic capacitors value were chosen to deliver the best and fastest combination of attack and sustain the bass notes, small values have a faster flinch capacity to deliver crisp bass. To small and they run out of power to deliver sustained bass. We evaluated multiple devices before settling on 22uF. The new REV D buffer will also accept the two previous Op amps The SI994 and the Sparkos SS3602 in DIP8 packages. We have also further enhanced the peripheral circuit implementing further counter noise reduction. The new REV D is 100% compatible with our previous MKI amp and offer upgrades to the new spec. The new amp also benefits from a new symmetrical internal and rear panel layout resulting in shorter internal cable runs. We have also rebated the front Stainless Steel switch for a cleaner front panel (photos are not rebated) which has a Dim and Off setting via the back panel. |
The new Alchemy Series DPA-2 sounds interesting. I have some demo units coming in soon to review. Class A linear supply front end with class D output. I haven't heard one yet (or any class D) , but if it sounds comparable in quality to the DDP-2 preamp/DAC/streamer, it has potential to be excellent. Peter Madnick has my attention. |
Hello Guido, I had no idea you have such a musical background, very nice. My typical initial reaction, when I read negative comments about the sound quality of class D like those in clearthink's post , is to wonder exactly which class D amps they listened to that was perceived as sounding so bad. My next reaction, that seems to be similar to yours, is that they certainly did not listen to music amplified via my class D amps in my system since I always completely fail to recognize any of the supposed class D negative qualities they mention. Unfortunately, I recall only 1 class D amp critic listing the brand and model of class D amp on his post that he had listened to and based his opinions on. I welcome honest criticism of specific class D amps within the context of specific systems. However, some generalizations of class D performance (such as "I personally find that class D amplification sounds just dreadful to those familiar with the sound of real music, instruments, and acoustic spaces", "class D treble is harsh and fatiguing", "the soul of the music is missing" , "there's something missing", etc.) without mentioning any class D amp or system details are so broad and unspecific that they become meaningless. Tim |
Strength of Class D is when lots of power is needed in a small and perhaps affordable low maintenance package. Class D may or may not be a good option in other cases, however those will be weaker cases for Class D ie cases where the unique aspects of Class D do not matter as much. What the best option is largely depends on the playing field. Each approach is sound and can sound very good on its home field, less so playing away games on the others, so one can always set pre-conditions that favor one solution versus another. What happens and is needed in real life is all that matters in the end. |
You are passing judgement on GuidoReally! again!! If you bother to read yet again, which you have a problem with it seems comprehending, clearthink was expressing his opinions only, what he said quote: " I personally find". In no way was he trying to force his "judgement" onto "G" You need to take a "shill break" and get off threads that have nothing to do with what your selling in the near future. |
George, You need to take a break! You are passing judgement on Guido....that is for sure. Then, you could say, I am passing judgement on you for judging Guido for.......ha, ha, ha. Really, I love you....I don’t judge you....but I call you out on your judgements. Can we just let go and stop calling names! Lighten up George! Stop fighting! Go watch a hallmark movie.....cry a little...laugh a lot. Life is a miracle! Every breath is a divine glorious moment. |
Just please refrain from passing judgement on people who feel otherwise.... You need to get off your horse, I don’t think for one minute guidocorona that clearthink was passing judgement on to you or anyone at all!! He was giving his own personal thoughts as he stated said "I personally find" read it!!!. As for your prima-donna resume, just because you have been a "self paised" jack of all trades musical, does not mean you were a master at any, or can even hear well either. |
Noble100+++ "class D amplification sounds just dreadful to those familiar with the sound of real My experience with live music and spaces is puny... You are right ClearThink... heard a live violin for the first time when I was six years old.... So I decided that I needed to learn music.... Started to take piano lessons and at 16 I got a Steinway baby grand.... Started to attend classical concerts at 13 at the Sala Verdi and the Teatro Alla Scala in Milan... Became a member of the selection committee for the Italian Concert Season of the Gioventu’ Musicali when I was 18.... Briefly trained as a bass baritone, and sang in a variety of classical choirs... Studied phylosophy of music and composition at college..... Attended music camps where daily I listened to violins by Antonio Stradivari, Guarneri Del Gesu', and Guadagnini.... Coached my daughter for 12 years when she was studying cello... Wrote articles on PFO.... At 65 I play the euphonium, flugel horn, cornet, trumpet, flute, and baroque recorders.... But apparently I know nothing about acoustic music and live spaces, and that’s probably why I am fond of such class D amps as the Bel Canto REF1000M, The Merrill Veritas, the Mola Mola Kaluga, the Rowland M312... Even worse, I absolutely adore the Rowland M535 bridged amps, and my Rowland M925 monoblocks... Somehow I managed to delude myself into believing that I am experiencing musical nirvana. Nothing wrong in not liking current class D amps, ClearThink... Provided you experienced at some depth some of the best examples out there... Just please refrain from passing judgement on people who feel otherwise.... Their musical experience might be very well as deep as yours, Yet they might have developed opinions very different from yours. Regards, Guido
