Looks like the 2170 has had some issues with the relay that is on the volume control that effects manual operation but works just fine with remote.
My 2170 is almost 10 months old and I haven’t had any trouble luckily,I don’t know if my relay is a different and or better part than some earlier ones.
Most gear is built to a particular price point and most of the time the manufacturers use some cheaper parts in some areas and spend more of their overall parts budgets other places.
I will have to look at my relay and see exactly what it is,but I think if mine goes bad I will replace it myself and find a better relay if possible.
The 3400 Probably has some better parts than the 2170 adressing some of their known issues.
Kenny.
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I will look at the relay one of these days,this is why I have always kept 2 complete systems,because of the nature of electronics,but for a amp backup all I have is a Octave audio tube integrated and I would have to use a Oppo with its built in Dac.😩.
Anyway,without the blessings from Terry London,I’m presently modding my Silverline Boleros with better caps on the Esotar tweeters,Duelund internal wire and more and better damping material,Eaisest speakers that I’ve ever worked on for sure.😃.
Since we are discussing the known issues that the 2170 has,I have heard from 2 other long term owners that they have a issue with the pwr switch on the back outboard of the pwr iec input.They have reported electrical arcing noises when using that switch at various times.
I never use that switch myself I just leave it switched on and if I take the 2170 out of my system I simply unplug it.I’ve seen several amps over the yrs that have done this,including Accuphase that I owned.
When I get around to modding my 2170,I’m going to wire the switch completely out of the circuit and add a better quality iec connector and may add a standard fuse holder to try out a tuning fuse of some kind.
Kenny.
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robelvick,
Cool going for a 3400,and let us know how you like it.
Would you know exactly how old your 2170 is,Lyngdorf does put a date of manufacturer on the board if you have ever had the top open.
You might give Tony Barnette a call,he’s the owner of Ellington HiFi in Alabama.He May be able to get you one the quickest.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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I think the 3400 comes with a roll of 3/4 black tape to help hide the front connectors if not used.
Kenny.
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“I think with CD use dwindling, people will take a USB drive with music on it to a friend's house to play, so a front port makes good sense.”And also a thumb drive to would be handy.
You silly guys,you know you want a 3400,I know I do.
Kenny.
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“The latter of course is a lot more expensive so it needs to perform exceptionally well.”
I couldn’t agree more,the only preliminary reports that I have gotten from actual owners of new 3400’s sound quite promising in comparison to their previous 2170’s as far as only comparisons in sonics but also keep in mind they don’t have anywhere near 500 hrs,and I would like to think the 3400 needs the same break in time that the 2170 does.
I’m not going to try one myself for a couple of months,to many outside spring projects right now,but when I do I will definitely give the good,bad,or ugly on it.
Kenny.
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I would say that the 2170 and probably the 3400 need around 250 hrs to be at their very best,mainly related to the wonderful soundstage that they can deliver being truthful to the individual recordings.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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grannyring,
That’s some really good customer service on Lyngdorf’s part In sending you what you need to fix your display.
Please keep us updated on how it all works out.
Kenny. |
Robelvick,
I wish you also the best of luck with the micromega and do let us know what you think.
The micromega is a interesting class d Intergrated that has a high quality built in dac that will accept high resolution digital and it looks to be a really solid build quality.If I ever get the chance to hear one I definitely will.
As Time moves fwd I definitely think we will see more of these one box wonders that are highly musical and functional and not just “Lifestyle components” that have the higher WAF.
I always go where my ears take me but sometimes my wallet doesn’t back that up either.
Kenny.
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I would like to talk about USB cables a little,now I know this subject is highly subjective and controversial and if I didn’t try some different ones in my system,I wouldn’t have found the perfect match in Synergy for my system.
I didn’t think in the beginning that a Digital cable would make any difference at all but I’m a firm believer now and after trying several in my system and there again for my preference in sonics I have found a couple of cables that present themselves in a natural pleasing manner and the icing on the cake is they won’t hurt your wallet to bad.
