Sidssp,
tell me a modern design you think it will surpass the sound qualities of the EMT 927? I will then tell you if I have not listened to it in all the private systems I was able to study and all the audio fairs I went to. In this case I am eager to learn and will try testing the design if possible. |
Dear Halcro,
"No voodoo is any turntable rest assured! plain facts. EMT927 was designed and built with no shortcuts, power/torque & size of motor, serious bearing, platter height, distance of motor fixation to arm, the list is long....just well done and that gives us what? Well? all we need! indeed stable speed, no rumble or wow, isolation...etc. In fact if you look at the claims marketed by TT marker of this day they are just telling us that EMT had nailed them all. Simple! EMT 927 & R80 users tend to listen to their records, keep quiet and enjoy, full stop. But to really get a grasp on what it is worth? You have to get one....and in that lies the issue no doubt?.
One has to accept the limitations of any choice and EMT is no exception! With the 927 forget the "playing with arm and carts game", you don't have to change any parameters when using the excellent TSD Tondosen. Or if you have the 139st onboard forget the "matching the impedance and dishing out big bucks on phono-stages" that both come sometimes with more questions than they answer? so "idler-drive distinctiveness or something else"....no idea, I just play that deck more and more and as this community knows I have no shortage of TT's...is that an answer?
|
Art Dudley wrote a very good article in the June issue: "Idler days are coming". |
Dear Lewm,
I am comparing both, inbuilt and external phono stages. I have the chance to compare a 927 with an inbuilt phono stage as well as my R-80 in connection with the EMT JPA-66, Boulder 2008, Kondo M7 and Zanden 1200 MK II phono stages running carts on a Ortofon RMA-309 (TSD) or SME 3012 I -first series- (e.g. Atlas, Neumann DST, Denon ZU). I had some other very good turntables which all had its sunny sides, to mention some: Kelch Reference II, Goldmund Reference I, Garrard 501, Nakamichi 1000, Technics SP10 MK II. I used them in my phono lines extensively. Pretty sure the new owners are happy with these designs.
Nevertheless my experiences are not limited to the listed tables and lines :-) but just to give you an idea and a better understanding of the test field enabling you assessing for your own purposes.
Dear Halcro,
understand :-). To give you some words on the sound: The EMT provides a majestic soundstage, it is stable and dominant, musical, warm - just overwhelming. You will hear a difference to some other idlers which are sometimes too much on the bassy side. Currently I am running a TSD Anniversary in the Ortofon RMA 309 via a Western Electric 618B SUT to the EMT JPA-66 phono stage. This is my DreamLine!
The Caliburn and the Micros are wonderful machines, too. All are belt driven and comprise lots of armboard possibilities, even the Criterion with the TOHO external stand. I love switching between the three remaining tables in my room. Due to space problems I am reducing from 5 to 3 tables. I listened to some other new designs and was impressed of the Brinkmann Oasis with the Thales Simplicity arm on a HRS board, maybe together with the new Thales TTT-C table one of the convincing new designs. But they will not (and don't need ) reaching the EMT. |
Dear Peterayer,
I will try to describe the differences I have found with the same tonearm (SME 3012 I - first series, which I regard as one of the best arms ever built- in comparison to some of its direct successors) on the same MS board I have used on the MS tables as well as on my R-80.
Also I used the same cart (lyra Atlas) and same phono pre (EMT JPA-66 with its own SUT).
When you listen to Jimmy Smith organ interpretation the underlying energy from the EMT puts any other turntable to shame. This I guess is demonstrating that despite the wider grooves and resistance they represent the EMT drive just keeps it steady and going strong.
The decay of piano notes on a Bill Evans record (originals and AP 45 reissues) just seem to last forever with the EMT even under the notes being played, my belt drives have a tendency to come short in this arena.
On the other hand the Micro Seiki SX II (double vaccum) has some other advantages which will bring it very close to the EMT, maybe the best belt drive design ever built and regarding rock music my absolut favourite with a FR-66 mounted. |
Dear all,
I posted since 36 hours but my two posts are not published yet.
I have to admit that with this kind of moderation I cannot communicate timely. I have to apoligize for this unprofessional forum management by the moderator. It is not my fault and I feel not treated well in my own thread.
eckart |
Pani,
I have not heard all EMTs but a Verdier. A good friend of mine was able comparing the EMTs. He had heard 930 vs 927 same room same system, etc....the 930 does not have the solid base presence of the 927 and on complex musical passages (a lot of instruments dynamic etc...) the 930 gets confused, dynamics of the 927 shine vs the 930.
