In defense of quantum products.

Sabai,

I never said products advertised as "quantum" cannot work to improve or even just make a difference in sound quality. In fact, I suspect many can and do. I know for a fact that Nordost products are capable of sounding fabulous. I have read some good things from Synergistic research that I like.

But I would question the value proposition of these kinds of products in general perhaps because along with the R&D and innovation (assuming legit) typically comes a price tag.

These products tend to be pretty expensive usually from what I have seen, right?

I wonder if similar results might have been achieved with more traditional smarts using other products that may not be as flashy or expensive (in general) but apply solid, proven, and well understood principles of design properly otherwise.

If its "quantum" forged, affordable, and the value proposition is there, and it sounds good, then I would find little to criticize, although personally I seldom buy a product at any cost based on nebulous principles the application of which to the task at hand I cannot understand. But that's just me.

High end audio is a natural playing field for marketing technological innovations that "push the edge" to potential customers that are willing to pay for "the best". I am naturally skeptical of "innovative" and expensive technologies that rely solely on high end audio consumers for their existence.

Mapman, I agree that the price tag that accompanies many of these products is high. Since many people are able to audition products before buying (Synergistic Research has a program for this) there is virtually no risk in auditioning to see if their "nebulous principles" translate into nebulous products.

I believe that some of the explanations are nebulous -- not the principles -- because I have heard what some of these products can do. And what they can do is often very impressive in my system, and in others' as well.

Yes, it is always possible that similar results may be obtained less expensively. I think the best way to go about this is to wait till the heat is off and they bring out Mark II and Mark III. Then the earlier versions can often be had at a reasonable price. And if you have already auditioned what you are looking for you can do well.

Manufacturers' explanations never deter me. I really don't care what they say. Every manufacturer touts their own products. I am buying sound, not explanations. I look for sonic results. That's all that matters to me.

If all the high priced tweeks out there really worked why don't companies just take a 10.00 non refundable deposit, let the customer try it out, and send it back if it doesn't really work. People that pay lots of money for something will never admit to themselves that they were taken. Either you have a good system, or you don't. Why pay more for wires and tweeks than your entire system costs?

Just because a product has quantum in its name doesn't mean its design has anything remotely to do with quantum theory. It's a term anyone can appropriate for marketing impact, like Extreme or Ultra or Turbo. Personally, whenever I see quantum -- or better yet, Tesla -- invoked in high-end audio, my BS detector goes off.

I don't see any resolution to this argument. As so often on Audiogon and other forums, it comes down to one opinion over another. You can legitimately argue as to the scientific validity of a companies claims and I certainly am not qualified to comment on the validity. I have a tenuous, non scientific understanding of Quantum mechanics, string theory etc and I suspect that is true for most of us.

Whether the "science" seems Kosher, is certainly relevant to whether it works or not, but not a deal breaker. I believe the Nordost QB4 works in my system and 2 works better than one. To my ears, the benefit is instantly recognisable and worth the cost. The cost to me was half price, second hand. I think it worth that, not the current full price, which seems far to high for the material content of the product. You can argue I am fooling myself, but it's all rather futile. The only way is to get a loaner or by second hand, so you can sell on, hopefully at no loss and try yourself