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clearthinker? LOL you go from first person to who knows whta to validate your personal opinion " I personally find that class D amplification sounds just dreadful to those familiar with the sound of real music, instruments, and acoustic spaces." I am quite familiar with live and reproduced music via claas A, AB, tube, and 4 different class Ds (soon to be 5) . and while I somewhat agree, having owned earlier generations from W4S, my Audio Alchemy stereo amp sounds like real music, at least WHEN the recording is well done , but bad discs sound BAD. |
scratcha , I was having an email conversation last year with Ryan Tew from Red Dragon Audio. He is working on new amps and the old line is no longer being made. This is from an email last April:
As his ETA was sometime in the Fall I contacted him again in September asking how things were going:
In January I asked if he was going to update his website. Never replied. I’ve been putting off buying an amp for over a year waiting for his new line to come out. I’m not sure I’m going to wait much longer. I have a pair of Murano Audio P200 mono amps that are long overdue for retirement however With GaN technology Class -D amps on the horizon I think I’m going to hold off for awhile. |
Class D audio amplification is a lot like electric cars they are both environmentally friendly and in some applications, uses, and products perform in a way that is at a minimum acceptable to a certain subset of users but the technology is still in its early developmental stages and not suited to the vast majority of installation and systems and I personally find that class D amplification sounds just dreadful to those familiar with the sound of real music, instruments, and acoustic spaces. |
scratchaThe Class-D Audio (which is USA made and sold) is one to look out for as they say they will have their new models of the GaN technology Class-D amps coming out soon, don’t know if they will have it in kit form as well like their other products. Chers George |
Good Morning, I haven't personally demoed any of these; but here's what I've been researching in Audiophile type forums. I've heard mostly great reviews of these particular models; these reviews being from people that have actually bought them, etc...: Schiit Lyngdorf CherryAmp D-Sonic ClassD Audio Outlaw Audio Elac PS Audio Red Dragon These are in no particular order of greatness as listed. I've been looking to replace a Harman Kardon HK3770, with one or two of the above; still trying to make a decision. I'm leaning toward ClassD Audio. I was really interested in Red Dragon; but he's sold-out of the model I was looking at; I can't get in touch with him either. I wanted to know when/if that model was going to be available, in the near future. Have a good one! |
Jeff, Exactly, your description is what I hear listening to very good class D amps. "There is generally a more relaxed presentation of the music because of these attributes" is an accurate summary of what to expect. Besides the relaxed and seemingly effortless presentation, I would only add my perception that, due to their very high signal to noise levels and the resultant very low background noise levels, music seems to emerge from a dead-silent and inky black background that enhances the whole experience. Tim |
I recently had my Nuforce 9SE V3 amps upgraded by Bob Smith at TDSS to his Level 3. All I can say is WOW, I have a new stereo. I'm hearing details in the music that I previously didn't know were there. Although there is more detail, there is no harshness or edginess to the music. Bass slam is more dynamic yet articulate without sounding muddy. There is generally a more relaxed presentation of the music because of these attributes. Bob is a delight to work with and I highly recommend him. Jeff |
jetter, The Stereophile reviewer heard significant sound quality improvements with separating the PS 700M monos and having them both on amp isolation stands rather than stacked. I'd suggest just trying the amps both ways in your system and determine if you perceive the same significant improvements he mentions. If you do perceive large improvements, buy a couple good amp stands and locate the amps separated by placing one on each side of your rack on the floor or place one beside/behind each of your main speakers. This would require longer inter-connects and shorter speaker wires but this shouldn't cause any issues with that. If you don't perceive large improvements, buy some sorbane pads or the blocks cited in the Stereophile review and stack 'em. I use thick maple amp stands (from Mapleshade) with conical brass spiked footers on my class D monos but I have room on the 6' wide top shelf of my rack with one at each end for a symmetrical look. This works well but I never even thought of stacking them ( they're only about 7"w x5"h x 12"d) so I never compared stacked to separated. Tim |
Tweak1: get those anti-vibration blocks that were cited in the Stereophile review. I got a box of 48 of them for about $26 and they are great!!! I put three of them under all of my components. https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 |