EMT 950 = yes heard but perhaps the torque and power of drive is better than the 927 (that is what EMT said???), the problem is that the 950 is fully integrated with onboard solid state phono stage. I think the 950 is great if only it was not all solid state it would be in my room...
Verdier = Micro Seiki, maybe Verdier a bit better as motor is stronger but then the string transmission is still the same and needs to be carefully implemented or improved.
This is why I always recommend using different PS and steering devices for the big Micros.
There are two many people asking the same question....and there is only one way you can answer it....try yourself!
Good Halcro!
If you cannot do that then just live happy with what you have got.
Also too many of us never mention records, and that is the most important part of it all.
Now if the idea is to play poorly recorded or post 70's thin vinyl our whole debate is pointless.
I like to add this contradicting myself a little but maybe it is helpful.
BTW I posted these words two days ago, told it Audiogon and do it again now. |
Hevac1.
I know the Micro BL-91 very well. You are not seriously believing what you assessed here in comparison with the EMT 927, or are you? |
Ct0517, just comparing the similarities not the differences :-)
Tbg, I am using Stillpoints as feet under my Copulare racks. what a diffence! I wouldn't use the original feet.
Halcro, agree with structural airborne issues. You may completely solve this problem by anchoring the racks with the concrete floor. In my case I used the Stillpoints under the racks. This improved a lot. Nevertheless you need to implement anti-vibration issues for the drive, motors, tonearm stands etc.
It might be also very crucial putting the speakers and subs far away from electronics and analog units. |
Dear Raul,
I am fascinated by you thoughts, "why can't it be?"
Because when you have the MS BL-91 and the EMT 927 in very good conditions (no cheap buys, no unserved units) and you compare these two tables under the same condition in a good system you will hear it. If not, oh boy... |
Dear Lewn,
I may tell you why so many accepted the proposition. Because I believe many have heard about the capabilities of the EMT 927. Among serious audiophiles there is no doubt that the EMT 927 /R 80 is one of the great designs in turntable history as are e.g. the big Micros
To be honest I couldn' t really believe it until I convinced myself of the sound qualties of this machine.
Indeed the entry level is a huge one, I mean pricewise and finding a well preserved and perfectly running unit. Whenever you have a chance pls. do listen to the EMT. You will beginn to understand... |
Dear Lewm,
do understand! You should come to Munich one day to hear the EMT R 80 with the EMT JPA-66. I am running separate phono stages with the EMT R 80. The R-80 has no inbuilt phono pre which is appropriate to my system requirements. I have also heard the inbuild tube pre with an EMT 927 which sounded really good, too.
Yes I compared my tables with the same arm and the same phono stage. This is what I am doing permanently and I love it while others may believe in a one table/phono pre solution.
Your Leica is a beautiful instrument, now you should consider going for a IIId :-) BTW do you know the book of Alessandro Pasi - Leica, Witness to a century, revised edition. big recommendation! |
Dear Lewm,
the R 80 is the prototype of the EMT 927. about 60 units were built in the 50ies. They differ in their various configurations. EMT decided later to use the inbuilt phono pre for the 927 and also used a light and a brake etc. All this comes not with the R 80. In this way the R 80 is a very puristic 927.
Agree with you on the Leicas despite I am using the Canon 1Ds and the Sony Nex7, too. I think the M6 is not such a bad design :-) |
Dear Lewm,
the R 80 is the prototype of the EMT 927. about 60 units were built in the 50ies. They differ in their various configurations. EMT decided later to use the inbuilt phono pre for the 927 and also used a light and a brake etc. All this comes not with the R 80. In this way the R 80 is a very puristic 927.