I was lucky and got to borrow a few of the more expensive so called high end ones,such as wireworld and synergistic research,but I found these cables to be quite brite sounding and really exaggerate the leading and trailing edges of notes with none or very little bloom to the sound.
I ended up buying one of the phasure lush cables and I have been comparing this cable with a custom made cable that grannyring is making and perfecting over several months of careful listening comparisons.
I do believe that they both compare quite closely and I could easily live with either one and I have no desire to try anything else at this point.
I usually do these cable comparisons by leaving a cable in my system for a wk or two and listen to all kinds of music,then I will swap and do the same and make my decision based on how well a cable balances out several different recordings in sonics and there again It’s all about overall system synergy and individual sonic preferences.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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bullitt5094,
You made a good decision and I think those grannyring cables will give you the sound you want.But as you know only one way to find out and let us know how they work out.
I’ve used the Shunyata venom and for me it was only ever so slightly better than a standard cheap usb cable in all sonic quality’s,no experience with the gemini though.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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You just have to use what sounds best in your system,I’ve run into a few Europeans that like Bypass mode with no correction at all.
It’s a good thing that the Lyngdorf products allow this IMO.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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And you said you can’t keep up with me.
Peter Pan is the upgrading man.
I found that the Gr usb cables only need about 100 hrs or slightly less to be at their best,so keep them playing and us updated.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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jafant,
Ellington HiFi is listed on the Lyngdorf’s dealer page and was also recommended to me by a couple of long distance Audiogon friends.
I live in Oklahoma but if I’m ever down south I wouldn’t hesitate to visit Tony and listen to some music and I agree he’s one of the very best dealers I’ve ever done business with.
grannyring,
Yes that is some outstanding service,please keep us updated on the fix.
Kenny. |
aniwolfe,
I’m glad to read you have your 2170 back from service,looks like Lyngdorf took great care of you and you received your prized component back in a timely manner.I’ll beat you we’re missing it.
Enjoy,
Kenny.
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Uberwaltz,
I’ve only used the rca inputs of the 2170 only briefly so I have no idea about the Xlr.I only use 3 different Digital inputs for my sources.
It might be your wireworld cable,the cables that I’ve used from them before were quite bright and fatiguing.
Kenny. |
Hello David,
I’m glad you are enjoying your 3400 and Thanks for the update, I’ve been coresponding via email with 4 guys in Europe that are really enjoying their 3400’s as well and they all have replaced 2170’s as well.
Keep us updated as you get your setup dialed in and have more time with it.
Kenny.
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Nicks25,
I tried 2 different dac’s into my 2170 in the beginning and I got much better results using the digital inputs on the 2170,as others have stated.
I use usb input from a Sotm ultra renderer that’s hooked up via Ethernet in my local network.To me That’s one of the many pluses of using a 2170 or 3400 is not needing or wanting any other Preamp,Amp,or dac.
I’ve recently been able to borrow a couple of top music servers,Lumin U1 and Aurrender W20 to compare to my highly tweaked computer running server 2016,Roon server,Audiophile optimizer,Fidelizer,and most importantly HQ player,the results were even though both of these servers are quite nice and very easy to use neither one beat the sound I’m already getting from my computer especially with all the tweaks in upsampling and filtering that HQ player have.
If you have more questions give me call sometime,
Kenny.
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HQ player is the best software player and incorporates with Roon as my Library database and also Tidal.
HQ player has the best upsampling and filtering options of any other player including Roon 1.5 and would Probably beat and or rival any hardware upsampling that any Dac uses including playback designs and denefips.
Greatly simplifies my system and not chasing the Dac dragon anymore and having to stimulate the industry with my coins.
HQ player is also greatly supported and upgrades are free to your bought software and is very stable along with Roon.
I’ve never used Audirvana,that’s generally for macs.
Kenny. |
Yes,USB audio can be quite a mess but with proper selection of the gear in your audio chain it can be also quite excellent.
I use a upgraded and modded Audiovox network switch then to a pair of FMC’s,that remove any noise or grunge that Ethernet can have,I than connect to my SOtM ultra 200 via Ethernet cable and than output via USB to the Lyngdorf.
