is audiogon good for the audio industry or bad?

The only reason I would go into a dealer now would be to see what a speaker looks like in real life. I wouldn't even ask to hear it.
03-02-09: Ejlif

LOL, if all the B&M stores go by the wayside you will still be able to look at a picture in a Magazine. LOL, might even have a scratch and sniff feature someday.....

I wish there was a 'used' government I could purchase at half price, like most of the audio equipment I have purchased used, some from B&M dealers. Just as a new car is the worst economic way to purchase a car, so is the new piece of audio equipment. Wait, let it go into the 'used' market. I don't feel bad about behaving the way I do, just like the used car market supports the new car market, in audio it is no different.
03-02-09: Buconero117

But what if everyone thought the same as you? I guess the used market would continue to feed on itself. The used, used, aftermarket, LOL.
Of course the manufactures would eventually go out of business. Even if all the manufactures have their products made in China they will still go out of business if there are no buyers for their product.

Viridian and Jea48 have hit the nail on the head. While it's a free market, if a large percentage of equipment purchases were of used products instead of new, it could be impossible for many high end companies (manufacturers, distributors, and dealers) to survive. It's a self fulfilling prophesy. Buying used is okay, as long as you accept that often there is no warranty, the cosmetic condition most often is less than perfect, the product may have been superseded by a more recent version or model with better performance, and most importantly an audition especially in your own system may not be possible. As a dealer I make every effort to demonstrate current products meaningfully, loaning out equipment to customers for home trial, supporting the products after the sale, giving generous trade-in allowances and fair prices. I may be an exception among retailers, but maybe that's because I was an audiophile for 30 years before becoming a dealer. I may be the antithesis of what Scpetscott describes, where he feels pressured to make snap decisions in a matter of minutes. At the same time most people are not going to use your resources by coming for a demo and then buying online. The dealer who is little more than a box mover is going to suffer the most, I think deservedly so. My clients value the knowledge, advice, and customer service I provide for long term satisfaction. I have traveled long distances to deliver and set up equipment to ensure it performs optimally as expected and will continue to do so. I do my utmost to bring significant value to each and every transaction.

Just as you wouldn't buy a car you don't know about except for pictures and specifications without a test drive, why would you risk doing so with mail order and online retailers for significant audio purchases? The idea of sending something back if you don't like it is bogus, because statistics show a lot of people won't even if they don't like it. I hear that all the time. Likewise, the idea of buying something used with the intent of reselling it for about what you paid if you don't like it is like throwing darts and is a waste of time. I see some people changing their equipment very frequently, buying stuff unheard and unseen, making buying decisions because they read something in a magazine or something online posted by people whose identities and allegiances are unknown. After a while you say what's the point. Life is too short.

No matter where you are, my advice as a longtime consumer is find a retailer who will take the time to explain and demonstrate the equipment that interests you, will let you try it at home, will set up the equipment you purchase in your home, will help you long after the sale, and has prices that are mutually fair. If you do not intend to do business or are considering buying used, be up front with the dealer. I respect people's purchasing decisions and welcome their curiosity regardless but expect to be treated in kind.

There are at least two distinct Audiophile groups. One is an interactive group who might include DIY, long time music lovers, long time audio junkies, new people who aspire to be one of the above. The common thread is we all are “looking, searching, compulsively addicted” to “finding” the perfect sound.

We try equipment, we take advice, we give more advice, we try other stuff, and we even force our families to adapt to our needs. We hide our latest purchases in the closet until “the wife” is away. We plan our schedules to intercept those purchases before they arrive. We always come clean with the real price, out loud to our friends “yea, I picked up this $20,000 amp on the Gon for $1200!” The code amongst us is to never use real numbers, in the prior instance, $1200 is code for $12,000. Oh and power cords never cost more the $75!

This group as described above might sound familiar. THEY ARE US! And we love them all dearly. These people research, shop on line with little regard for security, share their latest discovery, often as THE BEST must have. We defend our views with passion and know we are right, until the next purchase, then we, and only we discover something even BETTER! Yes we are the Audiogon community, and we love our friends who share this addiction.

The other group is the B&M guys. This is doctor uptight, home from twelve hours of brain surgery. Very uptight, very stressed and VERY wealthy. Yes his collage tuition is long paid off, his home is well stocked with all his family needs, and he needs a place to escape. He discovered music as a teen, but never took the drugs required to fully understand its meaning. He went off to collage, and never looked back. Then he was at a friend’s house for a cocktail party. He discovered a very impressive sound system and asked where he might find the same. The next week he entered the B&M store, claimed he needed the “BEST” sounding system they had, wanted it delivered to his home and set up properly. When asked if he wished to hear it first, the doctor replied, “oh yea, but I only have a minute.”

OK, I know I over amplified that, but these people do exist. Actually enough of them to keep a couple well stocked stores open in each community of a couple million people. Fact is we the Audiogoners might actually be the minority here, again. I have a feeling the “I just want the best sound where I can escape from my high pressure life” guy is more common than we think. These guys would never discover Audiogon for they do not seek knowledge or bargains. As unlikely that the B$M buyer will find Audiogon, the typical A’goner would hardly plunk down full price for gear he knows he can find discounted from someone.

The lose to the A’goner is the local help and service. Of course this too is available on line, and from a far greater community of offerings. So what we lose is the chance to hear what ever system they are selling. For me, I have never walked into a store and seen the system I would choose to put together. They are restricted by who they represent. On Audiogon I am free to learn, test and purchase every brand on the planet! This for the Audiogoner is heaven, to the doctor above, it might well be hell.

Essentialaudio, please see this in the light it was written. Your points are excellent, and I only wish you were in my community...

Sorry if it's already been said, did not read all the replies. I think it's definitely not bad. It's a community that perpetuates people's interests in audio equipment and also attracts others to the hobby. I remember a study at the height of the illegal music download hype (actually, that is still going on, isn't it?) showing that songs heavily trafficked illegally online actually had their legal sale increase, not decrease as a consequence. Such studies are very hard to do, yes, and prone to all sorts of errors, but it does make sense that this type on online trading community works to some extent as advertisement and popularization for the industry.

I would happily spend my money at Essential Audio. I just spent 2000 at Magnolia hifi in Los Angeles. One point that I was trying to make is shops should be welcoming us into their doors as foot traffic is a good thing. We may not spend money every time we go into their doors but we do spend money. And of course I agree that nobody should be wasting people's time. If you are buying off the used market, there is much advice and reviews to be had on line as well. Maybe audio shops should have a button at the front door that says, "I am an audiophile, please be kind." lol