Agree with you on the Leicas despite I am using the Canon 1Ds and the Sony Nex7, too. |
Dear Hevac1,
of course it is all to our personal preferences. It also depends in which condition you have listened to the 927. I know from friends who had first contcat with the EMT when it was discovered in the garage or picked up in a studio, long time forgotten in a dark corner. For this old idler you need very good service, on the wheel, the bearing oil, the bearing itself, the brake etc. Which plate did you use, the glass platter from Dusch? which tonearm if you can remember? Did you have any shock absorbing frame? |
Dear Lohanimal,
you're right with your description of our learning path. I wouldn't say I have seen (and listened to) all the "big tables" but many have been in my listening room and all had some positive sides and negative aspects. BTW I do love some other fine tables and still keep them but the EMT is the greatist artist among them. Yes, it is timing, focus and much more the ability to transport the dynamics. I don't mean the typical pressure some idlers are very typical of and do impress more by dynamics than by musicality. It is the combination of both you may reach whith a well balanced machine like the EMT 927. |
Omsed,
I try to get some better understanding about your position or your preferences as well. You said that "idlers don't impress you anymore" (hope i did not get you wrong here) and you also stated that the Garrard 301 is one of yor likes. As I also believe the Garrard is a good table it lacks some of the qualities of the EMT 927. I did compare both designs (excellent, well serviced units) by using the same SME 3012 (first series) and same carts.
The Goldmund Reference I is also a good table but it does not reach the sound qualities of an EMT 927.
You have heard so many tables. It is fun discussing the different assessments we all have. I realized that many audiophiles praise Lencos or prefer special versions like the Shindo. Honestly while I listened to some good Lencos, also rebuild versions of Oma etc. they all have something and they play music in a very dynamic and soemhow attractive way.
Returning from the EMT I usually miss the balance and the smoothness paired with pressure and strenght of these idler designs. |
At Munich High End I have listened to the TechDas for the first time many people talk about at the moment. This might be one of the interesting modern designs. It is also compared with the Caliburn/Criterion of Continuum as a high quality phono product. Nevertheless I am not sure what it additionally offers to me in comparison to my Micro SX 8000 II.
If you compare sound quality/ prices of the older designs with the modern designs you will agree with me that an EMT 927 beats them all... :-) |
Omsed,
agree with you on your experience-description. Of course the topic is very complex and it is also a matter of personal preferences.
You're right when stating there are so many modern and rebuilt TTs of over 10.000 out there which are not worth the money at all. Nevertheless these designs sometimes reach a kind of hardcore group defending the product after their shopping tour like following a church curriculum. This is not my philosophy and also not my experience.
What I wanted to express - and of course I am bit provoking - that having seen so many designs I am really surprised of the qualities of the EMT. This is not an assessment of the moment. Much more this table keeps me captured.
A good 301 or Lenco is as nice as I described it. But it doesn't give me the kick - which is also a very personal assessment.
The Forum community comprises many different groups, not everyone has seen so many tables like you and me and we might get tired reading one and one and another thread about "the same modern 10.000 table". As we also need to understand one has to make his own experiences as we all did it is my wish that people start going on their individual "table journey" rather than believing and defending their 10.000 table for the next 40 years. |
Tbg,
do you have a problem, you don't have to participate if you are finished?
thanks |
Peterayer,
I mean by sound quality also in comparison with other idlers like Garrard and Lencos. I know my experience might raise resistance by 301 and Lenco owners like Tbg but why not express one's opinion clearly.
On top of that if you compare prices of the (so called) Top-class TTs like Caliburn or TechDas or some others with a also expensive 927 you will end up with a kind of bargain (not really, is still a lot of money). |
Raul, you may have made lots of experiences when testing audio items as nearly we all did. As I learned now you are looking for a kind of retreat not buying any (in your language AHEE or distortion units) new audio gear except of used and unused MMs. I really do understand that someone switches from transistor to tube design and vice versa depending on his system and the other relevant units. In your words you left all these experimental stages and reached audiophile nirvana which we all of the AHEE community will never reach as we live in a distorted, industry & reviewer manipulated environment.
Okay got it.
On the other hand to convince audiophiles having been caught in the cage of distortion and AHEE you should describe what steps are necessary to reach your nirvana or guru level. I can follow your criticism which you constantly pursue (but so far do not share). But why not describe for me and others in positive words how your brave new audio world looks like and which (positive!) attitudes and habits are necessary for becoming a full member of this rare circle.
Pls. don't answer me what I should not (!) do rather than which actions are fundamental for becoming a real undistorted Non-AHEE audiophile.
|
Raul, may i ask you a favor: smoking your digital somewhere else. This is a thread about turntables. This shouldn`t be so difficult to understand and follow. |
Tonywinsc,
you are describing pretty well how you developed through "your audio career". I guess there are some others among us -maybe not writing posts at all, only reading - who couldn't stand anymore the experimentation process when changing gear or adjusting the system. Some of them gave up or went into smaller audio settings or just decided to be fine on a certain level. But there is a number of audio afficiniados still searching for the holy grail.