I’ve definitely discovered that everything in the digital world makes a difference,sometimes not for the better.
It would be nice to eliminate any usb stuff in the chain though and go directly in with a Ethernet connection,but since I use roon,tidal and output to HQ player,it’s not clear to me if the new 3400 will be Roon ready.I need to email Lyngdorf and ask them.
I also use the Acoustic Revive LAN noise isolater between my cable modem and router,I’ve tried it in different positions but seems to do the most good in that spot.
More to follow,
Kenny. |
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Wow I haven’t heard the old “Watts for dollars” thing in many yrs. I know for myself with the gear I owned at the time of receiving the 2170 from a dealer in Alabama for a demo in my own system for a week,that’s when I decided on the 3rd day that the Lyngdorf was certainly a keeper with great promise,just needed to really learn about this technology and optomize it in my system. When I was finished selling off unneeded gear,preamps,amps,dac’s,I easily put 40k back into my pocket.I don’t even count all the cables and pwr cords not needed any more. The Lyngdorf needs to be used as the one box solution that it was designed for with only digital inputs being used,even though it has analog inputs that actually sound very good when I have used them just for experimentation in my system or others.The analog outputs via a single ended connection are intended for subwoofers,but I have tried some diff. Pwr amps just because But wasn’t that impressed with the sonics of a different flavor in amplification when I’ve been greatly rewarded with the sonics it produces all own it’s own. After I used this new kid on the block in my system and Offcourse sent the very accommodating dealer a check,I had put about 400 hrs or so which was enough time for complete break in.The Lyngdorf needs to be powered up all the time and you can program the display to go dormant after a min or two,switching to standby doesn’t really work.I have only had my Lyngdorf off when I’ve taken it out of my system for testing or taken to a friends system for demo purposes. I needed to backup what I was hearing with some measurements of my own,so I took it too a friend that has all the proper test equipment and found out in harmonic waveforms that the 2170 puts out mostly 3rd order harmonics with a good quanity of 2nd order as well.But definitely has no nasty sounding upper order harmonics at all and the 2170 uses zero negative feedback of any kind. Nelsen Pass,who has always been one of my top Idols in this industry wrote a very interesting article about amp distortions and what may be pleasing or not pleasing to most people. More to come about the 2170’s topology and room perfect. http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdfKenny. |
“Lyngdorf lists the 3400 as Roon Ready and Spotify Connect are part of it's streaming services.” I did see this info but haven’t seen the 3400 added to the Roon list of Roon ready devices.Not a huge deal breaker for me. http://lyngdorf.com/tdai-3400/I have just sold my present speakers which are PPA trio 15 with the Beyma amt tweeter and in the next few weeks will receive a pair of Silverline Audio Bolero Supremes and also Lawrence Audio Double Bass speakers so I’m looking at a 3400 for possibly needing more pwr than what the 2170 has into 8ohms.I’m gonna try the 2170 with each speaker and then decide. I’m also not in any hurry to buy the latest anything,let the dust settle and make sure it doesn’t have any bugs. Kenny. |
“Something I found online was it being used solely as a preamp/room tune here, system 2”
The 2170 has digital outputs to use with their own digital pwr amp,I’ve never tried one,but I’m sure it could be used with active powered speakers such as those Dyn’s.
Kenny. |
The 2170 isn’t a class d amp per say,it works differently than other class d amps.
The 2170 and probably the 3400 as well,not enough info on the 3400,use a Texas Instruments chip that converts any incoming “Digital” signal into PWM and then any kind of Dsp is applied to the signal at this time,that would include volume setting,room perfect,and the preset voicings,which I don’t use but have played with.The finished dsp corrected amplified signal is then converted to a analog waveform right before the speaker outputs.
I know I had the same concerns before buying one of being outdated in 2 or 3 yrs like any other dac,but with the conversions that are taking place from the digital side only I don’t see any concern to be obsolete any time soon.