It might be also related to the age, the period how long you are working on your system, the abiliy coping with frustration, defeats and new beginnings. I don't think people with real ambition gathering here are walking in a shop, fair or platform buying samples of the most expensive stuff and relax for the rest of their life in front of their system. Those guys enjoy some other hobbies much more and come back to their music system very rarely.
The real HighEnder believes it is helpful building up knowledge, exchanging with friends and discussing on Audiogon e.g. The real Extremist High Ender has strong beliefs what kind of listening approach is adequate and will lead to listening enjoyment. It is not about listening at loud or low level - sometimes a very funny labelling of groups happens usually pointing at the "loud listeners" as the deaf or unknowledgable guys - no, it is more about natural sound, in my universum it comes with a profound bass related (!) to the music, drive but also a kind of airiness. I also prefer a good resolution (not necessarily High Resolution at all times) rather than only mid level frequencies.
I am not sure if someone not having really listened to one's system is able to draw conclusions like "that must sound distorted or not". But we all usually do this when looking at images of other friends' systems. For me the biggest jump forward in developing my listening mode came when I was exchanging ideas and views in situ - which means with experienced guys in my listening room. Of yourse you need to bring along a kind of learning readiness doing so. If you claim you are the biggest boy of all and your system is the greatest achievment on earth you will not suceed with my approach and experiences in the last years.
Nevertheless you may come to the point in one's audio career where not much is going forward anymore. Either you need to implement a complete change like "from transistors to tubes or vice versa" or "from less efficient speakers to very efficient horn speaker systems or vice versa" or from "MM to MC or vice versa" etc. or you are concentrating on room improvements or so called voodo accessories. The field is very wide for spending energy and money, especially in the analogue arena.
Some among us have finally reached at Nirvana or some similar Happiness, being absolutely satisfied with all their successful efforts. Is this the basis or motivation for moving out to the world showing and talking about their joy. Maybe yes! Are they right I don't know? Does it help others - maybe yes or no. Some among us are warning their comrades about the bad influences of the industry, reviewers and some other temporary fashions in the audio world. On top of that some believe in completely different audio philosophies as e.g.Raul seems to do right now.
Is this helpful, yes and no. Yes because we should never believe having reached some level keeps us in a position not listening to critical arguments. No because philosophies of denial and intolerance to others' different approaches (sometimes with personal implications) esablishe no solid bases for a positive audio adventure.
Tonywinsc - the times may have changed. Instead going to dealers looking around at new gear or installations (I know how it was :-) we are visiting audio friends learning from their experiences. It is sometimes a more complex and time consuming activity especially when you are visiting cross-border. I for myself will be in Paris next week listening to a completely newbuild Western Electric 12a installation. Is it for me? I don't know and I do not care about, I certainly will enjoy and learn. |
I just listened to Charlie Mariano and Dieter Ilg - Goodbuy Pork Pie Hat. If you ever have the chance listening to this direct to the cutter head mastered record by sommelier du son you may realize what good music means.
Charlie tells us the story of Lester on the sax. He tells the story of all great saxophonists. Also his own.
what a pitty he left us in 2009 |
Thanks Peter. Coming back to the thread' s topic after we all have mirrored ourselves as poets .
I read EMT is like climbing the Everest? Perhaps....Emt made all their products to make money. Selling in a competitive market....so how to succeed in a competitive BtoB market? Two ways... Low price or innovation/high quality....Emt took the high quality innovative
route in line with their ethics and German culture. So the Emt is good
because it had to be not because they wanted it to be....in the end they
went under because the market changed. Climbing the Everest is not about money nor is it a BtoB market...it is about personal achievement or ego......
All mirrors have two side!
|
Ecir38, I did at the High End Munich show 2012 in connection with the Silbatone Western Electric show. It was very impressing! Maybe a somehow underrated table. |
I just got in touch with another wonderful idler, the Pierre Clement. Does anyone have experiences with this quite rare table. Would be fun running it again the EMT 927. |
Tbg, if you have a close look at the technology, the design and the build quality of the EMT 927 you will discover quickly why it is not made anymore or why no one copied it. I recommend looking at one or even better listening to one if you have the chance.
Dkarmeli agree with your assessment - of course :-) |
Dkarmeli,
When Jonathan informed us on Agon some time ago about the arriving Airforce One I was pretty curious comparing it with my MS SX 8000 II. I saw the New Micro Seiki design at Highend 2012 in Munich the first time and got dissapointed about some functions and the plastique appearance on some parts. In the meantime they have improved it. I had the Graham Phantom which I had mounted also on my Micro. It is a very good arm, nevertheless I prefer 12" or 14" designs with SME headshells.
Some of my friends asked me if I would go for an Airforce? I told them "why should I invest 100 bucks when I can get the same quality and sound for 30 bucks"? - the price you may get a very good MK II in 8/10 condition with matching air base and parts etc. |
Mosin,
Jean did a brilliant project when restoring the double deck. In case of the motor it is an over dimesioned design of fully industrial production at a specialized German motor producer. You see similar "guys" in the Studer C37, very heavy and very stable, these units will survive us! When the 927 motor is running and you are going close by with you ear you may hear a typical sound. |
Mosin,
I agree with you on the usage of the term neutral. This seems to be to most often abused expression in High End. People were educated going for a neutral (= no influences of any part of the TT in comparison to the original recording) reproduction. The term itself is a contradiction. But in man's history everyone was looking for the stone of wisdom and some church bishops developed rules and everyone followed. Followers have an easy job just repeating this formula all the time giving themselves a kind of wisdom.
Of course we know that the world is colorful and that even the quality of master tape recordings depends on the engineer's carefully designed set up as well as the capabilities of the musicians and the room. Whoever has visited different recording studios knows that the term neutral is complete bullshit. I understand that people are always on the road asking for traffic signs, guide lines and reglementation - also on audio.
Nevertheless one may argue if we cannot set up a standard in recording we need to agree on a standard in reproduction and this one we may call neutral.Following this reaching the highest standard in reproduction is a 1:1 copy delivered by the turntable. All small deviations caused by the drive, tonearm, cartridge etc. are not allowed. What you need to do is owning the master tape or at least a 1st copy tape and compare it with the turntable's result. I sometimes do it with my Reel to Reels just to get an idea of the turntables signature which all have!
Doing this I have found out that neutrality is a nice theoretical formula. People hunting for this might believe they are on the right track but the reality shows a different picture. Usually the ones being happy with the sound at home are those who know about the signature of their reproducing machines and do like this. It seems to me that more often unhappy people are going on the neverending quest for something neutral - my god there must be a unit providing this and who is not seeking a neutral reproduction cannot be a musical expert at all |
Mosin,
why the hell is your Saskia II so expensive. I listened to a very well equiped Anatase turntable at RMAF 2011 and got excited about the Lenco's abilities. Nevertheless I went into other adventures later on also because the owner of OMA wasn't really flexible from my point of view (not really regarding money). I always made good experience with the material slate and the idler drive principle.
So what is so unique making your Saskia II five times as expensive than an Anatase? |
Peter,
I tested the R 80 with the Timeline. The table is about 60 cm away from the wall where the red point is keeping in a stable position. My motor management is controlled by the Dusch Multiconverter DU 937 which allows a felt brake compensation and vari-speed. |
Mosin,
Understand. Hope I can make it this year to Denver again. Would be my third visit. In case I let you know. Looking forward to our exchange. Thanks for the offer sharing information this way.
Eckart |
Peter,
did you read my post on the Timeline measurement? |
Yes Peter, the R 80 is the preversion of the 927, about 66 units were built so it is said. They all differ a little on small design parts. They usually don't carry a lamp on the left side. The motor management I am using is not the standard 927 one.
Mr. Dusch, a former engineer at EMT developed a separate motor management system for the 927. This I am using. Btw he runs his own business and web site now. |
Raul,
you may use many different ways to show that you cannot like a turntable you have never listened to, either if you pull the measurement card or comparison with digital or whatever. I strongly recommend to you listening to such a table and come back sharing your impressions, not repeating your speculations all the time. |
Studer C37 and Studer A820 were not designed for audiophiles as the EMT 927 was not too. I guess Timetel the P3 had a professional background as well? Because of this fact were (are!) these machines not audiophile? I do not understand this logic!
Look at the materials used some 50-60 years ago. Do we use pure copper today, I mean not of any recycled resources and are we usually wiring transformators by hand and with an eye on the distances between the wires? Vintage is not good because it is vintage, professional studio machines are not bad because they were not made for us audiophiles. |
Some people have had all those exotic cars and ended up riding a bicycle. Not because they have to but because they want to, some ride the bicycle and just look at those cars in the garage driving to work in modern car meeting latest technologies.