Now if you do use the Analog inputs,the incoming signal is converted to pcm 24/96 first before being converted to PWM,I can’t recall the dac chip offhand,It’s a top quality chipset that’s common in today’s technology but certainly will be obsolete or outdated as time goes by.I don’t use any of the Analog inputs,I only stream a Digital signal from my Roon endpoint via USB,so I personally don’t worry about it.
I also use HQ player in combination with Roon and tidal,and Offcourse HQ player uses software for its upsampling and filtering with lots of everchanging capability.All I know for sure is any change that I make with the HQ players settings definitely are reflected in the sound.
I don’t know anything about what Crown is using nowadays,I haven’t used any of their gear in yrs,so I can’t comment on that.
Kenny.
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We’re getting some good questions here that I wished I could answer,the 3400 should have more than enough pwr for most speakers without needing the external 2400 pwr amp that they show on the website.Kinda confusing to me and I agree with what has already been said,not enough info yet.
I know very little about the Hegel or Naim products that are similar but I don’t believe they utilize any type of room correction that I have ever seen,and for me that made all the difference in my room.
I’ve played around with what Roon has in their lastest build but I got no where near as good results.
Kenny.
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I’m gonna try my best to explain my thoughts from experience using Room perfect correction and maybe I can answer some of the questions that members are asking.
I don’t have a treated dedicated listening room anymore since moving 3yrs ago into a much smaller house,so our living room is our main listening room and for tv as well.Luckily this room is 12x25x9 and has no corners that are close to the speakers when set on the long wall.To keep up the WAF factor I decided not to go crazy with room treatments and deal with the compromise in other ways,most Listening rooms are compromised in some way.
My experience with Rp was initially not that great and took some work in learning my room better,so I end up with only 5 mic positions and very little correction on the Lyngdorf.Room perfect isn’t 100% perfect and you most definitely wouldn’t want any kind of speaker placed really close to the wall.Basically with some trial and error and six different times of going through the setup,over about a months time,I found the best mic positions and correction that I feel took the room completely out of the picture and I’m hearing the true character of any speaker that I have.As I mentioned earlier I’ve just bought 2 sets of used ones and I’ve sold my Pap trio 15’s locally.So I’m currently using my highly modded Jbl L-150’s that I purchased in 1982 that I’ve kept all of these yrs.With a careful setup and placement of these old uglies,that’s what my wife called them,I’m getting sonics and sound quality that I never knew they were capable of,but I still want my others to show up.
I’ve noticed a much better and more precisely layered soundstage with Rp than any system that I’ve ever had before.With experimentation I do believe you can transform a system to have a wider and deeper stage that to my ears is believable and realistic but you don’t just plop the Lyngdorf into your system and hook it up and expect miracles.
The Lyngdorf can work wonders with subs also,has built in crossover’s that you can use and also with the mains if they aren’t full range,you could high pass your mains at 40 to 60 Hz and take the load off of the amp and speaker which might increase your midrange clarity and focus.
More thoughts another time,
Kenny.
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Very good Informative words being written from actual owners that are digging the ease of use and most importantly the sonics they are getting with the 2170.
The volume control as Grannyring spoke about is the most transparent and at the same time,gives the very best low level detail and dynamics of any volume control implementation that I’ve ever used.That would include a bent audio tap x with autoformers.
In operation the volume control changes the pwr supply voltage only and retains the same current which most definitely helps the dynamics at lwr volume settings.
The Lyngdorf also has a sensitivity setting on each input individually and you can change the gain to match in volume with other inputs.Similar in theory of changing preamp gain but with no detected downside.
Kenny.
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When I first got my 2170 six months ago,I was in the process of going all digital anyway so I wasn’t too critical with the sound I got playing analog through it.I can say this though I always have seeked a more detailed and resolving sound vs super warm and lush.Offcourse I still demanded some warmth and no fatigue also,my favorite cartridges over the last few yrs were Xyz’s if that tells you anything.My favorite stage was a Ray Samuels Xr-10b and really never liked any tubed based stages.