Some people here have the highest level audio gear on the planet setup by the best technicians in dedicated rooms with the finest records you can imagine....yet they still enjoy and appreciate facets from older and so called outdated gear and enjoy talking about that also.
Giving ones opinions from specifications is somewhat like reading about a speech, happens to be that some people actually get to listen to the speech that is deemed better.
Some contributors here have heard the best turntables and the "outdated" ones and this a/b. The readers of this thread will decide themselves who have that experience. They may inevitably pass the contribution of those that base their input on preconceived ideas and speculation. |
Peter,
having had some funny deja vus on audio gear I got to hear in the past from one side "never go for an idler, they rumble and cannot precisely follow the required speed".
I made my own experiences and did not rely on these statements or war stories derived from measurement reports, reviews etc. but not from one's own listening sessions.
Nevertheless I like to proove my positive impression (if this is the case) and the put hypotheses what really makes this good sound? Therefore I started this thread - and yeah I got some very good answers, objective facts and subjective statements. I also like a good discussion and arguments against my position or impression of a unit's capabilities. This is crucial for a good thread.
I would never be satisfied building up a collection of 2nd or 3rd hand opinions without looking for a chance testing or at least listening to a unit.
The more I get sceptical of the virtues of a table e.g. the more I need to check it in reality. I always wonder why audio friends keep their comfortable seat behind the fire place...
I am convinced that our brain has many filters in order to, first, protect us, and then to adapt the incoming information for a more easy processing. Maybe this is one reason why "we don't conquer the world on reality checks" . what a pitty! |
Peter, agree! In the beginning of the thread Tbg stated "its now all said in the thread" .How wrong one can be :-)
Dkarmeli, I have both platters, currently using the glass platter which is not made of pure glass, coming with a special rubber layer on top.
I agree completely with you on the difference in sound of the 927 and the MS 8000, couldn`t describe it better.
Regarding the Continuum I have a different opinion than most show session results would lead to. My Criterion running with a Cobra arm and the Goldfinger v2 is a serious contender to the previous mentioned ones. Especially when matched with a perfect aligned Boulder 2008 phono stage (not easy to configurate this machine precisely). |
Dkarmeli,
I got my R 80 with the glass platter and went then for the felt platter because a friend of mine exactely described what you realized.
my system is a very humble one: ARC 40 preamp and EMT JPA66 preamp (also phono), Wavac HE 833 II amps, Bavarian Voice speakers (5 way horn system plus Subs, TAD drivers and SupraVox fieldcoil). different tables, phono pres (Zanden, Boulder, Kondo, EMT), SUTs (also WE618) and all what you need to put into arms ...
on digital dCS, Accuphase, Wadia and Esoteric.
When I returned from Tokyo I realised a dream I always had, building a listening room. Maybe this project became more important for me than single audio units - the planning phase took me on a two years trip and I learned a lot about room acoustics. |
Dear Lewm,
the Boulder 2008 phonostage comes with personality cards for the cartridge set up. The cards serve two functions - switches to set the electronics for the type of cartridge used at the input, and places to solder the custom load termination resistor and capacitor. The cards provide also a Demag function.
I am using Vishay resistors. The perfect and ideal matching cartridge loading - as I have found out - is quite a busy job. I am pretty sure that most users only go for the shipped cards. This is what I also learned from the reviews :-)
I also pretty much enjoy having installed two additional equalization cards carrying two more equalization curves, so now providing RIAA, EMI and Columbia.
btw Mike Fremer was right with his assessment on this unit despite some users prefer tubed phono stages. |
Thanks Dkarmeli! Maybe one day I will write a bit more about the Vox and its development. |
Dkarmeli,
just an excursion, when you read the article about the Atomic clock you may get an insight when digital really does sound great, the Dac in master mode and the word clockings steered by the Rubidium clock. What a difference! but these are details of a different world which is also very fascinating.
I understand why most analogue friends don't believe in the quality of digital reproduction. Nevertheless if you ever get deep into it the dCS stack it is an overwhelming alternative, or not? |
Dkarmeli,
only the BV's image appears similar to Kevins Vox Olympian. Ingredients, size, X-over and sub integration are completely different. But on this later more. I see you have a pretty good understanding of a good listening room. I also got the experience when travelling around the US (but not only here) that the room itself seems of minor importance to the good audiophile guys.