I’m going to be highly suprised if Lyngdorf or Pink Faun make a stand-alone Ethernet input board for the 2170,It probably would be to big physically to fit the existing case.Maybe I will be proved wrong,time will tell.
Kenny.
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Jcarcopo,
I can’t believe what I’m reading,Lol.
Please keep us informed on the 3400 and I hope it works out for you like the 2170 has for me.
There’s a chap on Computer audiophile that’s in England that has ordered a 3400 and he paid the equivalent to 6k in dollars,If that’s correct than that will be the cheapest finest sounding 400 watts that I have ever heard of.🤑
I’ve already blown up my budget with 16k worth of speakers so I will just be in envy for a while.
Kenny.
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HiFi Heaven just quoted me a price of $7199.00 for a fully loaded 3400,they have 4 coming in within a week but no plans for a in store display demo unit for awhile.
Kenny.
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I’m like Grannyring and I leave mine all the time,offcourse we use it all day and evening.I’ve proved it many a time when I’ve had it off in my own system or when I’ve taken to other people’s houses and tried it in their systems.It’s not that it sounds bad by any means but it’s not going to be at it’s best either.Needs to be on around 12 hrs to be really stabilized,nature of it’s pwr supply.
I’m not worried one bit about the little Wilma LPF caps,they are cheap and last very long time anyhow.And besides when I do get a 3400 in a few months,I will be changing the caps like Grannyring did,and some other mods as well.
He has told me personally how much a profound difference the change will make,and I know from firsthand experience changing the low pass filter caps on the ncore amps that I had several yrs ago.
Kenny. |
I agree,I didn’t think in those terms,I don’t think about class a topologies anymore since I have this cool running one box wonder.
Kenny. |
You can do it either way,I basically like to setup everything,subs,speaker position optimized and everything else dialed in and run rp last.I do believe I get the least amount of correction for a given room knowledge %.
I hope this helps you,if you have more questions just ask either here or via a pm.
Good luck,
Kenny.
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Your on the right track,let us know how it works out.
Kenny.
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Glad you tried one,only one way to find out.
I don’t have di speakers,got rid of them first of the year,I have Silverline bolero supremes and also will be getting a set of Lawrence audio double bass speakers next week.
I haven’t upgraded my 2170 either,your going to have to take the main board out of the case to be able to solder the LPF caps and you might as well upgrade the speaker output wire at the same time.
I will do mine after I get a 3400 in a few months,I won’t be selling my 2170.I’m going to keep it for my 2nd system and or backup.
Would you say that rp got rid of some of the cabinet talk that the Zu’s have by nature.I know what they sound like I used to own them.
Happy Listening,
Kenny. |
I updated my 2170 to the latest firmware,135a,but I don’t recall exactly how I accomplished this.It’s been several months,I just keep messing with it till it finally did load up.
I believe the latest firmware mostly just added some new voicings,which are the preset equalizer settings,which I don’t use anyway.
With my dedicated computer which is the main piece in my digital front end,I don’t use Lyngdorf’s usb software plugin,I have no need for it because I’m networked with Ethernet until the last step and I use the Sotm ultra 200 renderer,which converts and reclocks into a Usb format and then connects to my Lyngdorf via usb cable.
I’m glad to read that it’s working out for you.
Kenny. |
Yeah that’s the ticket,I remember now you don’t need that readme.doc.That’s just for information only.
Glad you got it figured out and Thank’s a bunch guys for all these informative posts.I know there’s lots of folks contemplating about the Lyngdorf products and like reading actual user impressions,priceless info really.
Kenny. |
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There’s a 3amp 250 volt fuse on the board inboard of the incoming ac input.It’s replaceable but isn’t the same type as a hi fi tuning fuse.
You would have to get very creative to modify,and I wouldn’t recommend unless you have some very good skills.
Kenny. |
Unless yours is different than mine,it’s just a replaceable fuse and not a breaker.Mine is a small round sealed fuse that plugs into it’s little holder via 2 prongs.I don’t recall the brand name but I’m sure “Mouser” has them.