Nevertheless it is always an arangement you are doing with your family and your life style. So I do understand.
I sold my Micro Seiki SX 8000 II last month. It will arrive very soon on your continent. I loved this machine, was the first owner and it is a supreme table some even try to copy today. I did some tunings on my blue micro which brings it somehow in the same musicality.
Regarding the Fidelity Research 66s I think we have two groups of Audiophiles. Those who know this arm pretty well, who are owning the matching table and wo did build it up perfectly and some others - they might outnumber the first group. Anyway thanks for your good hints and options you are describing. I will take them into consideration. |
Dear Kmccarty,
yes,I did it exactely this way, soldered the resistors and tested, took them out and changed resistors. Following more or less the formula I ended up for instance for the Goldfinger v2 in the Cobra arm (coupled by XLR) with a 850 ohm Vishay resistor. This seems to be a perfect match for the Boulder.
If you have many personality cards you can easily start a try out approach, going around the formula prescriptions.
in this case soldering is really the way to go. Which carts are you running? Maybe I am able to give some hints from my tests. Good luck! |
Dkarmeli,
i respect very much your position on analogue vs. digital - and yes here we may have different experiences, especially when it comes to a dCS chain with a perfect clocking system and the DAC set to master function. Regarding the system's capabilities you're writing that every component has an impact on each other. Very true! In a complex system like mine it is a challenge you have to deal with.
I assume you know very well that the power supply for a dedicated listening room needs to be tackled very carefully. I therefore not only built up a complete separate current system for my listening room (with a remote fuse block) but also divided my system's power supplies by three diffferent big lines. The digital system runs to one, the amplification to another one and all other front end units like anlogue to the third one. These lines run in encapsulated pipe tunnels inside of the concrete ceiling from the fuse block in another room to the specific three outlet positions for the system. all distributions within one line will never interact with those of the other lines.
Regarding room tuning I avoided using any fixed installations other than a high record board on the one long side and a high CD board on the other long side. the rear wall is covered by a high book shelf. This way reflections are managed and deleted in a very natural way. You see no glass surfaces in this room other than a skylight area at the rear side, and a small window at the right long side's front which can be covered by an automatic curtain.
Controlling the first reflections in front of the system a special suspended wooden ceiling with a complex internal structure not allowing building up running waves is mounted. Also frequency related dispensers are used at the front ceiling. These are used on the bases of measurements taken and carefully placed. That's all. I think not so different to your overall philosophy.
Regarding the clocking system of the dCS chain comprising the dCS clock as well as the Rubidium clock this is not tweaking how you call it. I look at it as the technicians at dCS do as well as an optimizing approach to a nearly jitter free transportation of the digital signal. Of course I agree it may sound from my description like I am doing a big experiment on certain units of this chain which obviously is the case somehow. btw. i do this in analogue chains with its many variables as well. i am just curious finding out the interaction of parts of a system trying isolating the weak points/parts.
From your understanding of the digital medium I get the impression you will not enter this arena at all which is in line with your philosophy. Nothing wrong about this. From my point of view it is worth engaging with CDs and SACDs. |
Dkarmeli,
I am sure you are succesfully building up your room. This is a wonderful stage in the life of an audio guy. Maybe it will never end - with the right instruments you already have, so many similarities that I really cannot understand what happened to you on the digital side. But that's another story. The Scarlatti Transport is not really Scheisse, maybe you are pointing to the former Verdi Philipps drives. I see you know already the most important words in this language. When my wife learned German some 30 years ago she started with all these expressions as she got told its a kind of survival kit.
I agree the dCS stack is not easy boosting up to its optimum. I think many users out there don't know all about the capabilities of these machines. its quite a versatile system and it needs to be configured carefully, especially when you are using a masterclock (which you should!), also adding dither and on top maybe a rubidium clock in combination. The result then has nothing to do with a one box digital machine also not with the Meitners.
You feel very much having fallen onto the analog planet. btw nothing else could satisfy me as an analog afficionado.
I see you are preparing your FR-66s developing its virtues and blossoming to full scale. This is the job to do on the blue micro which also can be tuned ! I think I will write something about the speakers in the next time and let you know. Currently I am dealing with Neumann devices.
I hope its not your last post here as you have shown profound knowledge in the thread's topic and I enjoyed it very much exchanging ideas and critical remarks with you and others.
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