Kenny.
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Very good question but no definite answer yet.
Time will tell.
You may be able to snag a 2170 on the used market,they come up once in awhile,won’t be mine though.😃.
Hopefully you will be able to get one in your system and hear what all the fuss is about.
Kenny.
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Yes,I’m getting the same info from the Lyngdorf USA rep. from a email that I received today.He said that if the 3400 sales well,and they certainly expect it to,that in a couple of yrs the 2170 would be revised and include a Ethernet input.
The 3400 is a true certified ROON endpoint,meaning Lyngdorf paid the Roon licensing fee but Roon hasn’t added this product to there list yet but will.
That means the 3400 will be truly plug and play and very easy to setup with Roon,Tidal,HQ player and Qbuz streaming when and if Roon decides to add,sometime this year.
No more USB stuff will be needed.
Kenny.
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Mofojo,
Just think if you buy either,you may not need any other gear including cables and can sale them and pocket the difference.
That’s how I have the means to buy the Lawrence Audio double bass speakers which I should get tomorrow.
Best of luck to you,
Kenny.
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Again I haven’t seen all the 3400 specs,but I definitely know my 2170 will accept any digital format that I’ve feed it.
Most definitely will accept and respond to the sound of Dsd512 and or 32/384 pcm that’s upsampled with HQ player.I upsample all my Redbook and or Tidal to 32/384 and have also used Dsd,but I like pcm better.
Roon as a player has a long way to go to catch up with HQ players upsampling,filtering and noise shaping features.
If you are thinking about Dsd 512 upsampling and some of the advanced filtering your going to need some serious computer horsepower.
I only use Roon as my library interface,music database and Tidal streaming integration,works flawlessly.
Kenny.
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Yes I know that.I was talking about the changes coming for Roon by itself and also the adding of Qbuz streaming with Roon like tidal.
I assure you the 2170 will accept a dsd 512 format,I know I used it,but I prefer pcm at 32/384 upsampled by HQ player along with its poly-sinc-xtr-mp filter and ns5 dither.
I’ve had my 2170 for 6 months now I know it’s capability.
I hope you enjoy it,
Kenny.
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My Lawrence audio double bass speakers showed up today,all I can say is OMG,so glorious.
Double impacts to Double bass with a couple of others in between.
Enjoy that music,
Kenny. |
essrand,
Please let us know how that 2170 works out for you.
ronrags,
Yes,the violins were on my list several yrs ago but I didn’t really want a standmount monitor speaker,my last ones were Dyn c1’s,great speaker though,just not popular anymore unfortunately.Dealers almost have to hold their customers at gunpoint to sale them.
What do you power those violins with,just curious.
Thank You for the kind words and yes these double bass speakers are just glorious.
Kenny. |
Unsound,
I will attempt to answer some of your questions if I can,but most of Lyngdorf’s operating technology is in my opinion,proprietary to them and until someone buys their own and pops the top open for a peek,Offcourse most will have no idea what they are looking at.
I try and respect the manufacturers of our components that we buy and I’m only willing to say so much.
The only “spec sheet” is the online manual that’s available to anyone,and direct email’s to their engineering department will get you no answers either.
What I can tell you is that any “Digital” signal that you feed into the 2170,via any of it’s digital inputs is first converted to PWM and then any form of DSP manipulation,volume control,equalization voicings If used,and room perfect correction are applied to the PWM signal before being sent to the amplification portion of the unit.
Now if you feed a “Analog” signal into the 2170,it must first convert into a digital signal via a hardware dac that is 24/96 by chip topology and then is converted to PWM and on down the chain.
Without question to my ears,and using a 2170 for 6 months now,the better that you feed it most definitely the better it will sound.
I can’t really comment at all about your questions related to equalization,whether fixed or parametric,or db range either.I simply have no idea and I don’t use any of the preset voicings that the 2170 offers,I have used Roon’s Parametric equalizer with some speakers with good results,I think the key is to not be very heavy handed with any of them.
I hope I’ve helped you,
Kenny.
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